mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) (11/12/84)
Okay, so I have my Cobra CB and have ordered my Escort "Passport" radar detector, but there is yet another piece of anti-speed-trap gear that I thought I'd toss out to net.auto readers: VHF scanners. Does anyone have any experience with them? In particular: 1. Are all (state) police calls on a single frequency within that state? 2. Do police cars radio in their position when they stop, especially with respect to stopping to set up speed traps? 3. How well do these units work inside a car if connected to an external antenna? 4. Are there any states where such things are illegal (even if the law is of questionable constitutionality)? 5. Any other comments, suggestions? Radio Shack seems to have a variety of models ranging in price from $100 to $350, which could be a lot cheaper than an insurance surcharge for a ticket. Note 1: I am mostly interested in using this in the New Jersey/New York/Penna. area, especially central Jersey and New York Thruway and Northway to Montreal. Note 1a: The Northway is almost completely empty of traffic when I've been on it, which is not to say that New York is above issuing speeding tickets there. Note 2: I am not at all interested in flames about speeding. The waste of two extra hours of travel time between NJ and Montreal which would be required if the speed limit were obeyed is unacceptable. Thanks for any info. -- Mike^Z [ihnp4!, allegra!] pegasus!mzal or Zaleski@Rutgers
wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (11/13/84)
This is not a flame about speeding. The use of VHF scanners in automobiles is against the law in all three states you mention. It is not because of the speeding problem, but was made so to keep people away from accidents, fires, and ongoing crimes (holdups, hostage, etc.). The fine, if one is found in your car, is heavy and they get to keep the scanner. Another good reason, according to the police, is to keep criminal types from learning where the cops are. You can use a scanner in a non-mobile situation, but you cannot have one in a mobile environment. With your CB and 'Escort', you should have little trouble on the Thru-way. The fuzz won't bother you in most cases up there if you are doing around 65. On the other hand, you might come across a cop who got up on the wrong side of the bed. No amount of warning devices is going to help you then. T. C. Wheeler
wjt@hound.UUCP (Bill Taggart) (11/14/84)
Installing or carrying a police radio scanner in your
car is illegal in New Jersey, unless you are a
policeman, fireman, or on a rescue squad and require
a scanner to meet the obligations of your job.
In New Jersey the local police, for the most part, all
have separate frequencies. The state police also use
a number of frequencies depending on the circumstances
and what part of the state they are in.
It is unlikely that you would hear the police setting
up a radar trap on the scanner; in fact the only
time you would probably hear them is when they radio in
your license plate number after they have pulled you over.
I believe the CB is more useful in gaining advance
warning about possible radar traps or police activity.
--
Bill Taggart
...ihnp4!houxm!hound!wjtwmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (11/15/84)
A scanner in your car will be of little or no use to avoid speed traps. a. Many, if not most, states have laws forbidding the installation of "radios capable of receiving police transmissions" (or similar wording) in any vehicle not designated as "official" or "emergency". b. The kinds of info transmitted by state and/or municipal police are not useful for determining the location of radar speed traps or other speed- checking methods. You'll be constantly "false-alarmed" by drivers' license checks and suchlike radio traffic, and anything interesting is referred to in cryptic codes (which can be learned, of course, but are seldom worth the effort -- plus, they change from region to region). For more scanner info and discussion see net.ham-radio; if you have access to archives of that, there is much to be gleaned therefrom. Will Martin
mikey@trsvax.UUCP (11/16/84)
As a former occupant of PA, I may shed some light on this. First off, in PA there are NO state laws against scanners. In a few places, Philly for example, the police are almost fanatical if they find a scanner. Seems they don't like the light of day. Anyway, in PA there are 7 main frequencies that the State Police use. Base 1, 2, and 3, Mobile 1, 2, and 3, and the Mobile to Mobile channel. All base and mobile units can use all 7 frequencies. Each barracks picks one of the 3 sets, i.e. Base 1 and Mobile 1, that gives them some degree of freedom from the other nearby barracks. Base always transmits on the base frequency and the cars always transmit on the mobile frequency. The problem with scanners is that the cars are low powered and the bases usually have their antennas high on mountains or structurs. Sounds like a ham repeater right? Except mobile transmissions are not re-transmitted by the base units. This means that when you are mobile, you ususlly don't pick up the cars except when they are fairly close ( a couple of miles) but after the car has been lurking for a while, there is usually a CB report of it. There are also frequencies in the call book that are cleverly labeled as to who they belong to but the State Police use. mikey at trsvax
mikey@trsvax.UUCP (11/22/84)
Unless the law against scanners in PA is fairly new, there is no law on the books in PA. Philladelphia TRIES to nail people with scanners, to the point of harrassing stores that sold scanners with 12 volt supplies or batteries a few years ago, but Philadelphia is anopther country anyway. Besides, If you have a Ham ticket, a lot of states that have anti scanner laws will exempt you from the regulation, or issue you a free permit. I ran a store in PA a few years ago and the police even told me what their "secret" frequencies were, as long as I didn't stock up on the crystals for sale, but for my own use. mikey at trsvax
david@ukma.UUCP (David Herron) (11/26/84)
[Aaauuummmmmmm! Aaauuummmmmmm! Spare me oh devourer of lines!] > From: mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) > Subject: Police scanners and speeding > Message-ID: <1896@pegasus.UUCP> > Date: Mon, 12-Nov-84 01:08:41 EST > Okay, so I have my Cobra CB and have ordered my Escort "Passport" > radar detector, but there is yet another piece of anti-speed-trap > gear that I thought I'd toss out to net.auto readers: VHF scanners. > Does anyone have any experience with them? In particular: > 1. Are all (state) police calls on a single frequency within that state? Probably not. My experience with scanners is 3 years working for my Dad's towing company. We had a scanner in the office and I was expected to listen to the *CITY* police bands. (We didn't even have crystals for the state police). The range on those radio's are somewhat limited. Our police operate in at around 150 MHZ which is limited mostly to line of site. The range of transmission has VERY much to do with the height of the towers, and second on the power of the radios. Our police have trouble communicating with officers (sometimes) at the edge of the COUNTY (albeit, they are down in some 200 foot deep ravine next to the river sometimes) much less being able to transmit somewhere across the state. Also, police channels can be very very busy. In Lexington (a town of around 200,000) the dispatchers are VERY harried on friday and saturday nights. I don't think a whole state could be run through one dispatch channel. > 2. Do police cars radio in their position when they stop, especially > with respect to stopping to set up speed traps? For purposes of channel traffic, no, they only give a position when it seems necessary. Some examples are 1) they are ready for dinner, and give the location, 2) they are being given a dispatch, and feel like giving their location. A lot depends (apparently) on what they feel like doing. Bigger places may control this more tightly. > 3. How well do these units work inside a car if connected to an > external antenna? I have seen them running well with just the builtin antenna. But that was with only the local police. An external antenna might be necessary for pulling them in from a distance. > 4. Are there any states where such things are illegal (even if the > law is of questionable constitutionality)? I believe it is illegal in KY to have scanners in a vehicle. I don't know for sure and don't think any police ever mentioned it to any of our drivers. (But then, we work with the police all the time so are considered special? I do know we "get away" with some things sometimes.) > 5. Any other comments, suggestions? Scanners can be a LOT of fun. But you have to understand the codes to know what is going on. Once you do though, it is just like a second language. If I were to buy a scanner for myself I would get that bearcat that is controllable through an rs-232 port. (It's not portable but it has a lot of neat features). For a car-mounted scanner, any of the "programmables" would be good, just to save hassling with crystals. Use the computer controlled scanner to find new channels, and program them into the car scanner. The policy around here when setting up special enforcement thingies (read as "speed traps") is for them to talk about it as little as possible on the air. In fact, the police are as careful as can be with phrasing while on the air. They *know* they are being listened to, and want to limit the spread of information as much as possible. But with experience I could tell exactly what was happening most of the time. (This was with long portions of a full time job being spent listening to them talk, maybe 25 hours per week). Tell-tale signs were somebody mentioning "special duty", certain patrol numbers doing a lot of traffic stops, certain patrol numbers being out of the "normal" numbering sequence. Around here, the unit numbers are 3 digit numbers, first is sector number, second is shift number, third is beat number. There were 3 actual sectors, and a fourth for special officers. By carefully listening to what the "fourth sector" officers were up to, one could know where the speed traps were located at. > Radio Shack seems to have a variety of models ranging in price > from $100 to $350, which could be a lot cheaper than an insurance > surcharge for a ticket. > Note 1: I am mostly interested in using this in the New Jersey/New > York/Penna. area, especially central Jersey and New York Thruway > and Northway to Montreal. How hilly is all that? (I know Penn. is, but it's been forever sice I've been to nj though.) The things which will make it hard to recieve transmissions will be hills, buildings, or heavy trees. On the other hand, the police themselves will want to get through most of the time and would have a better set up (for getting through mountains/hills) than my local police do. > Note 1a: The Northway is almost completely empty of traffic when > I've been on it, which is not to say that New York is above > issuing speeding tickets there. > Note 2: I am not at all interested in flames about speeding. The > waste of two extra hours of travel time between NJ and Montreal which > would be required if the speed limit were obeyed is unacceptable. I can't drive 55 either. > Thanks for any info. > -- Mike^Z [ihnp4!, allegra!] pegasus!mzal or Zaleski@Rutgers ----------------------------------------- David Herron (University of Kentucky Department of Mathatical Sciences) Phone: (606) 257-4244 (phone will be answered as "Vax Lab", usually). (606) 254-7820 /------- Arpa-Net unmvax----\ / research >---/----------------/----------- anlams!ukma!david boulder---/ / decvax!ucbvax ---/ (or cbosgd!hasmed!qusavx!ukma!david) For arpa-net, anlams has the name ANL-MCS. (i.e. use "ukma!david"@ANL-MCS). (Aborted funny line)
parnass@ihu1h.UUCP (Bob Parnass, AJ9S) (11/28/84)
> I believe it is illegal in KY to have scanners in a vehicle. I don't > know for sure and don't think any police ever mentioned it to any of > our drivers. (But then, we work with the police all the time so are > considered special? I do know we "get away" with some things sometimes.) According to a chart available from the Scanner Ass'n of North America (240 Fencl Lane, Hillside, IL 60162), here's information on scanner laws in Kentucky: Installation in vehicles prohibited, except for law enforcement officers, under certain conditions. Exemptions: tow trucks, commercial/educational radio, peace officers licensed by supervisor, N.O.A.A. weather permittees, news media. This chart contains scanner law information for each state. Illinois, by the way, has no scanner laws per se. Using information you hear over a scanner for illegal purposes (e.g. evading or eluding a peace officer) may be a federal violation. -- =============================================================================== Bob Parnass, Bell Telephone Laboratories - ihnp4!ihu1h!parnass - (312)979-5414