jsstraub@csws15.ic.sunysb.edu (James S. Straub) (09/26/90)
From: jsstraub@csserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (James S. Straub) Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms Subject: Corrupt? References: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: na Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook Keywords: I bought Word for Windows when it first came out. I hardly ever look at manuals and when I do, I always find what I need. Learning the programming language in WFW is all most impossible using the manual supplied with WFW. The manual just plain stinks. It's the worst manual I have ever seen. I just got a brochure from the Microsoft Press. This is a little booklet that advertises books for Windows, Word for Windows, and Excel. There are four books for WFW. My Question: Isn't it corrupt to provide a useless and unorganized manual (intentional?) and at the same time provide a better manual for money? For the money I spent on WFW I should of at least have received a useful manual. Note: I have nothing but this against Microsoft. I feel their programs are pretty dame good even WFW, except for the annoying auto-backup that is really not automatic. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ | James S. Straub -> Life may be limited but your imagination isn't! <- | | InterNET: jsstraub@csserv1.ic.sunysb.edu BITNet: jsstraub@sbccvm.bitnet | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) (09/26/90)
The manual supplied with Word for Windows is in fact quite good and quite useful for most users of WfW, who have little or no need for the Technical Manual. Yes, Microsoft could have included the Technical Manual (useless to 80+ percent of the users) and jacked the price up to cover the additional manual. Or they could do what they did: provide the manual most people need and let only those who really need the technical manual buy it. Note that they did the same basic thing with their mouse. Most people don't program the mouse, don't develop menus for it, etc. Therefore, the mouse comes just with a basic manual on how to use the mouse. If you want to program the mouse (something perhaps only a couple percent of the mouse users want to do) you can buy the Mouse Tech Reference. Jim Mann Stratus Computer jmann@es.stratus.com
jls@hsv3.UUCP (James Seidman) (09/27/90)
In article <1990Sep26.223502.15953@athena.mit.edu> acook@athena.mit.edu (Andrew R Cook) writes: >This is a good theory, but it fails blaringly in one case that is >important to me: the C compiler. Microsoft did not supply a >reference manual with version 6 of the compiler. One must go to the >bookstore, and buy it. I will agree wholeheartedly that this was incredibly cheap of them and sucks big time. I know I was really pissed to discover that! >One cannot make effective use of a compiler >without a library manual. There is an online version provided, but >the interface required to access it (PWB) sucks. It takes way to long >to start this sucker up to look up a library function. I have a hard >time believing that anyone finds this truely useful, unless they have >a 33Mhz 486 box. Some info you might find useful: you do NOT have to go through the PWB to access QH (quickhelp). I wouldn't touch PWB with a ten-foot pole (nor do I know a single programmer who would!). You can access it just by typing "QH" which'll give you a menu of help items. Or "QH malloc" will take you straight to the page on malloc(), for example. Or "CL /help" or "LINK /help" will invoke QH and take you automatically to the indices associated with those programs. The biggest problem for me is that it's very clumsy without a mouse. And you can't use a mouse inside a window, of course... (maybe 6.1 will have a windows app version of QH? We can only hope...) -- Jim Seidman (Drax), the accidental engineer. "There's a certain freedom to being completely screwed." - The Freshman UUCP: ames!vsi1!headland!jls ARPA: jls%headland.UUCP@ames.nasa.arc.gov
karl@ficc.ferranti.com (Karl Lehenbauer) (10/02/90)
In article <5014@hsv3.UUCP> jls@headland.UUCP (James Seidman) writes: >In article <1990Sep26.223502.15953@athena.mit.edu> acook@athena.mit.edu (Andrew R Cook) writes: >>There is an online version provided, but >>the interface required to access it (PWB) sucks. >You can access it just by typing "QH" ... >The biggest problem for me is that it's very clumsy without a mouse. You can access the MSC 6.0 help stuff with a mouse from your second monitor when running CodeView for Windows (CVW). -- -- uunet!ficc!karl (wk), uunet!sugar!karl (hm) "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum
todd@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Todd Ogasawara) (10/03/90)
In article <2477@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes: >The manual supplied with Word for Windows is in fact quite good and >quite useful for most users of WfW, who have little or no need for the >Technical Manual. I disagree with point #1 and agree somewhat with point #2. The Word for Windows manual has horrible organization and is poorly written. Its only possible use is as a reference manual for those who already know WfW. This, of course, is the crux of the problem. Virtually no brand new WfW owner "knows" how it works. The manual provided with WfW does not allow you to explore the system in any logical fashion. I ended up buying a QUE Books WfW book that has really taught me much about the software. In regard to unbundling the technical manual... I agree that most WfW users would not make use of it and it probably helped reduce the package price by a few dollars. What I didn't like was the fact that when I received my Word 5 to WfW upgrade notice, Microsoft did not indicate the unbundling and did not offer me an opportunity to order the manual at the time of the upgrade. I only found out about the tech ref manual when I received my upgrade package and a little order card fell out. Then, after I sent in my $$$, I received a poorly photocopied copy of the manual in a three ring binder. I'm still very ticked at the way Microsoft is treating its customers in general and me in particular... -- Todd Ogasawara, U. of Hawaii UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!todd ARPA: uhccux!todd@nosc.MIL BITNET: todd@uhccux INTERNET: todd@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU