a752@mindlink.UUCP (Bruce Dunn) (08/27/90)
> jaz@icd.ab.com writes: > I paid $300 extra to get the "Super-VGA" card and multi-sync > monitor for my system. I finally received the Windows 3 driver > in the mail the other day and sprinted up to my computer room > to install it. (I've had the machine for 2 weeks and had never > run it in Hi-Rez mode). Much to my chagrin, I discovered that > the flickering I encountered running in this mode was unbelievable. > > I had read that you would encounter "slight" flickering when > running an interlaced monitor and card in this mode but did not > think it would be this bad. > > 1) How can anyone use this combination? > 2) Are some monitor / card combos worse than others ? > 3) Are people spending the extra money to buy non-interlaced ? > 4) Is it worth having 1024x768 on a 13" monitor in the first place ? I am using an ATI VGA WONDER card with a Seiko CM1430 monitor which uses a Sony Triniton tube. I can detect absolutely no flicker when using interlaced 1024x768. This probably holds true for the newer Seiko 1440 monitor. I suspect that the secret is in the phosphor persistance more than anything else. -- Bruce Dunn Vancouver, Canada a752@mindlink.UUCP
jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) (08/28/90)
I paid $300 extra to get the "Super-VGA" card and multi-sync monitor for my system. I finally received the Windows 3 driver in the mail the other day and sprinted up to my computer room to install it. (I've had the machine for 2 weeks and had never run it in Hi-Rez mode). Much to my chagrin, I discovered that the flickering I encountered running in this mode was unbelievable. I had read that you would encounter "slight" flickering when running an interlaced monitor and card in this mode but did not think it would be this bad. 1) How can anyone use this combination? 2) Are some monitor / card combos worse than others ? 3) Are people spending the extra money to buy non-interlaced ? 4) Is it worth having 1024x768 on a 13" monitor in the first place ? Thanks, I know that technically, I'm posting to the wrong newsgroup, but I thought maybe lots of people would be in the same boat. -jaz
rmurtha@lotus.com (Rob Murtha - Lotus) (08/28/90)
From article <2955@mindlink.UUCP>, by a752@mindlink.UUCP (Bruce Dunn): >> jaz@icd.ab.com writes: >> I paid $300 extra to get the "Super-VGA" card and multi-sync >> monitor for my system. I finally received the Windows 3 driver >> in the mail the other day and sprinted up to my computer room >> to install it. (I've had the machine for 2 weeks and had never >> run it in Hi-Rez mode). Much to my chagrin, I discovered that >> the flickering I encountered running in this mode was unbelievable. >> >> I had read that you would encounter "slight" flickering when >> running an interlaced monitor and card in this mode but did not >> think it would be this bad. >> One way to reduce the flicker especially around the scroll bars is to change the colors from hatch patters to solids. Rob Murtha rmurtha@lotus.com
rommel@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Kai-Uwe Rommel) (08/29/90)
In article <1804@abvax.UUCP> jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) writes: >I paid $300 extra to get the "Super-VGA" card and multi-sync >monitor for my system. I finally received the Windows 3 driver >in the mail the other day and sprinted up to my computer room >to install it. (I've had the machine for 2 weeks and had never >run it in Hi-Rez mode). Much to my chagrin, I discovered that >the flickering I encountered running in this mode was unbelievable. > >-jaz Flickering does not only depend on interlaced/non-interlaced method but much more on the screen redraw frequency. It should not be below 60Hz. I have a Paradise VGA-1024 and it operates in 1024x768 (interlaced !) with a gray-scale monitor absolute flicker-free. If you move close enough to the display, you can see that once only the odd and then only the even scan lines are painted. But thats not the "flickering" you mean, I assume. The Paradise VGA-1024, for example works with 89Hz (!) repaint frequency in 1024x768 mode. Kai Uwe Rommel -- /* Kai Uwe Rommel * Munich * rommel@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de */
jls@hsv3.UUCP (James Seidman) (08/30/90)
In article <4173@tuminfo1.lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de> rommel@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Kai-Uwe Rommel) writes: >Flickering does not only depend on interlaced/non-interlaced method but >much more on the screen redraw frequency. It should not be below 60Hz. I >have a Paradise VGA-1024 and it operates in 1024x768 (interlaced !) with >a gray-scale monitor absolute flicker-free. If you move close enough to >the display, you can see that once only the odd and then only the even >scan lines are painted. But thats not the "flickering" you mean, I >assume. The Paradise VGA-1024, for example works with 89Hz (!) repaint >frequency in 1024x768 mode. But your redraw rate is effectively half that, i.e. 44.5 Hz. Because of the interlacing, only half of the lines on the screen are drawn on each pass. You card *has* to use at least 89Hz... if it used 60, then it would look about as good as a non-interlaced display running at 30 Hz. That is, terrible. It is true that refresh rate is important. However, most cards which do interlacing run between 88 and 96 Hz. Perhaps more important is the persistance of the phosphor on your screen. That's how IBM gets away with it on their 8514/A... you hook it up to an 8514 monitor, which has *VERY* long persistance phosphor, and you see almost no flicker at all. But hook it up to, say, a Nanao 9070S, and you've got an unusable display. -- Jim Seidman (Drax), the accidental engineer. UUCP: ames!vsi1!headland!jls ARPA: jls%headland.UUCP@ames.nasa.arc.gov
keating@rex.cs.tulane.edu (John W. Keating) (08/30/90)
In article <2955@mindlink.UUCP> a752@mindlink.UUCP (Bruce Dunn) writes: >> jaz@icd.ab.com writes: >> >> I had read that you would encounter "slight" flickering when >> running an interlaced monitor and card in this mode but did not >> think it would be this bad. >> >> 1) How can anyone use this combination? >> 2) Are some monitor / card combos worse than others ? >> 3) Are people spending the extra money to buy non-interlaced ? >> 4) Is it worth having 1024x768 on a 13" monitor in the first place ? > > I am using an ATI VGA WONDER card with a Seiko CM1430 monitor which uses a >Sony Triniton tube. I can detect absolutely no flicker when using interlaced >1024x768. This probably holds true for the newer Seiko 1440 monitor. I >suspect that the secret is in the phosphor persistance more than anything else. I have the 1440 and have no problems with screen flicker... I'm also using the ATI VGAWonder... No problems except for the lack of a Win3 256 color driver... >-- >Bruce Dunn Vancouver, Canada a752@mindlink.UUCP -- ***************************************************************************** * Internet: keating@rex.cs.tulane.edu * and if you said jump in * * * Usenet: ...!pyramid!rex!keating * the river I would * John W. * * Bitnet: CS6HECU@TCSMUSA (caps!!) * because it would probably * Keating * * CI$: 73737,733 * be a good idea. * III * * Flames: /dev/null * -Sinead O'Connor * * *****************************************************************************
pnl@hpfinote.HP.COM (Peter Lim) (08/31/90)
Incidentally, I just tried and have some interesting overservation
with interlacing.
I have ATI VGA Wonder 512K with an EIZO 9xxxS (not sure about the
number but it is the same as a NANAO 9060S). Ran VSETUP to change
monitor types for the VGA Wonder.
When I select NEC 3D. The flickering is quite terrible on 1024x768.
However, when I told the VGA Wonder that the monitor is Seiko CM-1340
(not sure about number again), the flickering is a lot less ! But
I get a much narrower picture ! Still clear and sharp !
So, any idea what's going on ? Definitely this means the Seiko and
the NEC has different horizontal sweep frequencies. BTW, does anyone
know for sure that the Seiko is interlaced ? I thought I heard
somewhere that it is one of the cheapest non-interlaced 1024x768 ??
Regards, ## Life is fast enough as it is ........
Peter Lim. ## .... DON'T PUSH IT !! >>>-------,
########################################### :
E-mail: plim@hpsgwg.HP.COM Snail-mail: Hewlett Packard Singapore, :
Tel: (065)-279-2289 (ICDS, ICS) |
Telnet: 520-2289 1150 Depot Road, __\@/__
... also at: pnl@hpfipnl.HP.COM Singapore 0410. SPLAT !
#include <standard_disclaimer.hpp>my@dtg.nsc.com (Michael Yip) (08/31/90)
How about the NEC 3D monitor? The price of NEC 3D came down a lot and I am planning to purchase one. However, I am afraid that the interlace problem will be very bad. Can anyone comment on the NEC 3D monitor? -- Mike my@dtg.nsc.com
cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gordon Hlavenka) (09/01/90)
>Can anyone comment on the NEC 3D monitor?
I have the 3D here, and it's just so-so. CAD drawings which contain areas
filled with bright white bloom terribly. The memory feature doesn't seem to
work properly, I have to open the door and readjust things before and after
using the 1024X768 mode. This is not such a great bother, though, since the
1024X768 mode flickers so badly that I rarely use it.
I suppose NEC would blame it on my Trident SVGA?
-----------------------------------------------------
Gordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us
Disclaimer: Yeah, I said it. So what?dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (09/03/90)
I also use NEC 3D with generic VGA card (Tseng ET-4000 chips 1 mb on board) when I use hi-rez mode (1024x768x256), It is flickering so bad sometimes! But like you said, after using hi-rez mode I have to adjust the screen Seems to me that the problem is not on your VGA Trident chips -d ludirdja
gds3939@ultb.isc.rit.edu (G.D. Schreiber) (09/03/90)
I have a 386/20 system at home with a 1K VGA(1024 x 768) card(Video 7 w/
512K) and a NEC Multisync 3D monitor. I have absolutely no problem with
this setup. I have used it in all modes(I think) and have not noticed
any flicker.
---
\ _ Gary Schreiber | Kelson Alaric
\ | 241 Oakdale Dr. | Barrony of Thescorre
\| Rochester, NY 1461 | Aethelmearc, EK
EMAIL: gds3939@ritvax.bitnet OR gds3939@vax{a,b,c,d,e}.isc.rit.edu
OR gds3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
OTHER: gds3939@ultb.isc.rit.eduMJB@cup.portal.com (Martin J Brown-Jr) (09/04/90)
I've got an ATI Wonder(+?) running at 1024x768 on a NEC 3d under Windows3.0
and the picture is rock steady with NO flicker at all. On the other hand,
I, also, have a Paradise Professional running at 800x600 on a Mitsubishi
AUM 1381 under Windows3.0 that has a bit of flicker.
BTW, IMHO, the 1024 display on the NEC 3d, while very nice is just too
small. (I have excellent eyesight). I would advise anyone to get the larges
largest display they can afford.
- MJB -
USENET: mjb@cup.portal.comtom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu (Tom Haapanen) (09/04/90)
Gordon Hlavenka <cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us> writes: > I have the 3D here, and it's just so-so. CAD drawings which contain areas > filled with bright white bloom terribly. The memory feature doesn't seem to > work properly, I have to open the door and readjust things before and after > using the 1024X768 mode. This is not such a great bother, though, since the > 1024X768 mode flickers so badly that I rarely use it. Well, *my* 3D is just fine -- but I only use it in 800x600. But in that mode it's steady, it's sharp, it's got great colours, and the memory function works perfectly. Why don't I use 1024x768? Three main reasons: - The 3D is too small for 1024x768 - 1024x768 is too slow -- too many pixels to move around! Yeah, there's some flicker, too, but that wasn't the deciding factor. [ \tom haapanen --- university of waterloo --- tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu ] [ "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
MJB@cup.portal.com (Martin J Brown-Jr) (09/05/90)
er, sorry 'bout that previous post, it shouldn't been in this
collection. :-<
- MJB -
USENET: mjb@cup.portal.comwolfy@usage.csd.unsw.oz.au (Anthony Wolfenden) (09/06/90)
I use an NEC 3D and had lots of problems with my Trident SVGA card. I now use a Tseng card with the 4000 chip (1024 x 768 x 256) and have no problems at all. The flicker is noticable reduced. By that I mean I can bearly notice it.
dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (09/07/90)
>I use an NEC 3D and had lots of problems with my Trident SVGA card. >I now use a Tseng card with the 4000 chip (1024 x 768 x 256) and have >no problems at all. The flicker is noticable reduced. By that I mean > ........................ In previous response I wrote that I have problem (flickering) when running windows 3.0 with Tseng 4000 chips and NEC 3D monitor. I also wrote that it is flickering SOMETIMES. Now I notice that when I run windows 3.0 in Hi-rez (1024x768x256) mode and ENHANCED mode (386) I have problem!. However, if I run in STANDARD MODE OR REAL MODE flickering problem disappear!. Any idea why it is happening? -d ludirdja
korpela@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) (09/13/90)
In article <1804@abvax.UUCP> jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) writes: > >I had read that you would encounter "slight" flickering when >running an interlaced monitor and card in this mode but did not >think it would be this bad. > Are you sure your SVGA card is set up properly? I'm running an ATI 1024VGA in 800 by 600 mode. The results I get depend upon which monitor I have the card set up for. When the card is set up in an inproper mode the flickering is terrible. (Or the picture is squished to 1/2 size) You can try cycling through the various monitors in the setup routines. /\ korpela@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu Internet /__\ rioch BKYAST::KORPELA 42215::KORPELA DecNet / \ of Chaos korpela%bkyast@ucbjade Bitnet (_____________________ <aka Eric Korpela>
jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) (09/13/90)
In article <1990Sep12.170441.20659@agate.berkeley.edu>, korpela@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) writes: > In article <1804@abvax.UUCP> jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) writes: > > > >I had read that you would encounter "slight" flickering when > >running an interlaced monitor and card in this mode but did not > >think it would be this bad. > > > Are you sure your SVGA card is set up properly? I'm running an ATI > 1024VGA in 800 by 600 mode. The results I get depend upon which monitor > I have the card set up for. When the card is set up in an inproper mode > the flickering is terrible. (Or the picture is squished to 1/2 size) > You can try cycling through the various monitors in the setup routines. > I turns out that there is a bug in the beta version of the Tseng driver routines. The flickering occurs when running windows in enhanced mode. If I run windows in standard mode, the flickering is barely noticable. Unfortunately, I like to run MS_DOS in a window, which does not work in standard mode. If anyone knows of a fix to this please let me know ! -jaz