MUHRTH@tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr) (11/11/90)
Which graphics adapter offering a minimum resolution of 800x600 is
the best in resolution, speed and price for work under Win 3.0?
I have tried an Optima 1024i (based on Tseng 3000K chipset) but it
seems to be rather slow.
Can you recommend the Genoa 6400 A, the Video-7 1024i, the Trident 512K,
......?
Thanks for every hint.
Thomas -
-------
Thomas Muhr, Technical University of Berlin, BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11
Project ATLAS - Computer Based Tools for Qualitative Research
"Computers, like every technology, are a vehicle
for the transformation of tradition." (WINOGRAD/FLORES)my@dtg.nsc.com (Michael Yip) (11/13/90)
I heard that the NEC Graphics Engine is very good and fast. I used the Video-7 1024i and VRAM card and I wasn't impressd. -- Mike my@dtg.nsc.com
gooey@helix.nih.gov (Sean Graham) (11/13/90)
In article <1511@frapper.nsc.com> my@frapper.UUCP (Michael Yip) writes: >I heard that the NEC Graphics Engine is very good and fast. >I used the Video-7 1024i and VRAM card and I wasn't impressd. > >-- Mike > my@dtg.nsc.com The NEC Multisync Graphics Engine is an excellent card. In all the reviews I've seen it's come out as one of the most recommended. The only other card that I've seen that will come close to it in terms of raw speed is the Renaissance GRX Card. BTW, if anyone is interested in picking one up very cheap, reply via email. It's the 1MB version. Sean -- || Sean N. Graham BIX: sean.graham || || National Institutes of Health gooey@helix.nih.gov || || "This is a test of the Emergency Broadcasting System. This is just a || || test. In the event of a real emergency you would most likely be dead." ||
tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu (Tom Haapanen) (11/14/90)
Michael Yip <my@frapper.UUCP> writes: > I heard that the NEC Graphics Engine is very good and fast. Well, I'm about to start convincing my boss to buy me a high-power graphics card for the new machine I'm getting, and I'm very interested in the TIGA boards (specifically NEC Graphics Engine and Hercules Graphics Station). So two questions follow: 1. Has anyone tested one either of these? Are they really faster than, say, 8514 boards? 2. Can I use a monochrome monitor as a second monitor in conjunction with one of these? I absolutely need a secondary monitor for Windows development. Thanks in advance... [ \tom haapanen --- university of waterloo --- tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu ] [ "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
my@dtg.nsc.com (Michael Yip) (11/14/90)
Well, I heard that the NEC Graphics Engine is very fast. But from what I understand, Window 3.0 still does almost all the low/high level graphics primitives using the host CPU (80386) on the PC. Although there is a TI30410(sp?) on the Hercule and the NEC board, I am not sure how much is the onboard processor helping Window 3.0. Well, it is faster somehow. However, if you are doing CAD, say AutoCAD, then I think that both boards provide custom drivers that is supposed to run the graphics primitives much faster. Anyhow, the NEC Graphics Engine is a good card, but I would probably buy the Hercule one just to support the American inductrial. ;) -- Mike my@dtg.nsc.com
geoffs@gssc.UUCP (Geoff Shapiro) (11/15/90)
In article <1990Nov14.030313.16366@watserv1.waterloo.edu> tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu (Tom Haapanen) writes: >Michael Yip <my@frapper.UUCP> writes: >> I heard that the NEC Graphics Engine is very good and fast. > >Well, I'm about to start convincing my boss to buy me a high-power graphics >card for the new machine I'm getting, and I'm very interested in the TIGA >boards (specifically NEC Graphics Engine and Hercules Graphics Station). TI has done a good job of making TIGA synonymous with 34010 -- but it isn't really true! 34010 cards often run one of several graphics interfaces and one of the graphic interfaces is called TIGA. TIGA was developed by TI. Another graphics interface, and the one which the MGE uses, is called DGIS. DGIS was developed by my company, Graphic Software Systems, and is a mature product, having been in the market for 4 years now. The Hercules Graphic Station does indeed use TIGA for its graphics i/f. >So two questions follow: > > 1. Has anyone tested one either of these? Are they really faster > than, say, 8514 boards? Yes, the MGE with DGIS and the Windows DGIS display driver do benchmark out faster than an 8514/A and associated Windows driver. The benchmark used was the PCLabs Benchmark program. As is always the case, on some things the MGE is faster than 8514/A and on other things the 8514/A is faster. The overall numbers, weighted for importance of function, tilt towards the MGE. > 2. Can I use a monochrome monitor as a second monitor in conjunction > with one of these? I absolutely need a secondary monitor for > Windows development. Yes, you may use a secondary monitor in conjunction with the MGE. A mono monitor may be used and our Windows DGIS display drivers support this during installation. -- UUCP: tektronix!sequent!gssc!geoffs INTERNET: geoffs@gssc.gss.com PHONE: (503) 641-2200 USMAIL: Graphic Software Systems * GSS is a wholly owned subsidiary * 9590 S.W. Gemini Dr. * of Spectragraphics, Corp. * Beaverton, OR 97005 USA
jls@hsv3.UUCP (James Seidman) (11/15/90)
In article <1519@berlioz.nsc.com> my@berlioz.UUCP (Michael Yip) writes: >But from what I understand, Window 3.0 still does almost >all the low/high level graphics primitives using the >host CPU (80386) on the PC. Although there is a TI30410(sp?) >on the Hercule and the NEC board, I am not sure how much >is the onboard processor helping Window 3.0. Well, it is >faster somehow. How much of the work the host CPU does depends on how the display driver is written. There is a great deal of opportunity in the driver to offload work to a TMS34010 (although I thought the boards mentioned used TMS34020s... I could well be wrong, though). One of the best examples is block transfers, or BLTs, which happen every time you move a window. Another is pattern fills, which happen all the time. The list goes on and on... -- Jim Seidman (Drax), the accidental engineer. "It doesn't have to work... they'll be paralyzed just from laughing at me." - Dr. Who, _Shada_ UUCP: ames!vsi1!hsv3!jls INTERNET: hsv3.UUCP!jls@apple.com
geoffs@gssc.UUCP (Geoff Shapiro) (11/15/90)
In article <1519@berlioz.nsc.com> my@berlioz.UUCP (Michael Yip) writes: >Anyhow, the NEC Graphics Engine is a good card, but I would >probably buy the Hercule one just to support the American >inductrial. ;) > >-- Mike > my@dtg.nsc.com My company designed the MGE for NEC and we wrote the software for it. By buying a NEC MGE you ARE supporting American industry! Besides, how many parts on the Hercules Graphics Station really were made in the good old US of A anyway? -- UUCP: tektronix!sequent!gssc!geoffs INTERNET: geoffs@gssc.gss.com PHONE: (503) 641-2200 USMAIL: Graphic Software Systems * GSS is a wholly owned subsidiary * 9590 S.W. Gemini Dr. * of Spectragraphics, Corp. * Beaverton, OR 97005 USA
c60c-3fz@web-1e.berkeley.edu (In Sik Rhee) (11/15/90)
In article <1519@berlioz.nsc.com> my@berlioz.UUCP (Michael Yip) writes: >Well, I heard that the NEC Graphics Engine is very fast. > .... >Anyhow, the NEC Graphics Engine is a good card, but I would >probably buy the Hercule one just to support the American >inductrial. ;) > Also, the Hercules Graphics Station Card blows away the competition when you start talking price vs. performance... it out-performs the NEC by far, for less cost (and is more upgradable, etc etc)
c60c-3fz@web-1e.berkeley.edu (In Sik Rhee) (11/15/90)
In article <6452@gssc.UUCP> geoffs@gssc.UUCP (Geoff Shapiro) writes: >In article <1519@berlioz.nsc.com> my@berlioz.UUCP (Michael Yip) writes: >>Anyhow, the NEC Graphics Engine is a good card, but I would >>probably buy the Hercule one just to support the American >>inductrial. ;) >> >>-- Mike >> my@dtg.nsc.com > >My company designed the MGE for NEC and we wrote the software for it. By >buying a NEC MGE you ARE supporting American industry! Besides, how many >parts on the Hercules Graphics Station really were made in the good old >US of A anyway? > > Zap me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NEC stand for Nippon Electronics Corporation or something like that? It's one of the largest Japanese Electronics Firms out there... I don't see how buying a Japanese product would support American industry. As for Hercules, they're located about 2 miles from where I sit, right in Berkeley, CA. and to the best of my knowledge, their product (the Graphics Station) is far superior than the NEC Graphics Engine, which I think is becoming obsolete... True, the Graphics Engine is a standard, but it's been out in the market for a while... while it may have been a great innovation at its release, it hasn't really gone anywhere as far as newer implementations, etc (kind of like the Video-7 VRAM card) Just my opinions... I'm in no way affliated with Hercules, blah blah etc
leoh@hardy.hdw.csd.harris.com (Leo Hinds) (11/15/90)
In article <5783@hsv3.UUCP> jls@hsv3.UUCP (James Seidman) writes: >How much of the work the host CPU does depends on how the display driver >is written. There is a great deal of opportunity in the driver to >offload work to a TMS34010 <text deleted> Which brings up the obvious question ... which cards, if any, are "optimized" for Win3 ... I assume that by that I mean that the card implements most/all the Win3 specific functions, so that the driver is in effect doing nothing but passing the stuff to the card ... leoh@hdw.csd.harris.com Leo Hinds (305)973-5229 Gfx ... gfx ... :-) whfg orpnhfr V "ebg"grq zl fvtangher svyr lbh guvax V nz n creireg ?!!!!!!? ... znlor arkg gvzr
geoffs@gssc.UUCP (Geoff Shapiro) (11/16/90)
In article <1990Nov14.225552.4015@agate.berkeley.edu> c60c-3fz@web-1e.berkeley.edu (In Sik Rhee) writes: >In article <6452@gssc.UUCP> geoffs@gssc.UUCP (Geoff Shapiro) writes: >>In article <1519@berlioz.nsc.com> my@berlioz.UUCP (Michael Yip) writes: >>>Anyhow, the NEC Graphics Engine is a good card, but I would >>>probably buy the Hercule one just to support the American >>>inductrial. ;) >>> >>>-- Mike >>> my@dtg.nsc.com >> >>My company designed the MGE for NEC and we wrote the software for it. By >>buying a NEC MGE you ARE supporting American industry! Besides, how many >>parts on the Hercules Graphics Station really were made in the good old >>US of A anyway? >> >> > >Zap me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NEC stand for Nippon Electronics Corporation >or something like that? It's one of the largest Japanese Electronics Firms >out there... I don't see how buying a Japanese product would support >American industry. I don't think that I really want to get into an extended you're right, I'm right, type of argument (but a short argument might be fine 8-)). BUT, have you ever heard of royalties? Every MGE which is sold helps to pay my paycheck. I'm American, born in New York, working in Oregon. My company is American. So, it is true that buying MGE cards does go towards supporting American industry. And how much of the American public gets fooled into buying American without really knowing where the product they are buying is produced? It's real common (especially in the computer and auto industry) for American companies to sell products manufactured in countries where it is cheaper to make. This whole argument is muddied by reality. >As for Hercules, they're located about 2 miles from where I sit, right >in Berkeley, CA. and to the best of my knowledge, their product (the Yep, Hercules is undoubtedly an American corporation, no argument there. But like I said in my original message -- do you actually know how many parts on the Graphics Station card were manufactured in and bought from American companies by Hercules? Maybe I am wrong, but I would be willing to bet that a major percentage of the components on the card are bought from Japanese companies. >Graphics Station) is far superior than the NEC Graphics Engine, which >I think is becoming obsolete... True, the Graphics Engine is a standard, Just your opinion (as you state below). I have many messages from people on Compuserve that would love to argue this point with you. >but it's been out in the market for a while... while it may have been >a great innovation at its release, it hasn't really gone anywhere as far >as newer implementations, etc (kind of like the Video-7 VRAM card) What other features do competing 34010 cards offer that the MGE doesn't? Sure, the Graphics Station offers 24 bpp but have you noticed the plethora of sw which supports that mode (or lack of it)? and the speed at which the sw which does, runs? The MGE still has innovations on it which make it superior for text output and pattern fills which haven't yet been matched by other 34010 cards. And as far as price/performance (from a previous msg by you), please give me some solid figures as far as the base price of the Graphics Station (and what you get for that price). What does it take in terms of any additional upgrades and money for those upgrades to get the adapter to run at 1024x768x256? I'd like some info here because I am ignorant of the Graphics Station's pricing structure. >Just my opinions... I'm in no way affliated with Hercules, blah blah etc Thanks. I am (indirectly) affiliated with NEC but still feel that my opinions are fairly objective. Now perhaps we could return this newsgroup back to issues more relevant to Microsoft Windows? -- UUCP: tektronix!sequent!gssc!geoffs INTERNET: geoffs@gssc.gss.com PHONE: (503) 641-2200 USMAIL: Graphic Software Systems * GSS is a wholly owned subsidiary * 9590 S.W. Gemini Dr. * of Spectragraphics, Corp. * Beaverton, OR 97005 USA
rpk@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Robert Krajewski) (11/18/90)
Does anybody have any comments about the Renaissance GRX Rendition II board ? It seemed to benchmark well, but a PC maven acquaintance of mine said it wasn't very good, that you could pick one up for $50 at the local parts store. I'm taking that statement with a rather large grain of salt right now. Also, what kind performance difference is there between a board based on the TMS 34010 and one based in the newer 34020 chip ? ---- Robert P. Krajewski Internet: rpk@ai.mit.edu ; Lotus: robert_krajewski.lotus@crd.dnet.lotus.com
bradd@gssc.UUCP (Brad[null] Davis) (11/20/90)
In article <11940@life.ai.mit.edu> rpk@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Robert Krajewski) writes: >Does anybody have any comments about the Renaissance GRX Rendition II >board ? It seemed to benchmark well, but a PC maven acquaintance of >mine said it wasn't very good, that you could pick one up for $50 at >the local parts store. I'm taking that statement with a rather large >grain of salt right now. Compared to most 34010 boards, the Rendition doesn't have very much memory. This makes it cheaper, but slower where bitmap operations (like Windows) are involved. But $50 is at least an order of magnitude too low. If he insists, tell him to buy one and I'll give him $100 for it (after all, it is still faster than my Super VGA at home). >Also, what kind performance difference is there between a board based >on the TMS 34010 and one based in the newer 34020 chip ? The 34020 is indeed much faster than the 34010. But it is also very much more expensive. Also, the 34020 boards tend to include huge amounts of memory (the 34020 in my box has 5 megabytes) so to some degree you are comparing apples and oranges. >---- >Robert P. Krajewski >Internet: rpk@ai.mit.edu ; Lotus: robert_krajewski.lotus@crd.dnet.lotus.com BIAS ALERT: GSS owns some 34010 board designs. But they only rent me. Random drivel from the keyboard of: +--+ Brad Davis, GSS Inc, Beaverton OR _________ -_--_ ________________|80|__ bradd@gssc (503) 641-2200 -- -- =o==o= -- -- -- -- +__+ Disclaimer: The boss disavows ----------------------------------||--- all knowledge of my actions. ||