jm@tekadg.UUCP (Jeff Mizener) (11/08/84)
[]
I've just finished a long discussion with The Rabbit Hutch, a local VW
specialty shop. You see, my GTI went in for the 15k mile checkup,
and when it was done, the mechanic was able to tell me where I'd been buying
my gas. Basically it boils down to two things:
1) Oregon law says that you can put up to 30% (no typo, 30%)
alcohol into gasoline before you have to label it as containing
alcohol. The mechanic (Skip) says that he's seen alcohol
in ARCO and the local discount gasolines. The local ARCO
distributor denies that ARCO mixes its gas with alcohol.
Alcohol is generally considered to be BAD NEWS for injected
motors. Beware. I'll do some more snooping around and let
you all know what I find out.
2) ARCO gas is generally VERY DIRTY. My fuel filter, which is
supposed to last until 30k miles, was very plugged. This
causes other problems that tend to manifest themselves in ways
not obviously fuel related. Especially when the injectors
start to go. Many of the local discount gas stations buy from
ARCO, so beware. Other brands said to cause problems are
Shell and Texaco (both of whom deny that there is alcohol
in their gas). Frequently gasoline it "traded" between
distributors "at the dock". This means that you might not
be buying what you think. Brands that have no history
of causing trouble are 76, Chevron and Mobil. The more
expensive, the cleaner the gas, it would seem.
The moral of the story is BEWARE of local cheap gas, especially ARCO.
You can spend $1 more per fillup and avoid a $300 fuel system overhaul.
Film at Eleven.
Jeff Mizener / Tektronix Portables ADG / Beaverton OR
{ucbvax,decvax,purdue,uw-beaver,hplabs,allegra,ihnp4,ogcvax}!tektronix!tekadg!jm
ARPA: tekadg!jm.tek@udel-relay CSnet: tekadg!jm@tektomk@orca.UUCP (Tom Kloos) (11/10/84)
Drop by your local GM dealer and get a copy of their cutomer service
newsletter titled "Methanol/Gasoline Blends Pose Potential Problems"
dated 1/84. It is quite well written and provides a significant
amount of information. (No flames about GM please!)
The bottom line is: Be very careful using fuels with alcohol in
today's vehicles. Up to 10% ethanol is probably OK. Up to 5% (five!)
methanol IF used with a cosolvent and corrosion inhibitor may also
be acceptable. However, methanol is generally BAD NEWS with the
materials that are optimized to withstand gasoline. Unfortunately
methanol is cheaper than ethanol, so gasoline supplies prefer it.
As for Oregon permitting 30% alcohol, GM claims EPA only allows 12%.
Higher concentrations might be possible if a permit is issued from the
EPA. It might be a good idea to contact the EPA if you suspect a
problem with the fuel you've purchased. A study in the mid-west found
that blenders sometimes exceeded the limits.
I doubt that Arco's gas is really any dirtier than most, but when
I was using "Burnsahol" (10% ethanol in Chevron unleaded) I found
the fuel filter filled up with rust and junk MUCH more rapidly.
I suspect it was loosening a lot of junk from the car's tank, fuel
system, and maybe the dealers tank.
-Tom Kloos, Tektronix, Wilsonville, Oregon
Ignore paths in header. Use this:
uucp: ..{ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver,hplabs,ihnp4,allegra}!tektronix!orca!tomkmarcum@rhino.UUCP (Alan M. Marcum) (11/12/84)
> Other brands said to cause problems are > Shell and Texaco (both of whom deny that there is alcohol > in their gas). > Jeff Mizener / Tektronix Portables ADG / Beaverton OR I've been using Shell Super Unleaded for several years, most recently (for the last ~1 1/2 years) in a BMW 318i. I've been quite pleased with the gasoline, and this is the first I've heard of an alcohol or dirt problem with it (I've heard about Arco many times before, though). Anyone else have additional information (NOT hearsay or rumors)? I also recall octane ratings varying WIDELY from state to state (a few years ago, unleaded regular in Arizona ran 83-85 octane; that in the Northeast ran 87-89). Any insights into the situation today? Any relation to alcohol issues? -- Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California ...!{ihnp4, ucbvax!amd, hpda, sri-unix, harpo}!fortune!rhino!marcum
dw@rocksvax.UUCP (Don Wegeng) (11/13/84)
It's interesting that ARCO in your area claims that their gas does not
contain alcohol. Here in Rochester NY they advertise the fact that it
*does* as a feature, not a bug. I would have thought that their gas
would be the same throughout the country.
For the record, my Saab owners manual says that the use of gasoline
which contains alcohol may damage the plastic parts in the fuel injector.
I'm taking their word for it.
--
/Don
"Fighting for peace is like making love for virginity".
arpa: Wegeng.Henr@Xerox.ARPA
uucp: {allegra,princeton,decvax!rochester,amd,sunybcs}!rocksvax!dw
|| ihnp4!tropix!ritcv!rocksvax!dwwmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (11/15/84)
Just out of rather amazed curiosity: Since the addition of alcohol to gasoline has been an obvious trend for at least a decade now, due to various energy crunch reasons, and since many countries, like Brazil, are emphasizing total alcohol use for automotive fuel, why on earth would ANY automobile manufacturer design and/or build cars with fuel systems or components that could not handle alcohol?!?! I can understand problems with older cars, but the net discussion seems to be based on cars of recent vintage. Manufacturers should be expecting that any vaguely flammable sludge would be making its way into the fuel tanks of their vehicles; why would they build cars that can't handle the fuel they will inevitably be consuming???!!! Will