zen@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (Zen) (01/30/91)
I would like to begin programming applications for Windows 3, but have no idea on where to start. Are there any toolkits/libraries for aiding Windows 3.0 programming? Preferably for Turbo Pascal 5.5 of Turbo C 2.0 Can anyone recommend any texts/mailing lists on the subject? -- _____ Two elephants fell off a cliff. Boom Boom. // // __ // // / \ I\ I for a good time call // // (-- I \I alias s902114@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au // // \__/ I I Stuart Bishop or zen@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au // ((____________________________________________________________________// -- _____ Two elephants fell off a cliff. Boom Boom. // // __ // // / \ I\ I for a good time call //
jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) (02/01/91)
In article <1991Jan30.145916.15189@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au> zen@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (Zen) writes: >I would like to begin programming applications for Windows 3, but have no idea >on where to start. > >Are there any toolkits/libraries for aiding Windows 3.0 programming? Preferably >for Turbo Pascal 5.5 of Turbo C 2.0 > Well, first off, I CAN tell you that you will need at least MSC 5.1 or Zortech C++ 2.x....that alone will be over 250 dollars. Then you will need the Windows SDK, another 300 dollars. Next, you will want a good Windows debugger, such as, hmmm, Multiscope. About 250 dollars. Then you will NEED a monochrome monitor for watching source as output is directed to color. Another 150 dollars (including card). After THAT, you will want to pick up about 3 or 4 books on programming Windows 3.0, each at about 24.95-39.95. Figure 100 bucks total. After that, if you want a toolkit, most that I know of are either for C++ (C++ Views) or are their own program language (Actor). Neither is cheap. Windows programming is NOT easy. Finally, I would recommend that you post on the windows group, which I can't remember. Something like comp.os.windows.msdos.programmer or some such nonsense. Comp.os.msdos.windows.programmer maybe..who knows. Hope this helped, Brian
jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) (02/01/91)
In article <11258@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> brad@huey.Jpl.Nasa.GOV writes: >Borland is supposed to be releasing Turbo C++ for Windows in mid- >February. This includes a debugger, libraries, the works! No >Microsoft software needed *at all*! No SDK no C 5.1 no Zortech. >This is good news for an area that needs some good competition. Where did you get this information? I have heard of a pending release of Turbo C++ for Windows and Turbo Pascal for Windows, but does anyone know how much they are going to cost? Are you SURE it is February? It seemed to me they said "first half" of 91. I am about to buy a GUI toolkit for a project I am working on, but hell, the only reason I haven't gone with Windows is because of the cost and the fact that I need to use MSC (blech). Also, does Turbo C++ debugger support one monitor operation or do I still need another one (Windows version, that is). Brian
dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu (Duncan Murdoch) (02/01/91)
In article <26610@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >In article <1991Jan30.145916.15189@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au> zen@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (Zen) writes: >>I would like to begin programming applications for Windows 3, but have no idea >>on where to start. >> >>Are there any toolkits/libraries for aiding Windows 3.0 programming? Preferably >>for Turbo Pascal 5.5 of Turbo C 2.0 >> > >Well, first off, I CAN tell you that you will need at least MSC 5.1 or >Zortech C++ 2.x....that alone will be over 250 dollars. Then you will >need the Windows SDK, another 300 dollars. Next, you will want a >good Windows debugger, such as, hmmm, Multiscope. About 250 dollars. It's still just vapourware, but Borland has promised a version of Turbo Pascal for Windows programming in the first half of this year, and has scheduled a press conference about it for sometime this month. Even less substantial: I noticed that one of the mail-order houses is advertising "ObjectVision" for Turbo Pascal in the current Byte; list price is $400, their price is $CALL. Duncan Murdoch dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu
risto@tuura.UUCP (Risto Lankinen) (02/04/91)
altman@sbstaff2.cs.sunysb.edu (Jeff Altman) writes: >{Whether there will be Turbo C++ for Windows speculation deleted} >It is still unclear as to whether Borland will provide an entire >library set to enable Windows programming without the SDK. Well, the libraries aren't actually needed for much more than resolving the import references from Windows' Kernel/GDI/User/other modules, by Microsoft development products (at their current state), either. This is to say, that programming for Windows is already possible (at least in principle) with only the 'lowest-level' object modules (located in xNOCRT.LIB as nocrt.obj and wnull.obj) *and* by knowing the 'argumentation' for function calls (#defines and prototyping). By running the IMPLIB for each kernel.exe, gdi.exe and user.exe one then gets the libraries... Terveisin: Risto Lankinen -- Risto Lankinen / product specialist *************************************** Nokia Data Systems, Technology Dept * 2 2 * THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK * 2 -1 is PRIME! Now working on 2 +1 * replies: risto@yj.data.nokia.fi ***************************************
cids05@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (02/04/91)
In article <26618@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > In article <11258@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> brad@huey.Jpl.Nasa.GOV writes: > >>Borland is supposed to be releasing Turbo C++ for Windows in mid- >>February. This includes a debugger, libraries, the works! No >>Microsoft software needed *at all*! No SDK no C 5.1 no Zortech. >>This is good news for an area that needs some good competition. > > Where did you get this information? I have heard of a pending release of I have just recieved a priority invitation to the Launch of C++ at The Windows show Olympia Feb12th. I won't be going. I expect to receive several more as Borlands Direct mail doesn't seem to have understood how to de-dup. I notice their mail-order label for me has as it's last three lines Glasgow London SE5 9PL Now who's address attributes have I inherited????
brad@huey.Jpl.Nasa.GOV (Brad Hines) (02/05/91)
In article <26618@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: |> |> >Borland is supposed to be releasing Turbo C++ for Windows in mid- |> >February. |> |> Where did you get this information? I have heard of a pending release of |> Turbo C++ for Windows and Turbo Pascal for Windows, but does anyone know |> how much they are going to cost? Are you SURE it is February? It comes from a recent PC Week article. Also, I just got an email or saw a post from someone who has received an invitation to the unveiling of this product on Feb 12th, he said, at some Windows-related expo. It should be pretty cheap. I know of one small software developer that has already placed an order for it directly with Borland, and while I probably shouldn't say exactly how much they paid, it seems to indicate that the pricing will be in line with Borland's other language products. Just about anything Borland sells can be had for $99 if you are already a Borland customer. -- Brad Hines Internet: brad@huey.jpl.nasa.gov Jet Propulsion Lab, Pasadena, California
bcw@rti.rti.org (Bruce Wright) (02/08/91)
In article <985@tuura.UUCP>, risto@tuura.UUCP (Risto Lankinen) writes: > altman@sbstaff2.cs.sunysb.edu (Jeff Altman) writes: > > >{Whether there will be Turbo C++ for Windows speculation deleted} > >It is still unclear as to whether Borland will provide an entire > >library set to enable Windows programming without the SDK. > > Well, the libraries aren't actually needed for much more than resolving the > import references from Windows' Kernel/GDI/User/other modules, by Microsoft > development products (at their current state), either. > > This is to say, that programming for Windows is already possible (at least in > principle) with only the 'lowest-level' object modules (located in xNOCRT.LIB > as nocrt.obj and wnull.obj) *and* by knowing the 'argumentation' for function > calls (#defines and prototyping). By running the IMPLIB for each kernel.exe, > gdi.exe and user.exe one then gets the libraries... You can use something like Turbo C now to program in Windows, but it's a _bit_ more complex than this article seems to imply. The problem is that the Windows calling sequences are different than the normal C calling sequences. First of all, most Windows functions use the Pascal calling sequence; I don't know if Turbo C supports that format or not (I'm not familiar with Turbo C). The Pascal calling sequence has the _subroutine_ responsible for removing the arguments from the stack; it does this by using the "ret n" instruction rather than just the "ret" instruction. That's the major difference, anyway; there's a more minor difference that the arguments are on the stack in the reverse order than the C calling sequence. But if you can prevent your compiler from removing the arguments from the stack in the calling routine a la C, the argument order can be kluged around by just passing the arguments in backwards. If you can't get your compiler to use the Pascal calling convention, it's always possible to write assembler language jacket routines for each of the several hundred Windows functions. (Have fun :-). Another critical issue is that a Windows routine has some special stack fix-ups that are used to allow segment movement during garbage collection. If you are proficient at Windows and assembly code anyway, you can make the appropriate fixups in assembly language "jacket" routines, but the result is not very intuitive, especially if you're just learning Windows. The result of failure to provide the appropriate stack fix-up isn't very subtle - it's usually Big Red Switch time. I do know that Turbo C does not provide the proper stack fix-ups. I don't think I'd recommend this setup to anyone learning Windows unless they were a masochist. I'd suggest waiting to see what Borland is supposed to be announcing next week & see if it is closer to a real Windows development language than what it is now. Bruce C. Wright
baldy@micor.OCUnix.On.Ca (The Bald Eagle) (02/10/91)
I never though that I would post something to this group. In article <11303@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> brad@huey.Jpl.Nasa.GOV writes: >In article <26618@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >|> >|> >Borland is supposed to be releasing Turbo C++ for Windows in mid- >|> >February. >|> >|> Where did you get this information? I have heard of a pending release of >|> Turbo C++ for Windows and Turbo Pascal for Windows, but does anyone know >|> how much they are going to cost? Are you SURE it is February? > >It comes from a recent PC Week article. Also, I just got an email or >saw a post from someone who has received an invitation to the unveiling >of this product on Feb 12th, he said, at some Windows-related expo. Today I met a representative of Borland Canada. She was givin demos of products such as Paradox and Quatro,but also had on display Turbo C++. I asked her about the new version, and she confirmed to me that on the 12th of February, the new version of 'Borland Turbo C' (or something similar) will be released officially. It will not be called 'Turbo C++' but 'Borland Turbo C' (or B.T. C++). She did mentioned that there will be good prices for the packages following the release, and that I could purchase it in early march. It will contain everything needed for Windows development. > >It should be pretty cheap. I know of one small software developer that >has already placed an order for it directly with Borland, and while I >probably shouldn't say exactly how much they paid, it seems to indicate >that the pricing will be in line with Borland's other language products. > >Just about anything Borland sells can be had for $99 if you are already >a Borland customer. > I printed this article and showed it to her, and she told me to expect something similar for the new version. BTW. Isn't the ms in 'comp.windows.ms' for MicroSoft? Does this mean that a new group called 'comp.windows.borland' will be created? :) Andre -- uucp: micor!baldy internet: baldy@micor.ocunix.on.ca The Bald Eagle strikes again! God created only so many perfect heads, the rest He covered with hair.
yeates@motcid.UUCP (Tony J Yeates) (02/13/91)
Well, its Feb. 12th today, who is going to come up with the first BT C++ release 'scoop'?!