garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) (11/17/90)
I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games (minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire). In general I think it's great and am very proud of his abilities. The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any of the icons he sees. I don't want to discourage his curiosity, but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode [yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)]. I will probably end up just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format hard disk, erase all files, etc.). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) (11/19/90)
In article <1990Nov20.065925.14745@ivucsb.sba.ca.us> todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us >(Todd Day) writes: >Anyway, has anyone found a way to protect against this sort of thing? >Will making the group folders and the .ini files "READ ONLY" prevent >people from changing things around? > What a great idea! I tried this and it works. I made my son's group read only and then I tried deleting some apps from it. I got a dialogue box from Windows saying that I couldn't do that because the group was protected. Then I tried resizing the application group and exiting Windows with the save changes option. Again, Windows informed me that it wouldn't save my changes to the protected group. Thanks to Todd Day for a simple and elegant solution to part of the problem. Note that this helpful hint cannot be found in the Windows manual. It certainly belongs there. Also, remember that you can change filew attributes from File Manager - I changed them with the Norton before I realized that I could do this within Windows. ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o Saul Traiger oooooo Cognitive Science o ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o Internet:traiger@oxy.edu *----* Occidental College o ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o CIS:71631,717 oooooo Los Angeles, CA 90041 o ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
wood@spock (Dale Wood) (11/20/90)
>I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has >learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games >The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any >of the icons he sees. I don't want to discourage his curiosity, I have the same concerns and views - The damage I face however is not as fatal (Yet) - My DOS Icon Insists on chosing Drive A> for its default prompt. I have not yet found what my son found - How to change this drive path - without creating my own PIF file for command.com. ...Dale Wood wood@software.mitel.com ( don't trust reply command )
traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) (11/20/90)
In article <719@retix.retix.COM> garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) writes: >I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has >learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games >(minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire). In general I think it's >great and am very proud of his abilities. > >The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any >of the icons he sees. I don't want to discourage his curiosity, >but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode >[yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)]. I will probably end up >just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this >powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format >hard disk, erase all files, etc.). > >Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! I have a similar situation - a 25 Mhz 386, windows, and a 5 year old. I set up an application group just for my 5 year old, with his name as the name of the application group. I've told him that he can click away at the roughly 18 applications in that group, but not on any others. I've copied some applications which interest him from other groups, such as clock, notepad and paint, but things which are not in his group are off limits. He seems to be respecting those limits so far. I still have some concerns because he is interested in saving his work, particularly his art work, and he's already discovered the misfortunes associated with overwriting an existing file with a new file with the same file name. So he's lost some of his "work", but none of mine. My worst fear: I'll walk in the door one day and he'll be sitting at the computer and he'll say: "Daddy, I just found a great new game - it's called Wipedisk! ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o Saul Traiger oooooo Cognitive Science o ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o Internet:traiger@oxy.edu *----* Occidental College o ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o CIS:71631,717 oooooo Los Angeles, CA 90041 o ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
michael@sequent.UUCP (Michael Squires) (11/20/90)
In article <719@retix.retix.COM> garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) writes: >I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has >learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games >(minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire). In general I think it's >great and am very proud of his abilities. > >... is how to limit this >powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format >hard disk, erase all files, etc.). > >Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! You might get ahold of an alternate "shell" for windows (e.g. Command Post, hDc Windows Express, Aporia, etc.) and use it to set up a restricted environmentment just for your sun (i.e. one that keeps him in a particular directory, allows "paint", "sol", etc., and doesn't allow dos escapes, formatting, etc.). It doesn't have to be fancy, just enough to keep him within some bounds. If you want, you could keep a separate "win.ini" file around for him to use & just copy that in when you're gonna turn the system over to him. Michael Squires Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. 15450 SW Koll Parkway Beaverton, OR 97006 (503) 578-9891 michael@sequent.com
sbishop@desire.wright.edu (11/20/90)
In article <719@retix.retix.COM>, garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) writes: > I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has > learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games > (minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire). In general I think it's > great and am very proud of his abilities. > > The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any > of the icons he sees. I don't want to discourage his curiosity, > but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode > [yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)]. I will probably end up > just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this > powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format > hard disk, erase all files, etc.). > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Get him a Commodore 64 for his very own computer. There are lots of neat games, it's a cheap computer and will take huge amounts of abuse. You can get an entire set up, computer, monitor, and disk drive for under five hundred new, much less than that used. My kids wore out two C64s over ten years and are now graduated to the IBM. They had so much fun with the C64. It was funny to see them using the flight monitor program. One would do air speed and direction, the other would work on stablization. This was at seven and ten years of age. The flight simulator is really fun and they usually crashed in flames after about ten minutes.
gaz@apollo.HP.COM (Gary Zaidenweber) (11/20/90)
From article <719@retix.retix.COM>, by garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star): > I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has > learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games > (minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire). In general I think it's > great and am very proud of his abilities. > > The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any > of the icons he sees. I don't want to discourage his curiosity, > but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode > [yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)]. I will probably end up > just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this > powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format > hard disk, erase all files, etc.). > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! I've got the same problem, 4-year-old on a 386! I'm probably going to make her a separate 10MB partition and a floppy which she would be "required" to boot off of that would make my main partition read-only. If it works, I'll be a happy camper, if not I'll probably buy her her own PC (XT with EGA can be had for around $500) and tell her to keep the mits off of mine (I use it to run her and her sister's daycare center and can't afford to risk undetectable data corruption -- yes I do daily backups, but not daily restores.) I'd rather spend the money than take the risk. Its neat to see how the world has changed. Gary Zaidenweber +1-508-256-6600x4360 | You're only young Apollo Systems Division, Hewlett Packard Company | once, but if you UUCP: {umix|decvax|mit-eddie}!apollo!gaz | do it right, ARPA: gaz@apollo.HP.COM FAX: +1-508-250-4943 | once is enough!
) (11/20/90)
I suggest an AUTOEXEC.BAT file which asks for a password. With the batch file, you can choose a different WIN.INI file for yourself and your son. Also, you can change the attribute of certain files (e.g. COMMAND.COM) so your son can't modify it. I admit my method has its bugs, but you can use it until you find one which is very close to being fool-proof. +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Santanu Sircar BITNET: ssircar@umaecs.bitnet | | University of Massachusetts/Amherst INTERNET: ssircar@ecs.umass.edu | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
steve@Advansoft.COM (Steve Savitzky) (11/20/90)
I have a five-year-old with a Mac and a non-windows PC; the Mac case
is probably similar to Windows. I also have guests rummaging around
to find games--this is probably worse than kids. I've done three
things:
1. The only really dangerous thing is dragging files into the trash.
I have a folder that is positioned over the trashcan when open,
called "Lid For Trashcan".
2. All really dangerous applications are buried in non-visible areas
of deeply-nested folders. The folder with all the games stays
on the desktop where people can find it easily.
3. New users are told not to move any icons, not to scroll open
folders (everything useful is visible), and to stay in the game
folder and its sub-folders. My kid learned very quickly how to
get to the sub-folder with her games in it (it has her name on
it), and no longer views the desktop as something to play with.
A non-windows PC is a different problem, since it's so easy to hang up
most applications by randomly typing on the keyboard. I really ought
to write a kid-safe program, but I haven't yet.
I believe there are programs that let you write-protect your hard disk
with a password required for unlocking it. Failing that, you could
write a script that sets PATH to a directory that contains nothing but
safe games. You might even be able to start up Windows in that state.
--
\ --Steve Savitzky-- \ ADVANsoft Research Corp \ REAL hackers use an AXE! \
\ steve@advansoft.COM \ 4301 Great America Pkwy \ #include<disclaimer.h> \
\ arc!steve@apple.COM \ Santa Clara, CA 95954 \ 408-727-3357 \
\__ steve@arc.UUCP _________________________________________________________todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) (11/20/90)
traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) writes: % %In article <719@retix.retix.COM> garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) writes: %>I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games. He has %>learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games %> %I have a similar situation - a 25 Mhz 386, windows, and a 5 year old. Yes, I have a similar problem, but it's with a bunch of middle aged engineers! Unfortunately, they are all magnetics people, and don't have that "hacker" instinct. There are a few in the group that think they do, however. They all share two machines for report writing and statistics gathering. Some of them insist on rearanging all of the icons all over the place, making things hard to find for others. They also like to change the setup stuff just to be pains in the ass. Anyway, has anyone found a way to protect against this sort of thing? Will making the group folders and the .ini files "READ ONLY" prevent people from changing things around? -- Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd Zen koan: *finger = moon; /* finger != moon */
pmoore@hemel.bull.co.uk (Paul Moore) (11/21/90)
I have the same problem (kids + pc + windows = worry). The idea of using a different win.ini is a good plan, the problem is is that it doesnt stop them trashing files. Ok i can leave out file manager , but when they draw a picture in paintbrush there are these nice dialog boxes inviting them to save all over the place. The can save "doggy.pcx" as c:\command.com. Not very likely, but still worrying. Whats this aporia I saw mentioned. PS have any of you got a good free logo? under windows?
philba@microsoft.UUCP (Phil BARRETT) (12/01/90)
In article <127690@tiger.oxy.edu> traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) writes: >What a great idea! I tried this and it works. I made my son's group read >only and then I tried deleting some apps from it. I got a dialogue box from >Windows saying that I couldn't do that because the group was protected. >Then I tried resizing the application group and exiting Windows with the >save changes option. Again, Windows informed me that it wouldn't save my >changes to the protected group. > In addition, you can create a `customized' installation of windows that only gives the kid access to the various games and such and eliminates the really dangerous ones (like file manager and maybe the dos prompt and so on). What you can do is set up a directory that contains only the .grp files, various *.ini files and win.com. Set up your machine so that when you boot, it cd's to that directory and has the real windows directory on the path (and if you like starts windows). When you start windows, it will use these ini & grp files rather than the ones in your own configuration. Then, configure the groups so there is no file manager, setup, control panel, ... icons. Then make the grp & ini files read-only. When you want to use the system, just CD out of the kids directory and when you start windows, you get your version. You can also use this trick to configure different versions for different users. This is essentially how you would set up windows on a diskless workstation and I believe it is discussed in the networks.txt file that shipped with the product. phil the above opinions are just mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.