6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) (11/07/90)
I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win" at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to enhanced. After I created a 2-meg cache on my hard disk (the actual name of this procedure slips my mind at the moment) and typed "win /3" at the DOS prompt, it ran in enhanced mode with some 2.7 megs of RAM. Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? Thanks... - Boris Burtin
djbpitt@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David J Birnbaum) (11/07/90)
In article <7017@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes: >I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some >questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win" >at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k >RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to >enhanced.... >Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? I don't know about normal, but I get the same results. I am running Windows 3.0 on a 386sx with 2M. When I type 'win', it starts in *real* mode. If I type 'win/3' it starts in 386 mode. As I understand the internal 'best guess' approach, Windows should default to 386 mode for my system. No big deal; I just start it with the '/3' switch. One reason may be that I use 4dos, rather than command.com. One in- teresting consequence is that Windows refuses to run in standard mode; if I type 'win/s', it dumps be back at the command line and tells me that I am doing something wrong. This doesn't happen under command.com. As I said, typing 'win/3' solves all my problems. But I am curious about why I should have to do this. --David ======================================================================= David J. Birnbaum djbpitt@vms.cis.pitt.edu [Internet] djbpitt@pittvms.bitnet [Bitnet]
jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) (11/08/90)
In article <7017@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes: >I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some >questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win" >at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k >RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to >enhanced.... >Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? Last time I looked the spec it said Win3 defaults to enhanced mode only if you have a '386 (obviously) *and* you have 2M of memory *available to DOS*. If DOS can't see at least 2M you get standard mode. I have this situation on a NEC PowerMate/386 with 2M of memory installed, but which uses the top of that address space for shadow RAM. Since DOS never sees that space Windows declares that the conditions for enhanced mode aren't satisfied and defaults to standard. Other problems with enhanced mode I see frequently (although they don't seem to apply to you) are users with badly downlevel HIMEM.SYS drivers (including WIN3 beta versions), non-Microsoft replacements for HIMEM (please, Qualitas...send me a working version of 386^max...), and users who started out on a /286 machine and copied the WIN3 directories to a /386 (the setup is vastly different...best to reinstall Windows). Joe Morris
jpl5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jay P Lessler) (11/08/90)
In article <jcmorris.658004352@mwunix.mitre.org> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > >In article <7017@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes: > >>I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some >>questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win" >>at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k >>RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to >>enhanced.... >>Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? > >Last time I looked the spec it said Win3 defaults to enhanced mode only >if you have a '386 (obviously) *and* you have 2M of memory *available to >DOS*. If DOS can't see at least 2M you get standard mode. > >Joe Morris Are you sure about that? I am running Windows on a '386 with **1.6M** of memory. Windows seems to be using disk space as extra (slow) ram, because it boots up in '386 mode and shows about 4.5M free ram. --Jay Lessler
todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) (11/08/90)
jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:
%I have this situation on a NEC PowerMate/386 with 2M of memory installed,
%but which uses the top of that address space for shadow RAM. Since
%DOS never sees that space Windows declares that the conditions for
%enhanced mode aren't satisfied and defaults to standard.
I have the same NEC machine you have, and had the same problem, until...
one of two things happened...
1) I finally clicked the "save current settings" when exiting program
manager...
2) I installed a PERMANENT 5MB swap.
Now, my NEC boots windows into enhanced mode automatically and I don't
have to add /3 to the command line.
Good luck!
--
Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd
Zen koan:
*finger = moon; /* finger != moon */jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) (11/09/90)
In a recent article jpl5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jay P Lessler) writes: >In article <jcmorris.658004352@mwunix.mitre.org> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >>In article <7017@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes: >>>I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some >>>questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win" >>>at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k >>>RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to >>>enhanced.... >>>Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? >>Last time I looked the spec it said Win3 defaults to enhanced mode only >>if you have a '386 (obviously) *and* you have 2M of memory *available to >>DOS*. If DOS can't see at least 2M you get standard mode. >Are you sure about that? I am running Windows on a '386 with **1.6M** of >memory. Windows seems to be using disk space as extra (slow) ram, because >it boots up in '386 mode and shows about 4.5M free ram. Strange. The Windows manual, p. 428, is slightly inconsistent. Hear the Word: Windows uses the following criteria when deciding what mode to use: * Windows runs in 386 enhanced mode if your system is an 80386 computer (or higher) with at least 2MB of memory (640K of conventional memory and 1024K of extended memory). * Windows runs in standard mode if your system is an 80286 computer (or higher) with at least 1MB of memory (640K of conventional memory and 256K of extended memory). * Windows runs in real mode if [none of the above]. Note the conflict in the first bullet between "2MB" and "640K conventional memory plus 1024K extended memory". One of my machines is a NEC PowerMate 386 with 640+1024K; it defaults to standard mode, although I can force it to 386 mode with the /3 switch. Joe Morris
philba@microsoft.UUCP (Phil BARRETT) (11/09/90)
There seems to be some confusion over what windows 3 wants to see in
order to run in the various modes.
In order to automatically run in 386 enhanced mode, windows needs:
- a 386SX, 386DX or 486 processor
- an installed XMS 2.0 driver (i.e. himem.sys, the one shipped
with windows)
- a minimum of 1024Kb extended memory (via XMS)
In order to automatically run in standard mode, windows needs:
- a 286, 386SX, 386DX or 486 processor
- an installed XMS 2.0 driver
- a minimum of 256Kb of extended memory (via XMS)
Windows prefers to default to enhanced.
The key word in all this is automatically. You can override the default
via the command line (as pointed out in the mail).
Note that many 2Mb machines (especially C&T based ones) only have
1024Kb extended memory with the remaining 384Kb given to shadow ram.
If you install a disk cache in extended memory (for example smartdrv),
this will reduce the amount of extended memory below the magic 1024K
number and you will get the observed effect. Smartdrv has a feature
where windows can `borrow' memory from it. The smartdrv command line
looks like this:
device=smartdrv <max-mem> <min-mem>
the max-mem param indicated the amount of memory to start with and
the min-mem param defines the amount of memory that windows will leave
when it borrows memory. This is documented in the WUG
In this case, I suspect that you are giving 512Kb to your cacher
(if it were smartdrv is would be device=smartdrv 512 512) and not allowing
for borrowing. You have some choices:
- use smartdrv and let windows borrow it to `zero'
(device=smartdrv.sys 512 0) if enhanced mode is important
to you.
- live with standard mode. Its pretty good if you dont run DOS apps.
- get more memory. Right now it costs about $50/Mb or less.
This is the option I'd take.
- if you are lucky, you can take shadow ram and turn it into
extended memory. not a high probability but worth a shot.
Phil Barrett
uunet!microsoft!philba
Yup, the above opinions are mine and are not
necessarily representative of my employers.
In article <7017@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes:
>I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some
>questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win"
>at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k
>RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to
>enhanced. After I created a 2-meg cache on my hard disk (the actual
>name of this procedure slips my mind at the moment) and typed "win /3"
>at the DOS prompt, it ran in enhanced mode with some 2.7 megs of RAM.
>Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? Thanks...
> - Boris Burtinace@cc.ic.ac.uk (Andriko del Saludo) (11/09/90)
There is certainly no problem with 4dos. I have used it with win 3 in both 2.21, 3.0 and 3.01 incarnations with multiple windowed shells etc on my DELL 320LX (20Mhz 386 sx w/ 4Mb). One problem has cropped up. If you use the 4dos keystack, the stack is echoed in the other open shells. If you try to protect it then onl one shell can be launched. Small problem though. ace -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- - Andreas C. Enotiadis (ace@cc.ic.ac.uk, ace@grathun1.earn, etc) - - (I'm still thinking about something clever to put here...) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
rdc30med@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (LCDR Michael E. Dobson) (11/11/90)
In article <125794@linus.mitre.org> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >In a recent article jpl5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jay P Lessler) writes: >>In article <jcmorris.658004352@mwunix.mitre.org> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > >>>In article <7017@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600bori@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes: > >>>>I'm running Windows 3.0 on my 25mhz 386 with 2 megs, and I had some >>>>questions about this so-called enhanced mode. When I type just "win" >>>>at the command prompt, Windows throws me into STANDARD mode with 907k >>>>RAM. The manual says that with my configuration, it should default to >>>>enhanced.... >>>>Is it normal for Windows not to default to enhanced mode? > >>>Last time I looked the spec it said Win3 defaults to enhanced mode only >>>if you have a '386 (obviously) *and* you have 2M of memory *available to >>>DOS*. If DOS can't see at least 2M you get standard mode. > >>Are you sure about that? I am running Windows on a '386 with **1.6M** of >>memory. Windows seems to be using disk space as extra (slow) ram, because >>it boots up in '386 mode and shows about 4.5M free ram. > >Strange. The Windows manual, p. 428, is slightly inconsistent. Hear the Word: > > Windows uses the following criteria when deciding what mode to use: > > * Windows runs in 386 enhanced mode if your system is an 80386 computer > (or higher) with at least 2MB of memory (640K of conventional memory > and 1024K of extended memory). > > * Windows runs in standard mode if your system is an 80286 computer (or > higher) with at least 1MB of memory (640K of conventional memory and > 256K of extended memory). > > * Windows runs in real mode if [none of the above]. > >Note the conflict in the first bullet between "2MB" and "640K conventional >memory plus 1024K extended memory". One of my machines is a NEC PowerMate 386 >with 640+1024K; it defaults to standard mode, although I can force it to >386 mode with the /3 switch. > >Joe Morris This could be the source of confusion. Does the NEC only have 640K+1024K? My 386/20 clone actually has 640K convnetional + 384K High mem (640-1024K) + 1024K extended for a total of 2 Meg installed. I can use sections of the 384K at the end of the DOS workspace for shadow ram of video and system BIOS ROM. If the NEC doesn't have this extra 384K RAM and you have enabled BIOS shadowing, windows may actually see less than what it wants for enhanced mode. -- Mike Dobson, Sys Admin for | Internet: rdc30med@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil | UUCP: ...uunet!mimsy!nmrdc1!rdc30med AT&T 3B2/600G Sys V R 3.2.2 | BITNET: dobson@usuhsb or nrd0mxd@vmnmdsc WIN/TCP for 3B2 | MCI-Mail: 377-2719 or 0003772719@mcimail.com
rafetmad@oxy.edu (David Ronald Giller) (01/04/91)
>>/ hplsla:comp.windows.ms / jbs@Congruent.COM (Jeffrey Siegal) / 1:30 pm Jan 3, 1991 / >>> Do remember, though, that some >>> applications require 386 enhanced mode (wdeb386 is one example). >>This is not true. Wdeb386 requires a 386 processor, but it works >>perfectly well with Windows in standard mode. >>Jeffrey Siegal >>-------------- >I believe that some new applications, such as Corel Draw 2.0, do require >386 enhanced mode. >Reed Jacobson According to the Windows SDK, there is no programmer's interface difference between standard and 386 enhanced modes. They are both called 'protected' mode. The only differences are in the way that Windows handles non-Windows applications, and how they are swapped out to disk, as well as some added expanded-memory emulation features. The 'protection' that is offered in these modes is supposed to be exactly the same for both. The SDK says that there are some significant differences in the development procedure as far as the programmer's own system goes, but I don't see how a windows app would really care about the differences, seeing as they don't affect them. David Giller (rafetmad@oxy.edu)