ela@hoxna.UUCP (E.Asbeck) (11/14/84)
This article summarizes the responses to my question about good "sports cars" in the under $14,000 range. First of all, let me thank all of you who responded with car suggestions. Also, thanks to the many, many individules who let me know they didn't appove of my posting the request to net.general. I guess generality is in the eye of the beholder. Before I give a tally of the votes, let me say that we narrowed the field to four cars based on your suggestions, performance reviews, price, reliability, and safety: Pontiac Fiero, Honda Prelude, Mazda RX-7, Toyota Corolla GT-S. After test driving these cars, we decided on the Honda Prelude. It's handling and feel were superior to the Fiero (a real disappointment) and Corolla (not surprising), and about comparable to the RX-7 (a real surprise to me, although the RX-7 shifted very precisely). The Prelude is more elegant, has a real trunk, and is loaded with options (better stereo/cassette deck, sunroof, etc.). Now for the voting: Manufacturer Model Yes No ------------ ----- --- --- Dodge Challenger 2 " Daytona 2 Fiat X1/9 1 Honda Prelude 4 Mazda RX-7 9 1 Nissan 200SX 2 1 Pontiac Fiero 1 5 Renault Fuego Turbo 1 Saab Turbo 1 Toyota Camry 1 " Celica GTS 4 " Corolla GT-S 2 Volvo Turbo 1 VW Rabbit GTI 5 4 Scirroco 1 1 Again, many thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. The complete text of the suggestions is appended below. ---------------- houxf! \ Eric Asbeck AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel ihnp4! hoxna!ela harpo! / ------------------------------begin appendix---------------------------- From houxm!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amd!decwrl!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!godot!ima!inmet!lutton Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 Newsgroups: net.auto Subject: 1Rabbit Gearshift (long, boring) Date: Sun, 28-Oct-84 01:39:14 EST <> I had a problem with my 1981 VW Rabbit (gas, 4-speed manual). It was very difficult to get into first gear. It would tend to go into 3rd instead. Later it got almost impossible. I would have to push the stick down and feel around for first between reverse and third. I asked friends. One said, "All Volkswagens do that. [All Rabbits only or Bugs too?] It is caused by transmission wear and hard braking. The only cure is to rebuild the transmission." [At 20,000 miles? I don't think he knows what he's talking about.] The second friend said, "I don't know, but mine is the same way." The third friend said, "It's just the linkage. There's a little adjustment you can make under the car. You can do it yourself easily." [I change my own oil but I don't mess with critical mechanical linkages.] Finally I took it to the transmission shop. The first time, I left it there for the day and the mechanic tried to fix it by adjusting the linkages. Not much improvement. (No charge either.) (No charge because he wasn't satisfied with the result and didn't want to guarantee it.) So I brought it back for the full treatment. The guy warned me that he would have to take the transmission out if he had to make any repairs it, and it would be very expensive. But as it turned out, he didn't have to. The shift rod and collar were worn. He replaced them and now it works fine. Slides right into gear. $90 for parts and $110 for labor, as opposed to $300 to $700 for taking the transmission out and maybe replacing the big shaft with all the gears on it. Why am I telling you this: Two reasons. 1. If you have a Rabbit you might have the same problem. You should get it fixed as soon as possible. You need first gear to get out of jams. 2. I want to ask the following: Will it happen again in 2 years? Is it really true that all Rabbits do it? If not, why do so many of my acquaintance have the problem? If so, why is it not mentioned in Poor Richard's Rabbit Book? From uucp Wed Oct 31 10:15 EST 1984 >From ark Wed Oct 31 10:16 EST 1984 remote from grigg re: sports car Your list missed the Mazda RX-7, which I would probably pick in preference to any of the above. Also the Volvo Turbo. From: ihnp4!sfmag!lsw Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA09111; 31 Oct 84 12:45:32 CST (Wed) To: ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subj: Plymouth sapporo I have a 1983 Dodge Challenger which is the exact same thing as a Plymouth sapporo. Unfortunately, 1983 was the last year that Mitsubishi made the car. If your interested in used cars, this car may be worth checking into. I've been pretty happy with the car (just problems with the cruise control and right turn signal so far) and I got it fully loaded. It's a pretty sturdy Japanese car that has reasonable handling (tho' it certainly doesn't compare to, say, an AUDI coupe). also a note from ulysses!ucbvax!medin Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 Date: Thu, 1-Nov-84 15:56:45 EST To: hoxna!ela Newsgroups: net.auto Subject: Re: Need advice on a good new sports car Look at the Celica GT. Its fairly cheap, and handles much better than a 200sx, and good gas mileage too! Milo From uucp Fri Nov 2 11:13 EST 1984 >From cbosgd!rbg Fri Nov 2 10:11:41 1984 remote from ihnp4 Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA21932; 2 Nov 84 10:11:41 CST (Fri) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 84 10:09:57 est From: ihnp4!cbosgd!rbg (Richard Goldschmidt) Message-Id: <8411021509.AA24409@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/3.7) id AA24409; Fri, 2 Nov 84 10:09:57 est To: ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car In-Reply-To: your article <375@hoxna.UUCP> I have been considering a new Saab Turbo, but it appears to be out of your price range. You might be able to get a recent model used Nissan 300 ZX for that price. I would be interested in a summary of your responses. Thanks... Rich Goldschmidt {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax,allegra} !cbosgd!rbg From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 14:52 EST 1984 >From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 14:52 EST 1984 forwarded by **RJE** >From turek Fri Nov 2 13:03 CST 1984 remote from ihuxp Eric: Ahh the quest for the perfect sports car.... As you probably know by now it doesn't exist. At least not for less than 20K. I do have a favorite (since I own one) that you might consider: Fiat X1/9. Of course they are now called Bertone X1/9 but the car is identical. Currently Brickland (sp?) imports the car with every option every manufactured by Fiat (AC, PW, Leather Seats, AM/FM/Casette, Paint) and lists for $12,999.999999... sorry, $13K. Information that I have ( I think its pretty good, my wife and I are members of the X1/9 Club of Chicago and we tend to get information 3-6 mos. before its generally know to the public.) indicates that if you can get the salesperson to sharpen their pencil/flair it can be had for $10.5-$11. And there are a few Fiat (82s) X1/9s around without AC, Power Windows, Leather Seats, Super-Duper Paint. 3 members of our club sold their non-fuel injected Xs and bought 82s for 8000 to 8100. My car is an `80 with fuel injection. Details: 2 door with targa top - great summer time motoring! 1.5L 4 cyl, single overhead cam, Bosch Fuel Injection 75 SAE HP @ 5500 RPM, a little weak but with a 7K! red line its OK. 79.2 ft-lbs torque @ 3000 RPM. 5 speed trans, rear wheel drive. 12.2 gal fuel tank 4 wheel disc brakes, McPhearson (sp?) struts, rack-and-pinion steering. Curb weight just under 2200 lbs. What to improve: After we bought the car and joined the X1/9 club of Chicago we decided to TRY autocrossing (single car, timed racing on a parking lot or old airport, over a course defined by pylons [saftey cones]) and I was HOOKED instantly. In the car and the sport. So.... to improve a very well behaved car i added: Front sway bar, a rear bar would also help but would make the car run in a diffent class. With this and below modifications its considered stock. Change 165/70R13 tires to 185/60VR13, bigger road patch and compound. When the shocks died I replaced them with Koni's. They were a little epensive ($80ea) but carry a life-time guarentee (sp? again). Now the car is incredible!!! Corners marked for 15mph can be taken at over 45mph without a sound from the tires. Whats Bad: Size.. its small. I'm 6'2" 220lbs. I don't think anyone bigger could drive the car comfortably. Parts.. Parts have been reasonable to get. We have a good dealer nearby, but tend to be a little expensive. Not as high as Porsche but more than Chevy. And there is always some odd part on back order. Plastic radiator grill was on National back order for 4 months. Summary: Great car for the $.... if you're less than 6'3" Greg Turek ihuxp!turek IW 2D233 X0197 From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 15:04 EST 1984 >From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 15:04 EST 1984 forwarded by **RJE** >From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 15:04 EST 1984 remote from houxf >From sandy Fri Nov 2 12:45 MST 1984 remote from drume Eric-- Re: your search for a sports car: I bought an RX7 last year, & am very happy with it. It cost me 13K including tax, & has everything I thought was worth having. It's the middle model, with A/C. I don't know how much you will be able to deal where you live, but I got them to knock off about 1K. I have had no problems with the car, & find that it performs quite well. It is pretty light, so it tends to slide on ice, but not more so than other light cars. The main drawback has been that I've been stuck at home a couple of times when the snow was deep due to low clearance. I picked the RX7 over some of the other comparable cars because 1) the most car for the money 2) appearance 3) good write-ups in consumer reports 4) good feel/performance 5) plenty of cargo space I liked the 280ZX better, but couldn't justify the extra money. The 200SX was my 2nd choice, but by the time you add on the features you want, it costs as much or more than the RX7. Happy hunting! Enjoy those test drives! --sandy bish, ihnp4!drume!sandy From: ihnp4!uwvax!slana (Charles Slana) Message-Id: <8411042308.AA17583@wisc-crys.arpa> Received: by wisc-crys.arpa; Sun, 4 Nov 84 17:08:04 cst To: ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subject: Sports car opinion. Hi Eric- I read your request in the net.auto newsgroup. Currently, I am an alleged starving grad student without sufficient funds for a classy sports car (I reluctantly admit to driving a used Chevette), but I have been doing quite a bit of researching for that payday when I reap the rewards of higher education. If I had 14 grand to plunk down right now, I would throw it in the general direction of a Toyota Corolla GT-S (that's right, I said COROLLA, not CELICA!). The key to this car is a great little engine Toyota has developed. I, personally, believe turbos are cheap shortcuts to impressive 0-60 times. The GT-S engine is something called the TC-16. I don't claim to be a mechanic, but briefly the TC-16 is a twin-cam, 16 valve, non-turbo four- cylinder engine which develops 112 horsies. Based on the Toyota's rep- utation and the turbo issue, this should be a much more reliable, longer lasting engine than it's Turbo counterparts. Acceleration figures are either impressive or so-so, depending on who you believe- a Road&Track (9/84) article gives a 0-60 time of 10.5 (which is not too impressive, but is actually better than the 10.6 given for the Rabbit GTI), but the Toyota adds claim 8.9 sec for 0-60, and a test in AutoWeek (8/20/84) which quoted the manufacturer's claim said the GT-S felt "every bit that fast, which puts it right next to the Supra in acceleration, well ahead of its natural market enemies like the Rabbit GTI, the 200-SX Turbo, and the Dodge Charger in top speed". (top speed is 115mph.) There is also something that sounds fun to me in having an engine with a red line at 7500 rpm. The autoweek article says that one Toyota design goal was a 0-7500 rpm time of ONE Second, with a computer cutting in at 7600 to prevent over-rev. (I could go on for weeks quoting articles, hopefully you can find a copy of both articles). Of course, the engine only tells a part of the story. This is a rear-wheel drive car (another of my personal beliefs - there are no front- wheel drive True Sports Cars). Transmission is 5-speed manual. The seats are the same as in the Celica GT-S and Supra. AutoWeek says it has "a ride and roadholding that call up the Supra, the Porsche 944, and even the 928S for comparison". Road&Track was a little less overflowing in their praise, but seemed to be impressed with the ride. Now for price - the estimated base price is $10,000 retail. Of course you can really load it for under $14,000. That should probably make it cheaper than the cars you mentioned as possibilities, with the (possible) exception of the GTI ThunderBunny. With the way the demand went on 4-cylinder fieros, and the advance orders already on the V-6, I would be surprised if you could get a stripped down version of the Fiero GT for under 15 (although it does look like a nice car). Of course, the Corolla GT-S may be a little tame for you in numbers and/or appearance (I like the hatchback model). Once again, my personal beliefs come up - I would much rather have a modest looking car with great performance than a fast-looking car with modest performance (I think four-cylinder Firebirds are a sin). Besides, it's a good feeling to shock people at stoplights who are driving a car that LOOKS twice as fast as yours. I'd love to have an old Cosworth Vega for just that purpose. A Jim Knutson posted a response to your query mentioning a 2-seater Toyota was coming out with. That would be the Toyota MR2 (see Road&Track, 11/84). This is a mid-engine 2 seater (remind ya of anything?) which uses the same TC-16 engine I am ga-ga over. It is not yet available in this country, but R&T tests gave it a 0-60 of 8.9sec, and the price in Japan was 7510 base, 8750 as tested (expected $10000 when arrives in US). This is a car with a lot of promise, but it might see skyrocketing prices and short supplies similar to the Fiero last year. Well, I've spouted my opinions. I am looking forward to the day I can put my money where my mouth is. To summarize the articles on the Corolla GT-S, I'd call it "an awfully fun car to drive with a great engine". - Chuck Slana From: ihnp4!ulysses!watmath!utcsrgv!avi (Avi Naiman) Message-Id: <8411041720.AA12314@utcsrgv.UUCP> To: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!cbosgd!cbdkc1!desoto!packard!hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car In-Reply-To: your article <375@hoxna.UUCP> Your best bet in finding a new car in your price range is to look at Consumer Reports. Since I am so good hearted, and extremely intrested in cars, I will quote some of C.U's findings on some of the cars that you are looking at. According to C.U. Report the Pontiac Fiero runs from $7,990 to $10,530 in price. Fuel economy was about average for a small car. Other than that the Fiero was found to be equivalent to "junk food":Tempting to look at, maybe, but empty calories. It looks like a car that might accelerate powerfully, brake on a dime and take hairpin turns in stride. It is none of those things. The Fiero's shifter turns driving into hard labor. The Fiero also does not handle well in emergency maneuvers; its brakes take a long time to bring the car to a controlled stop; and the most important view --to the left rear--is blocked by a wide pillar. Under the Fiero's flash lies neither a practical car nor a car likely to make driving fun. (Consumer Reports, April 1984) Honda Prelude The Prelude was redesigned in late 1983. Our previous tests of this front-wheel-drive model showed it to be a very desirable sporty car. Predicted reliability: much better than average. CU reports more in the September 1984 issue. (Consumer Reports, April 1984) Volkswagen Rabbit GTI 2-door hatchback, $8650 The 1.8 litre Four started and ran very well. Strong acceleration. The 5-speed manual transmission, which has very close ratios, was difficult to shift crisply. This front-wheel-drive model handled exceptionally well. Very comfortable individual front seats. Very good driving position. Very good climate control system. Mpg with 5-speed manual transmission: city,23; expressway, 34. Look for more in the June 1983 issue. (April 1984 issue) Mazda RX7 Ranges in price from $10,370 to $15,270. The RX7 has been Mazda's 2-seat sports car for many years. We tested one in 1980 and found it to be nimble and responsive, as a sports car should. The car has remained largely unchanged since we tested it. Predicted reliability: much better than average. (April 1984) Nissan 200SX Look to Consumer Report issue, September 1984. No info. on the Plymouth Sapporo. Sorry. Mindy Naiman From: ihnp4!ut-sally!harvard!chefitz Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA10485; 3 Nov 84 19:15:18 CST (Sat) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 84 18:49:05 cst Posted-Date: Sat, 3 Nov 84 18:49:05 cst Message-Id: <8411040049.AA07995@ut-sally.ARPA> Received: by ut-sally.ARPA (4.22/4.22) id AA07995; Sat, 3 Nov 84 18:49:05 cst To: hoxna!ela Subject: i'm also interested I'm also planning on buying a new sports car soon. I'd appreciate your sending me some of the mail you will receive. Thanks, Harry Chefitz chefitz@harvard From: ihnp4!drutx!gfs Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA17388; 2 Nov 84 19:59:30 CST (Fri) Re: sports car Apparently-To: !cbosgd!cbdkc1!desoto!packard!hoxna!ela how about the toyota celica- toyota is rated best customer satisfaction by consumer reports- I have been looking around, too - please send me your responses thanks gary at&t is - denver From: ihnp4!druky!ewh Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA14991; 2 Nov 84 18:54:45 CST (Fri) Re: cars; i think the first thing to figure out is whether you want Apparently-To: !hoxna!ela front or rear wheel drive; your list has both as well as the fiero which is rear but mid-engine (right?); in snow country that's a real consideration in my book. my guess would be that the datsun is the lowest maintenance of the lot, but it's rear wd unless they've changed it. the 4 cyl fieros seem to run pretty well, at least in the stop light grand prix... have fun, ernie harkins From: ihnp4!inmet!stern Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA13449; 2 Nov 84 18:17:17 CST (Fri) To: ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subject: Pontiac Fiero Don't buy a Fiero if you want to live through your first 15,000 miles. It is the worst piece of crap to leave Detroit ever, I would say. I do not speak from experience, but rather from the experiences of two friends who have them, and from what I have read in the NY Times, Boston Globe and Consumer Reports. (1) The Fiero was designed by morons. Pontiac wanted to put out a "communter" car, but their marketing ding-dongs decided that a commuter car wouldn't cut it -- so they changed to putting out a "sports" car for the average guy. Great, except they made the designers keep the same deadline, and the result is much hurried engineering. (2) If you are over 5' 4" tall, you won't be able to fit into it to drive. My girlfriend is 5' 5" and she can't drive one without feeling pain (3) The engine is mid-mounted, which is deadly in a car that light. The body is all fiberglass, decreasing the weight of the car. Problem: take a curve in wet weather and you will spin. The car has an incredibly low moment of inertia (all the weight in the middle, as opposed to on the ends). (4) The turning radius is somewhere between 42 and 45 feet!! Come on, my parents station wagon can turn in 40 feet -- a car that size should be able to do a circle in 32 feet. This brings up the handling crisis: try swerving in a hurry -- you can't because the car (ie the wheels) just don't turn enough. (5) You can't see out the back, and the glove compartment is this silly box in between the front (and only) seats. Ugh. (6) The body is made up of as few panels as possible. The rear fenders and the piece that goes over the rear window are all *one* body panel -- not good for a fiber car, since if you crack a fender, you have to replace the whole damn panel (at somewhere near $1,000-$1,500). My friend had hers 3 months, got bumped (not hit, just tapped, as happens in Boston), and cracked the rear left fender -- and now she has to replace the whole body panel. She's saving her money. I would suggest a Toyota Celica/Toyota Supra, unless you don't like rice burners. I have a Celica and love it. The Supra is much more sporty, and is one hell of a performance car (2.4 or 2.8 litres, fuel injection, looks nice, top cruising speed of about 120 MPH). You can dig up a new Celica for $12,000, loaded. You could get a Celica ST (sportier version) for $13,000 if you talk enough turkey. Good luck. These views are entirely my own, and not necessarily those of Intermetrics, my friends, my family, or Pontiac. --Hal Stern Intermetrics, Inc ihnp4!inmet!stern From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 18:25 EST 1984 >From **RJE** Fri Nov 2 18:25 EST 1984 forwarded by **RJE** >From rovi Fri Nov 2 16:18 MST 1984 remote from druxp To: hoxna!ela Subject: RX7 owners' comment. I'm responding to your request for information on sports cars for 13k & under. Well, the only thing I could come up with, when I was shopping around, was a RX7. You could get a new RX7 for 13k , top of the line will run almost 16k without a leather interior or automatic transmission. Dollar for dollar, the RX7 is the best sport's car available for under 20k. From uucp Mon Nov 5 10:52 EST 1984 >From rlf 5 Nov 1984 9:44 EST remote from hocst FROM: r.l.fletcher TO: hoxna!ela DATE: 5 Nov 1984 9:44 EST SUBJECT: Response to Sports Car Quest Things I have heard: Fiero - Fast but has handling problems I'm told. Honda Prelude - Personally I'd never own a honda car. Rabbit GTI - affirmative on the maintenance problems. Mazda RX7 - Have heard nothing but good about the Mazda but I shy away from any car I cant fix myself. (rotary) Nissan 200SX - Has become a beautiful car in 84 but the road tests indicate it is not as fast (acceleration-wise) as most. This includes comparing the turbo version with other turbo cars(Laser and Starion) Plymouth Sapporo/Dodge Challenger 2 years ago I went through the same process, I bought the 82 Challenger. Its standard items included: Power Steering Power Brakes 5 Spd. Manual 2.6 Liter 4 cyl. 98 hp AM/FM stereo with 4 speakers Remote mirrors 6 way adjustable bucket seats with lumbar support (driver side) remote hood + trunk + gas releases Adjustable steering column Full Instrumentation Seperate Valet key (wont open trunk and glove box) Rear window defogger Under seat storage compartments Fully carpeted interior Options Road Wheel Package - cast aluminum wheels, 4 wheel discs, RWL tires $289.00 A/C - $600.00 Power Windows ~$300 Trunk dress-up (carpeted trunk) ~$50 I got mine in march of 82 for $8300, a comparable 200SX at that time was $11,000. In 31 months (35,000 mi.) I have had the following problems: 1. Right remote mirror failed. Loose wire, self repaired. 2. Rear Window defogger. Wire knocked off at car wash, self repaired. I go 0-50 in 6.8 seconds get 24 miles/gal city 28-30 highway. The car is very quiet and its suspension is not as stiff as most sports cars. This causes a slight loss in handling ability. I replaced the tires with Eagle GT's and found a great improvement in handling. Also goes well in Ithaca NY snow with a little weight in trunk. I get comments frequently on its looks and rear seat leg room. The oil, air and gas filters are a cinch to change as are the spark plugs. I did not opt for any extra corrosion protection and still show no signs of rust. All in all I have been completely satisfied with the car and recommend it highly. Only thing is I havent seen any on lots lately and was curious if Chrysler was still importing them. Good Luck Ron Fletcher hocst!rlf From houxm!mhuxj!mhuxr!mhuxv!mhuxt!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!dcdwest!ittvax!decvax!decwrl!amd!fortune!hpda!hplabs!follmer Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 Newsgroups: net.auto Subject: Prelude Price Gouge Survey Date: Wed, 31-Oct-84 19:23:00 EST I'm interested in surveying prices and wait times for the Honda Prelude. I will compile responses mailed to me and post another note. Here is my current data: 5-speed 1985 Honda Prelude (no a/c) (base price 10,400) wait time CA price OR price 0-30 days 12,600 11,600 120-180 days 11,800 10,850 Any opinions on possible hassles involved with buying it in Oregon and using it in California? ucbvax!hplabs!follmer From: desoto!cbosgd!fortune!tierney (Charles Tierney) Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Message-Id: <8411052322.AA00260@fortune.UUCP> Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/3.7) id AA24439; Tue, 6 Nov 84 03:47:08 est Received: by fortune.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA00260; Mon, 5 Nov 84 15:22:33 pst Received: from cbdkc1.UUCP by py/garage/desoto.DK; 8411060939 Sent-By: fortune.UUCP Mon Nov 5 15:22:33 1984 To: hoxna!ela Newsgroups: net.general,net.auto In-Reply-To: <375@hoxna.UUCP> Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA Cc: In article <375@hoxna.UUCP> you write: >Hi! I'm in the market for a new, performance-oriented car. The >catch is, I'm also saving for a house and don't want to spend more >than $13,000 on anything right now. Several possibilities have >emerged so far: > > Fiero GT (V-6, price undetermined as of yet) > Honda Prelude (is it really OK?) > Rabbit GTI (rumors of maintenance problems abound) > Mazda RX7 (the good one's probably too expensive?) > Nissan 200SX (sounds OK, any comments?) > Plymouth Sapporo (nice lines, no word-of-mouth) > >These were culled from the "Road and Track" summary of performance >reviews. I'm sure there are more candidates. Any suggestions? Any >comments on the above? > I recently conducted the above research and bought a GTI. What fun!!!! I *guarantee* the GTI has better handling than the above cars. However: it could stand a little more power (for passing two cars up hill approaching a blind corner on a winding California mountain road). I have had no problems with my GTI whatsoever. Yay! Bought it in June '84. Good Luck!!! Charlie Tierney -------------------------------------------------------------- { hpda harpo ihnp4 cbosgd } !fortune!tierney DEC { decvax !decwrl !amd } !fortune!tierney Berkeley { ucbvax !amd } !fortune!tierney MaBell: (415) 595-8444 USnail: Fortune Systems, 101 Twin Dolphin Drive, Redwood City, California 94065 From: Guy Harris <seismo!rlgvax!guy> Message-Id: <8411060305.AA08691@rlgvax.UUCP> To: hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car In-Reply-To: your article <375@hoxna.UUCP> Rabbit GTI (rumors of maintenance problems abound) I haven't had any, but that's a sample of one. By and large, the only problems I've had have been nigglies. I had to have the speedometer replaced because it made funny noises and behaved unreliably in cold weather (if I remember correctly, a speedo has a rubber wheel that is friction driven; if that's the case, I suspect it was slightly too small and shrunk to the point of not making good contact in cold weather); the digital idling stabilizer doesn't quite stabilize the idle (it varies between 800 and 1000 RPM, depending on the phase of the moon, and sometimes oscillates up and down when idling); and when the gas tank is < 1/4 full, a right turn taken quickly starves the engine (this problem was mentioned in the column at the end of R&T on somebody else's GTI, and I'll show that to my dealer); and the exhaust manifold came loose a bit and rattled when accelerating. The only real nasty is that when washed (and, I think, under other circumstances), water leaks into the front passenger footwell. Not good. On the other hand, it runs quite well, *is* fast, and handles well. It gets reasonable mileage, and is quite a bit cheaper than many cars that don't go much faster, if any faster at all. Plymouth Sapporo (nice lines, no word-of-mouth) I don't think Plymouth sells that model here anymore; Mitsubishi may or may not still make it (would *you* make a car called the Galant Lambda Eterna Super Touring Coupe? - that *is* its name in Japan!). You might also look at the Dodge Daytona/Chrysler Laser, or at the Mitsubishi Starion/Dodge Conquest, although that may bust your price limit. Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy From: desoto!cbosgd!decvax!decwrl!sun!billc (Bill Courington) Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Return-Path: <decvax!decwrl!sun!billc> Message-Id: <8411052156.AA27146@sun.uucp> Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/3.7) id AA23531; Mon, 5 Nov 84 23:55:00 est Received: by decvax.UUCP (4.12/1.0) id AA00836; Mon, 5 Nov 84 17:50:45 est Received: by decwrl.ARPA (4.22.01/4.7.34) id AA26089; Mon, 5 Nov 84 14:12:59 pst Received: by sun.uucp (1.2/SMI-1.2) id AA27146; Mon, 5 Nov 84 13:56:41 pst Received: from cbdkc1.UUCP by py/garage/desoto.DK; 8411060533 Sent-By: decvax.UUCP Mon Nov 5 17:50:45 1984 To: hoxna!ela Newsgroups: net.general,net.auto In-Reply-To: <375@hoxna.UUCP> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Cc: 1. This article does not belong in net.general. 2. I looked at the Prelude and bought an 84 GTI. They are both terrific cars. The Prelude is, well, more elegant; the GTI is more--what's the right word...spunky?--and has a more practical form factor. That is, the backseat of the Prelude is for bags of groceries or double amputees only. Real people fit in the back of the Rabbit, although entry and egress aren't easy. The back seat also folds down. I expect the Prelude will give you far les trouble. My GTI has 22K miles on it. Shortly after I bought it, the Woodruff key broke, necessitating the replacement of the crank. Except for the inconvenience of waiting for the part, the dealer handled the incident very well. Nothing has gone wrong since then. However, the interior has rattled since day 1; I'm getting used to it, but you might not. The only other negative comment I have is that the car has short legs: 55MPH = 3000 rpm. On balance, I think the tradeoff (lots of torque, close ratio gearbox) is worth it, but the Prelude is probably a better long-distance cruiser. In sum, you can't go wrong with either so far as I can tell. The GTI is a bit more along the lines of a traditional sports car, the Prelude is somewhat more of a grand touring car. Have fun. From: ihnp4!philabs!ttidca!ttidcb!haral Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA20176; 5 Nov 84 22:03:58 CST (Mon) Received: by philabs.uucp (4.12/3.14) id AA10941; Mon, 5 Nov 84 17:11:23 est Date: Mon, 5 Nov 84 17:11:23 est Message-Id: <8411052211.AA10941@philabs.uucp> To: ttidca!philabs!ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Newsgroups: net.general,net.auto In-Reply-To: <> Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. (CitiCorp), Santa Monica Cc: Whatever you do, don't buy the Fiero. For more info look in Consumer Reports. --Haral Tsitsivas ...!{philabs, randvax, vortex, trwrb}!ttidca!haral From: Tom Love <seismo!rlgvax!toml> Message-Id: <8411021348.AA26768@rlgvax.UUCP> To: hoxna!ela Subject: Re: Need advice on a good new sports car In-Reply-To: your article <370@hoxna.UUCP> you really ought to check out the toyota celica gt-s. not the gt, but the gt-s (the difference is simple: independent rear suspension on the gt-s). i have an 84 which i love. though it doesn't have the power of a v8, none of the other cars you mentioned do either (the gt-s has a peppy 4 cylinder 2.4 liter fuel injected engine). and the handling.... probably better than any of the others you mentioned, with the possible exception of the gutless fiero (don't know, haven't driven, just heard.) if a two-seater is acceptable, the mazda rx-7 is a pretty fine car, and surprisingly affordable. let me offer you one warning however. i would strongly suggest talking to your insurance agent before buying a sports car. i don't know your age/marital status, but last year, when i was living in red bank, nj (i used to work at ho attis), and i went out to buy my celica, my coverage would have cost me $1470 per year (24 yrs old then, single, NO TICKETS OR CLAIMS - this with allstate). just be careful that your $250-300 monthly payment doesn't have another $125 monthly hidden behind it because of nj's *screwed up* insurance practices. by the way, if you go to look at toyotas, check out the dealer in freehold. i bought mine in eatontown, monmouth toyota, without checking around enough. check a few dealers, and if you can (this applies to all japanese cars) buy off of the lot. trying to bargain with a jap car dealer is bad enough - it's IMPOSSIBLE if you special order something (not to mention that it takes months to get an approximation of what you ordered). the car i bought was off the lot, in fact a dealer demo with 1400 miles on it, saving me about a grand. enough rambling. good luck. tom love computer consoles inc - office systems group {seismo | allegra | ihnp4} !rlgvax!toml From: ihnp4!utzoo!aesat!bmw Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA00299; 5 Nov 84 14:40:55 CST (Mon) To: utzoo!ihnp4!cbosgd!cbdkc1!desoto!packard!hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car References: <375@hoxna.UUCP> Eric, I think you should look into the VW Scirrocco. Three colleagues each have one of the models ("regular", Wolfsburg Edition) and are very happy with them. One of them has a neighbor with a BMW 318i who is trading it in for a Scirrocco! Bruce Walker {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!bmw From: ihnp4!watmath!wateng!pludwig (Paul J. Ludwig) Message-Id: <8411061344.AA12153@wateng> To: hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car References: <375@hoxna.UUCP> My advice is go for the Prelude by Honda. I have owned three Hondas in my driving career. They have all proven extremly reliable and very excellent on gas. The first Honda I put on 96,000 miles before trading for a Honda Accord in which I put on 198,000 km. I now own an 1984 Accord and enjoy it very much for driving in. The Prelude are very close to the Accord in handling and performance. But if you want a nice sporty looking car for under 11K the Accord is your better buy. Why? More room for the windsurfer and camping equipment and if it rains there is enough room in the hatch back (my personal favourite) to sleep with the back seat folded down. Trust me I had to do just that one camping trip when the tent got washed away. I hope this info will help. thx P.J.Ludwig From: Gigi Babcock <allegra!hplabs!babcock> Received: by HP-EARTH id AA12992; Mon, 5 Nov 84 15:21:35 pst Message-Id: <8411052321.AA12992@HP-EARTH> To: allegra!hoxna!ela Subject: "sport" cars Consumer reports rated the honda prelude and toyota celica very high. I ended up getting a honda prelude because I wanted a sun roof. To get the celica with a sunroof meant that I had to get an assortment of expensive features I did not want (since the cars are shipped that way from Japan). The preludes on the other hand have few options (floor mats, air conditioning, fog lights), all of which are installed by the dealer. Further there are only three colors, so it is easier to get the one you want. In any case I know several people with preludes, all of whom are very happy with their cars. I just picked up my '85 about 5 days ago and so far am very happy with it. To get a red one was a 3 1/2 month wait here in California. P. S. I originally tried to send this through ihnp4 to hoxna as per you sig. line. However, I get back that that connection did not exist. It appears I can however get to hoxna via allegra. So you minght want to update your sig. line. ===================================================================== Gigi Babcock @ Hewlett-Packard, 3172 Porter Drive, Palo Alto, CA 94304 {allegra,ihnp4,tektronix,nsc,hao,intelca,oliveb,ucbvax,pesnta}!hplabs!babcock From: ihnp4!scgvaxd!kvc (68908) Message-Id: <8411052139.AA09957@scgvaxd.UUCP> To: ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subject: Re: zzzzzzzoooommmm Take a look at the RX-7. For 14,000 you oughta be able to get a GSL out the door (has everything, may have to leave out leather interior to keep it under 14,000, though). Has more power than the Fiero and a LOT more room inside. You'd be amazed what you can fit into the back of the RX-7. The handling is superb. I have a '79 that runs great after 80,000 miles, so they hold up too. For a REAL treat, you'd want a GSL-SE with the bigger engine, but that'll be out of range of the price you were looking at. I wouldn't even consider any of the others on your list, but that's my opinion and CERTAINLY not meant as a judgement on you! I any case, you're bound to have fun in any of 'em. Good luck! /Kevin Carosso ihnp4!scgvaxd!kvc Hughes Aircraft Co. From: ihnp4!decwrl!sci!howard (Howard Landman) Message-Id: <8411062315.AA04581@sci.uucp> To: ihnp4!cbosgd!cbdkc1!desoto!packard!hoxna!ela Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car References: <375@hoxna.UUCP> I would have to vote NAY on the Fiero. I have always liked the Firebird series and presently own a '78 Trans-Am 6.6, and test-drove a Fiero soon after they came out. Overall impressions: 1. Much smaller inside and outside. Uncomfortably so. 2. Despite this, acceleration was poor. 3. Handling was tolerable but not great. The reviews that I had read tended to confirm this, especially point 2. Perhaps you should read some other magazines? Howard A. Landman sci!howard From uucp Wed Nov 7 10:09 EST 1984 >From docs 7 Nov 1984 10:06 EST remote from hocsp FROM: docs@hocsp.ATT.UUCP TO: ela@hoxna.UUCP DATE: 7 Nov 1984 10:06 EST SUBJECT: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Reference: <375@hoxna.UUCP> My fiance has a Rabbit GTI and loves it. So do I for that matter. Very peppy, real nice interior, great handling. Just a great car. And so far, no maintenance problems(it has over 43,000 miles on it and he bought in in January of '83). It may not look like a sports car but it sure handles like one. Sharon Badian From: desoto!cbosgd!decvax.UUCP!mcnc!ncsu!uvacs!kff Subject: Sports Car Return-Path: <decvax!mcnc!ncsu!uvacs!kff> Message-Id: <8411070741.AA14420@ncsu.UUCP> Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/3.7) id AA05354; Wed, 7 Nov 84 07:40:01 est Received: by decvax.UUCP (4.12/1.0) id AA11077; Wed, 7 Nov 84 04:44:58 est Received: by mcnc (4.12/4.7) id AA27664; Wed, 7 Nov 84 03:39:09 est Received: by ncsu.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA14420; Wed, 7 Nov 84 02:41:24 est Received: from cbdkc1.UUCP by py/garage/desoto.DK; 8411071349 Sent-By: decvax.UUCP Wed Nov 7 04:44:58 1984 Original-From: <ncsu!uvacs!kff@mcnc> To: hoxna!ela Consider a Chrysler Laser/Dodge Daytona. A friend of mine just bought one, and has been very pleased with it. With turbo and various amenities, it costs about $12,500 (at least this year. Don't know about the 85's). The only problem I am aware of is that the clutch requires 35 pounds, at least on the 84's. Maybe they put a decent clutch in this year... It is definitely a fast car. Kelton Flinn From: desoto!cbosgd!dual.UUCP!qantel!intelca!cem Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Return-Path: <qantel!intelca!cem> Message-Id: <8411051854.AA00831@qantel.UUCP> Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/3.7) id AA05292; Wed, 7 Nov 84 07:31:33 est Received: by qantel.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA00831; Mon, 5 Nov 84 10:54:30 pst Received: from cbdkc1.UUCP by py/garage/desoto.DK; 8411071347 Sent-By: dual.UUCP Mon Nov 5 17:26:37 1984 To: hoxna!ela In-Reply-To: your article <375@hoxna.UUCP> I recommend the RX-7. I have one and love it! The styling is a lot nicer than the others you mentioned (yeah I know, personal preference) It is quite reliable, I haven't had *any* problems in 30K miles. And the performane is better than a lot of other cars around. If you really want to fly though, you can add a $1500 turbo that bolts on and generate in excess of 170hp which will allow you to leave all but the most expensive Porches in the dust, and any thing made by an american manufacturer. If you just want more oompf without overkill, Racing Beat of Orange County, CA can re-port and add 20 - 30 hp with out the turbo. Owner satisfaction is extremely high, as indicated by the fact that the only person I know that didn't replace his RX with an RX got a Porsche instead. So here is an admittedly biased but definite vote for the RX-7. --Chuck From: desoto!cbosgd!decvax!genrad!teddy!mjn (Mark J. Norton) Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Return-Path: <decvax!genrad!teddy!mjn> Message-Id: <8411051423.AA13284@teddy.UUCP> Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/3.7) id AA03195; Wed, 7 Nov 84 02:39:37 est Received: by decvax.UUCP (4.12/1.0) id AA11984; Tue, 6 Nov 84 02:34:29 est Received: by genrad.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA22638; Mon, 5 Nov 84 09:27:32 est Received: by teddy.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA13284; Mon, 5 Nov 84 09:23:53 est Received: from cbdkc1.UUCP by py/garage/desoto.DK; 8411070859 Sent-By: decvax.UUCP Tue Nov 6 02:34:29 1984 To: hoxna!ela In-Reply-To: your article <375@hoxna.UUCP> My wife and I recently took delivery of an '85 Mazda RX7 and we are quite pleased with it. This is my second RX7 (I sold the first to buy a house) so you can see I think highly of them. For $14,000 we got: GS model: 5 speed, many minor options Advanced digital stereo option Mudflaps (worth it, since it tends to pick up mud) Chapman lock Alloy wheels 2+2 backseat modification ($1000) Notice if you subtract off the last item it brings price into your range. Of all the cars on your list, I think the Mazda is the best by. It competes quite well against cars in the 18K - 25K range. The Mazda is a fairly reliable sports car. I sold my old one to a friend, and he has had few problems with it (it is now 5 years old). Lastly, this is a good time to finance a car. The price of money is low. Up here in Mass. we got a 12% car loan. Good luck with whatever you buy. Enjoy... Mark J. Norton decvax!genrad!teddy!mjn From: ihnp4!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!zorn Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA21526; 6 Nov 84 21:27:05 CST (Tue) Received: by sdcrdcf.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA09699; Tue, 6 Nov 84 18:34:42 pst Date: Tue, 6 Nov 84 18:34:42 pst Message-Id: <8411070234.AA09699@sdcrdcf.UUCP> To: trwrb!sdcrdcf!ihnp4!hoxna!ela Subject: Sports Cars Eric, Hello there. I am writing in response to your news article about small sports car advice. I have done a little research myself in that area. Besides reading Consumer Reports, going to dealers, and word of mouth, I was a guinea pig for an independent research firm. I examined and test drove new model cars ranging from small economy cars to rather expensive sports cars. I gave them my opinion for a small some of money. (Sounds like a good deal, huh? It also sounds alot more grandiose than it actually is. In fact, I can recommend anyone's name to be a participant.) I am also in the market for a the type of car that you are looking for myself. Here is what I have found in a nutshell: The Pontiac Fiero is a nice little car. There are many manufacturing flaws normally evident in a new production design. The V6 should help its somewhat underpowered drive train, though I would wait until Pontiac puts a Borg-Wagner 5-speed in it, thus making the train stronger and more fuel efficient. If you like this car, drive it before making a decision. It has some strange handling characteristics that I personally find annoying. This is my favorite of the ones that you had on your list and I am most likely going to buy one in about a year. I personally am waiting a couple of production years until both the design flaws have been worked over and I can save enough money. The Honda's have been getting more and more reliable. The Prelude has some very nice styling and definitely has enough power under the hood to keep you out of trouble in one respect and constantly in trouble with the law. Honda's have an uncanny habit of becomming rattleboxes within 2 yrs. Parts are expensive and hard to come by because the parts that break are usually the parts that are never in stock at a dealership. As often as this car would break I wouldn't think this is a major problem. If you don't mind a foreign car, I would pick this over the Fiero. I now own an '82 Datsun King Cab truck and I am through with foreign car dealers for a few years. The Rabbit GTI has many problems. In crash tests, this car came out far lower than one would expect. This car is downright dangerous. The economy is great, but when compared with the repair and medical bills from one minor fender bender, it's simply not worth it. Within a year, you must do an overhaul to the fuel injection system, which, unless you know what your doing can be VERY expensive. The Mazda RX-7 is, in my opinion, grossly overpriced. It handles much worse than one would expect a car of this price range to handle. Shifting this car is a chore to put it extremely mildly. The clutch catches at the wrong place, the gear shift is stiff, awkward, and hard to reach. If this car breaks, you must only take it to a dealer or a very expensive rotary engine specialist. In my opinion, definitely not worth the money. The Datsun 200SX is a really nice car. It's plush, fast, and somewhat inexpensive for what you get. The biggest problem that this car has it the people who support it. Datsun dealers, despite the great publicity, are not the most cooperative people in the world. I know this from personal experience. I have a friend that just bought one of these cars, and he is absolutely thrilled with it. He got it with a turbo. The mileage is great! The handling is great! And even the bitchy voice that tell you to turn off the f*cking lights is great! It's comfortable and the guages are easy to read. One major problem is the visibility. There are big blind spots in the rear of the cab...not to nice. This is only marginally relieved by a large unsightly wink mirror that you can install (not by Datsun). Finally, the Plymouth Sapporro. I shouldn't tell you my opinion of this car because it is unduly biased. I am sort of boycotting Crysler cars because a close friend of mine was shafted by them. The views here are compiled from my own research and personal experience. I try rather hard to find all angles before I form an opinion of a car. Once I make up my mind, however, I become VERY opinionated. I will be curious to know which car your finally decide to buy, because, as I say, I am in the market for basically the same type of car. tk 2 u ltr, Marc Zorn System Manager TRW Electronics and Defense From: ihnp4!sdcsvax!bmcg!asgb!nkn Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP; id AA08836; 6 Nov 84 16:04:18 CST (Tue) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 84 09:26:18 pst Message-Id: <8411061726.AA03662@sdcsvax.UCSD> Received: by sdcsvax.UCSD; Tue, 6 Nov 84 09:26:18 pst Subject: Re: Sports Cars Apparently-To: ihnp4!hoxna!ela I was in the market a year and a half ago for a new car. I wanted something sporty, as you do. In addition, I wanted front-wheel drive (a must in Colorado). At lower priority was a usable back seat. I looked at the Honda Prelude, Volkswagon Scirocco, Nissan Pulsar NX Turbo and Renault Fuego Turbo. The Scirocco was a little on the expensive side, and the Fuego has the roomiest back seat of the four. I eventually wound up with the Fuego. I have had some problems with it. I wouldn't call it a lemon, but it has been in the shop several more times than I would expect for a new car. Also, AMC has been less friendly than expected with the warranty (the warranty stipulates that a loaner car will be given if the car needs to be left over-night for warranty work -- my car was left over-night three times for such work and each time the dealer failed to give me a loaner car). However, when the car runs, it is a real pleasure to drive. The turbo is a real kick (0-60 in 10.7 -- not phenomenal, but not too bad either). It corners like a dream. The handling is better than any other car I've ever driven, but then my last car was a 1971 Mercury Comet, which isn't generally considered a sports car! A word about the turbo: I have to let the car warm up for about a minute before driving it in order for the turbo to warm up. Similarly, when I come to a stop I'm supposed to let the car idle for about two minutes (although I never actually wait this long) for the turbo to spin down. My brother has a Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, and he doesn't have to do this waiting. I don't know how Ford got around this. My Fuego is a 1983. In 1984 Renault introduced a larger engine for the non-turbo (up from 1.6 to 2.2). This new 2.2 is supposed to be nearly as fast as the turbo-charged 1.6. If you are interested in the Fuego I would recommend looking at the 2.2 unless you really want the few tenths of a second that the turbo will buy you. I hope this rambling has been of some help to you. Good luck! Neil Nelson Burroughs Advanced Systems Group asgb!nkn x227 From **RJE** Thu Nov 8 15:05 EST 1984 >From **RJE** Thu Nov 8 15:05 EST 1984 forwarded by **RJE** >From amie73 Thu Nov 8 14:59 EST 1984 remote from hogpd Hi Eric, This is robin, janet, and cindy across the hall. In answer to your news brief regarding sports cars -- we think you should be driving in class. Janet is an owner of a mazda and I have a sh-- datsun 200SX (SL package). Janet likes her car, but forget the datsun. If you want to buy a foreign sports car.....try a ferrari or if that is not in your budget, try an alpha. If you buy an alpha, you may have enough money left over to buy Porsche sunglasses. REAL COOL MAN!!!!! Bye for now From uucp Fri Nov 9 08:58 EST 1984 >From bla Fri Nov 9 08:53 EST 1984 remote from lzma FROM: beth TO: eric DATE: 11/9/84, 8:46 AM SUBJECT: corolla My new officemate just bought a Corolla last weekend. This is his third one, & he's been very happy with them (obviously). The first one was his very first car, & he says he knew nothing about cars then...ran the battery dry (the garage was appalled) but it lasted until the car had 96,000 miles on it! His wife didn't know much about cars either...she picked him up from work one day & he noticed that the oil light was on. He asked her how long it had been on, & she said it had been going on & off for a day or so. Despite all that abuse, the car lasted a long time & it didn't even eat oil after that episode. He says parts are expensive, but the corollas have hardly ever needed fixing. His only other criticism is that the cars tend to come loaded with options you may not necessarily want. It's the typical case of having to settle for the "closest match." Just some more info to keep in mind.... From: edsel!gwr (GW Ryan) Full-Name: GW Ryan Subject: Re: need advice on good, new sports car Message-Id: <8411122249.AA22299@py/garage/edsel.DK> Received: by py/garage/edsel.DK; 8411122249 To: hoxna!ela References: <375@hoxna.UUCP> I happen to love the Toyota Camry ... I have an '83 and I think it is fantastic. You can get 'em for 12.5K or so jerry ryan (edsel!gwr) From uucp Wed Oct 31 10:15 EST 1984 >From ark Wed Oct 31 10:16 EST 1984 remote from grigg re: sports car Your list missed the Mazda RX-7, which I would probably pick in preference to any of the above. Also the Volvo Turbo. ~From houxm!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!sunybcs!acsgrlk Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 ~Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hoxna.UUCP ~Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site sunybcs.UUCP ~Path: hoxna!houxm!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!sunybcs!acsgrlk ~From: acsgrlk@sunybcs.UUCP (Bob Lay Kong) ~Newsgroups: net.auto ~Subject: Problems With VW Scirocco... ~Message-ID: <814@sunybcs.UUCP> ~Date: Mon, 5-Nov-84 23:34:38 EST ~Article-I.D.: sunybcs.814 ~Posted: Mon Nov 5 23:34:38 1984 ~Date-Received: Tue, 6-Nov-84 21:19:00 EST ~Distribution: net ~Organization: State University of New York @ Buffalo,NY ~Lines: 32 Has anyone ever have the following problems with your VW Scirocco???? 1) When your car has gotten up to running temp you get a sound as if there is a loose bolt in your exhaust system. This only happens when you rev. the engine at about 2100 rpm and only when the engine is warm. It seems that anyone who I have talked too whos has a Scirocco from the years '79 thru '81 has had this problem. Does anyone know how to correct this problem because I haven't been able to fix it. 2) The second problem is with the fuel injection system. When the engine is cold there seems to be a lag in the fuel injection system. The car doesn't want to accelerate until the engine gets warmed up. Before the engine gets warm the car seems to want to argue with you about giving it some gas. If anyone out there has any solution about these problems can you please send the solution to me. Thanks... Bob Lay Kong sunyab ~From houxm!mhuxj!aluxz!aluxe!mhuxi!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!spuxll!eisx!jeb Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 ~Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hoxna.UUCP ~Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site eisx.UUCP ~Path: hoxna!houxm!mhuxj!aluxz!aluxe!mhuxi!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!spuxll!eisx!jeb ~From: jeb@eisx.UUCP (Jim Beckman) ~Newsgroups: net.auto ~Subject: REAL sports cars ~Message-ID: <820@eisx.UUCP> ~Date: Tue, 6-Nov-84 11:06:50 EST ~Article-I.D.: eisx.820 ~Posted: Tue Nov 6 11:06:50 1984 ~Date-Received: Wed, 7-Nov-84 08:26:47 EST ~Organization: AT&T Info. Sys. Labs, South Plainfield NJ ~Lines: 33 <> This is a reprint of a published ad from the Triumph Register of America. I don't have permission to post it, but I don't think they're the kind of folks to get upset. "The Triumph Register of America (TRA) is the only national U.S. organization devoted solely to the TR-2/3 series. What does this mean to you as a potential member? It means that for the most comprehensive look at every problem regarding the mechanics of your car - for the best guidance on parts sources - for a real membership with other hard core, wind-in-the-face, rain-in-the-lap people - the Triumph Register of America offers the best you can find. How can you characterize our membership? We believe in side curtains. We believe in engines that last forever. We believe in a rock-solid ride and cut-down doors. We believe that overheating in traffic is an unchangeable, natural phenomenon, just as earthquakes and tornadoes are, no matter how unfortunate they might be. We believe that the person inside an automobile who is cold in the winter and hot in the summer - just like the weather outside - is a more healthy person, who will no doubt live longer than those who drive along in a controlled, unnatural environment. And most of all, we believe that the TR-2/3 series is *the last* mass-produced, cut-down door, side-curtained sports car that will ever be produced. As such, it holds a special place in the hearts of its Triumph Register of America owners, for it represents the finest of an honest and rugged car design that is capable of providing immense sporting pleasure at a reasonable cost. If you think like we do, won't you join us? Jim Beckman AT&T-ISL, South Plainfield, NJ eisx!jeb ~From houxm!mhuxj!mhuxr!mhuxv!mhuxt!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!scgvaxd!pertec!felix!fritz!zemon Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 ~Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hoxna.UUCP ~Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site fritz.UUCP ~Path: hoxna!houxm!mhuxj!mhuxr!mhuxv!mhuxt!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!scgvaxd!pertec!felix!fritz!zemon ~From: zemon@fritz.UUCP (Art Zemon) ~Newsgroups: net.auto ~Subject: Re: Need advice on a good new sports car ~Message-ID: <864@fritz.UUCP> ~Date: Mon, 5-Nov-84 14:20:23 EST ~Article-I.D.: fritz.864 ~Posted: Mon Nov 5 14:20:23 1984 ~Date-Received: Wed, 7-Nov-84 23:34:24 EST ~References: <370@hoxna.UUCP> ~Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, Ca. ~Lines: 12 Summary: You might also take a serious look at the Dodge Shelby Charger. I have one and like it much better than the Prelude, which is a *very* nice car. The performance of the two is virtually identical (check R&T's road test summary for details). The Shelby Charger is a couple thousand cheaper and, amazing but true, is all American. -- -- Art Zemon FileNet Corp. ...!{decvax,ucbvax}!trwrb!felix!zemon ~From houxm!mhuxj!mhuxr!mhuxv!mhuxt!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 ~Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hoxna.UUCP ~Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site watdcsu.UUCP ~Path: hoxna!houxm!mhuxj!mhuxr!mhuxv!mhuxt!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!burl!clyde!watmath!watdcsu!haapanen ~From: haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) ~Newsgroups: net.auto ~Subject: What's a sports car? ~Message-ID: <619@watdcsu.UUCP> ~Date: Wed, 7-Nov-84 09:30:48 EST ~Article-I.D.: watdcsu.619 ~Posted: Wed Nov 7 09:30:48 1984 ~Date-Received: Thu, 8-Nov-84 06:24:10 EST ~Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario ~Lines: 47 < Nami nami nami nami ... > Thanks to the recent discussion on the net regarding 'cheap' sports cars, I've decided to throw in my two cents' worth. The following list defines some of my classifications, each with some examples (not a comprehensive list!). Some of the classes are also used by Road & Track... Sports/GT: - VW Scirocco - Chevrolet Corvette - Mazda RX-7 Sports sedan: - BMW 318i - Audi 4000 - Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe Sedan: - VW Golf - Chevrolet Citation - Renault Alliance Luxury sedan: - Mercedes 300 SD (and don't argue about this one!) - Cadillac Sedan De Ville - Rolls Royce Camargue Sports/Luxury: - Mercedes 500 SEC - Porsche 928 - Lincoln Mark VII Sports car: - Lotus Super Seven - Porsche 911 Carrera RSR - Porsche 924 Carrera GTS According to my definition, a sports car is a car that's small, fast, fun to drive *and* is ready to be taken to the races on the weekend. It should also be expensive to repair... Tom Haapanen University of Waterloo (519) 744-2468 allegra \ clyde \ \ decvax ---- watmath --- watdcsu --- haapanen ihnp4 / / linus / The opinions herein are not those of my employers, of the University of Waterloo, and probably not of anybody else either. ~From edsel!packard!desoto!hudson!ihnp1!ihnp4!zehntel!tektronix!tekig!tekcbi!donz Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 ~Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hoxna.UUCP ~Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site tekcbi.UUCP ~Path: hoxna!edsel!packard!desoto!hudson!ihnp1!ihnp4!zehntel!tektronix!tekig!tekcbi!donz ~From: donz@tekcbi.UUCP (Don Zocchi) ~Newsgroups: net.auto ~Subject: Re: Need advice on a good new sports car ~Message-ID: <103@tekcbi.UUCP> ~Date: Fri, 9-Nov-84 13:33:29 EST ~Article-I.D.: tekcbi.103 ~Posted: Fri Nov 9 13:33:29 1984 ~Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 13:08:58 EST ~References: <370@hoxna.UUCP>, <864@fritz.UUCP> ~Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR ~Lines: 3 I just bought a 1984 Dodge Turbo Daytona, and I'm happy as a clam. The other day I blew the doors off of a Ford Mustang GT (HO V8), both on a curvy course, and the straight away. Not bad for a <$10K car.