bainbrrw@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Robert Bainbridge) (02/15/91)
Hi all. I've been introducing my system to windows 3.0 with some good luck and some bad. I've been using Word Perfect 5.1 and want to switch to WinWord. I've got everything set up except I can't convert my old Word Perfect 5.1 files to WinWord files. It will convert 5.0, but I've already converted most of those to 5.1. I'd really hate to have to have both on my PC. Is there any way I can get these converted from WP5.1 to WinWord? Has anyone else had this problem? Waiting for your response so I can free up 3MB on my HD. :)
cchapman@msd.gatech.edu (Chuck H. Chapman) (02/15/91)
In <5900@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> bainbrrw@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Robert Bainbridge) writes: >Hi all. I've been introducing my system to windows 3.0 with some good >luck and some bad. >I've been using Word Perfect 5.1 and want to switch to WinWord. >I've got everything set up except I can't convert my old Word Perfect 5.1 >files to WinWord files. It will convert 5.0, but I've already converted most >of those to 5.1. >I'd really hate to have to have both on my PC. >Is there any way I can get these converted from WP5.1 to WinWord? Being a die hard WordPerfect fan, I hate to facilitate people switching to anything else, BUT, you can save your 5.1 files in 5.0 format (assuming you aren't using any unique 5.1 features in these files) by typing: CNTRL-F5 Text In/Out 3 Save As 2 WordPerfect 5.0 You should wait for WordPerfect for Windows, though. Chuck -- Charles H. Chapman (GTRI/MATD) (404) 528-7588 Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ************************************************************** * Home of the 1990 National Champion Ga. Tech Yellow Jackets * ************************************************************** uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!msd!cchapman Internet: cchapman@msd.gatech.edu
burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) (02/16/91)
>You should wait for WordPerfect for Windows, though. > >Chuck My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the Windows operating system. WP for Windows will have the same inherent problem unless they disregard the Windows printing standards. In Word Perfect a document is associated with a printer, orientation, paper size etc. So if you have multiple printers or you work with documents of different orientations and page sizes, you don't have to go to the blasted windows printer and page setups each time you load a document which differs from the last one in one of the above attributes. I think I'll continue using text mode WP for the vast majority of my documents until this problem is removed. (Except of course, when I'm lucky enough to use VI, like right now.) I can understand MS's goal in having printing operations look the same for all applications, but they really screwed those of us who need more flexibility in printing. MS technical support said I could program the necessary printer codes into my document, thus fooling the Windows Page setup, but I really don't want to do this. (Who would when you can do it with such finesse in WP?) Besides, this doesn't solve the problem of having a document associated with a printer and a unique printer port. Please fix this one MS, or WordPerfect please ignore the Windows printing standards in WP4W. Robert
aaron@jessica.stanford.edu (Aaron Wallace) (02/16/91)
In article <cchapman.666566503@romeo> cchapman@msd.gatech.edu (Chuck H. Chapman) writes: > >You should wait for WordPerfect for Windows, though. And if it's anything like WP for the Mac, I'd wait for ver. 2.0! Ah, vapor- ware! Should be out by mid-year, tho... Aaron Wallace
aaron@jessica.stanford.edu (Aaron Wallace) (02/16/91)
In article <1991Feb15.173709.6780@eng.umd.edu> burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) writes: > >Please fix this one MS, or WordPerfect please ignore the Windows >printing standards in WP4W. > No no no no no... One of the main reasons for using Windows is so you don't have to put up with the weird behavior of maverick programs. BTW, there is a way to change orientation on the fly using documented Windows interfaces, so WP would not have to bypass Windows. Aaron Wallace
leoh@hardy.hdw.csd.harris.com (Leo Hinds) (02/16/91)
In article <1991Feb15.173709.6780@eng.umd.edu> burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) writes: >My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper >size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the >Windows operating system. Seems logical to me ... and many others as well (I believe) as I do not recall anybody else complaining about it ... I will concede that possibly some "features" (such as orientation & probably paper size) would not change all that often in any single document ... but most of the time there is a default configuration that (I) use ... so once I have set up the printer ... that's it (why would I do it for every document ... argh !?!) >In Word Perfect a document is associated with a printer, orientation, >paper size etc. So what happens if a document is moved to another CPU (with a different printer type, or the same printer type but on a different port, or same printer type on same port but without the "strange" paper size "specified" by the document) ... no printout without hassles ... > So if you have multiple printers or you work with >documents of different orientations and page sizes, you don't have >to go to the blasted windows printer and page setups each time you >load a document which differs from the last one in one of the above >attributes. I have access to 3 different printers, and with *rare* exceptions, the "default" configuration works just fine ... sure I have to select which of the 3 printers I want, but at least I know all other associated printer defaults have been taken care of. >I think I'll continue using text mode WP for the vast majority of my >documents until this problem is removed. (Except of course, when I'm >lucky enough to use VI, like right now.) VI is not a word-processor ... if you just want an editor, there are many around that will work quite well. >I can understand MS's goal in having printing operations look the >same for all applications, but they really screwed those of us who >need more flexibility in printing. This scheme, though not perfect is the most flexible ... the hard coded info (unless documents never move from the creating cpu & the peripherals are never moved or removed) *is* restrictive. >Please fix this one MS, or WordPerfect please ignore the Windows >printing standards in WP4W. MS/WP PLEASE DO NOT **BREAK** the printing standards, *DO* suggest/develop/provide a layer on top of, or enhancements to, the printer scheme that will allow someone to do as WP people are used to (customizable of course so that others may benefit as well) leoh@hdw.csd.harris.com Leo Hinds (305)973-5229 Gfx ... gfx ... :-) whfg orpnhfr V "ebg"grq zl fvtangher svyr lbh guvax V nz n creireg ?!!!!!!? ... znlor arkg gvzr
strobl@gmdzi.gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) (02/16/91)
burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) writes: >>You should wait for WordPerfect for Windows, though. >> >>Chuck >My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper >size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the >Windows operating system. >WP for Windows will have the same inherent problem unless they disregard >the Windows printing standards. Wrong. This was true in Windows 2, but not in Windows 3. Windows 3 has new printer device driver functions to query the device driver about its capabilities and the mode it is in. The result can be stored in in a document file and restored from that, later, because it is partially device independant. It is possible to restore the whole printer context with a document, as long as the printer isn't changed, and it is possible to restore the so called "device-indepenent settings" which include orientation, paper size, copies and such, even if the printer is changed. >In Word Perfect a document is associated with a printer, orientation, >paper size etc. So if you have multiple printers or you work with >documents of different orientations and page sizes, you don't have >to go to the blasted windows printer and page setups each time you >load a document which differs from the last one in one of the above >attributes. This should be simple to implement using the new Windows 3 printer driver functions. >I think I'll continue using text mode WP for the vast majority of my >documents until this problem is removed. (Except of course, when I'm >lucky enough to use VI, like right now.) >I can understand MS's goal in having printing operations look the >same for all applications, but they really screwed those of us who >need more flexibility in printing. I think that they tried to fix this in Windows 3. But all current big Windows applications where written for Windows 2, so the don't use such new functionality. >[...] >Please fix this one MS, or WordPerfect please ignore the Windows >printing standards in WP4W. If the stuff which is documented in chapter 17 of the Windows 3 Guide to Programming works, this already has been fixed. Wolfgang Strobl #include <std.disclaimer.hpp>
cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (gordon hlavenka) (02/16/91)
In article <5900@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, bainbrrw@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Robert Bainbridge) writes: >I've been using Word Perfect 5.1 and want to switch to WinWord. >I've got everything set up except I can't convert my old Word Perfect 5.1 >files to WinWord files. It will convert 5.0, but I've already converted most >of those to 5.1. Retrieve your file into WP5.1. Then use "Text In/Out" (CTRL/F5) to save the file in WP5.0 format. Then the convert program you already have should be able to handle it. You will have to do this for each file, since WP's CONVERT.EXE doesn't do this conversion. You could probably write a macro to do the recursion... Personally, I run WP5.1 under Windows and like it just fine. -- ----------------------------------------------------- Gordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us Disclaimer: Yeah, I said it. So what?
burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) (02/16/91)
I wrote about Windows inflexibility with printing. >>Please fix this one MS, or WordPerfect please ignore the Windows >>printing standards in WP4W. >> Someone who doesn't seem to make extensive use of WordPerfect's printing capabilities shot back: > >No no no no no... One of the main reasons for using Windows is so you don't >have to put up with the weird behavior of maverick programs. BTW, there is >a way to change orientation on the fly using documented Windows interfaces, so >WP would not have to bypass Windows. > Sure, you could embed some Ctrl characters, etc. in a Windows document which ask the printer to change orientation, perhaps even size and tray. But W4W sure as heck doesn't do this and I'm afraid WP4W will follow their lead. Consider the following scenario. We have a network with (3) printers. HP Laser Jet II running HPPCL on LPT2: DEC ScriptPrinter running PS on LPT3: Epson dot matrix for wide carriage when needed on LPT1: WP documents associate a printer with the document. An 11" wide page makes senseonly for the Epson. The HP has some soft fonts, but if I try to send it something it didn't have, Windows might try to graphically create it or it might barf. In either instance, you're probably affecting other users by holding up their jobs. With Windows, I must select the printer each time a document which uses a different printer is loaded. This sucks and there is no easy workaround. Because the printer driver is part of the Windows Op. Sys., W4W macros cease execution when they get to the Windows D.B. Almost forgot, typing in W4W with full justification is a joke. I'd rather not have WYSIWYG when it looks like this! Don't get me wrong about Windows. Other than Word Processing, its great. I'm using XTALK right now, and I own many Windows products. I just wish that the printer switching, etc. could have been done with more creativity and attention to detail. Robert
altman@sbpmt.cs.sunysb.edu (Jeff Altman) (02/18/91)
In article <1991Feb15.173709.6780@eng.umd.edu> burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) writes: > >My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper >size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the >Windows operating system. Take a look at how printing is done in Excel 3.0. There is a Printer Setup table for each document. In it you are able to set the resolution, fonts, orientation for each document on an individual basis. This is probably how WfW 2.0 will handle it. However, you will be able to insert a new Page Setup at any time. The method they probably use to do this trick is: record the current setup set the printer to teh document settings print reset the original setup -- - Jeff (jaltman@ccmail.sunysb.edu)
tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu (Tom Haapanen) (02/18/91)
John R. Burgoyne <burgoyne@eng.umd.edu> writes: > My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper > size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the > Windows operating system. No, they are *NOT* outside the scope of the program. Any application can call ExtDeviceMode() or use printer escape codes (such as GETSETORIENT) to manipulate the printer. It is only required to conform to the Windows device-independence guidelines and not muck with the device directly. That Word for Windows does not support such features reflects only on that product, not on Windows itself. > Besides, this doesn't solve the problem of having a document > associated with a printer and a unique printer port. Personally, I dislike *this* approach. To me, a document is just that, and it should print on any printer to the best of that device's capabilities... I believe WP's document device-dependency stems from its inability to use device-independent fonts and attributes... [ \tom haapanen --- university of waterloo --- tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu ] [ "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) (02/18/91)
>Take a look at how printing is done in Excel 3.0. There is a Printer >Setup table for each document. In it you are able to set the >resolution, fonts, orientation for each document on an individual >basis. > >This is probably how WfW 2.0 will handle it. However, you will be able >to insert a new Page Setup at any time. > This sounds like what I'm looking for! My version of Excel 3.0 is on order and hasn't arrived yet. How about associating .XLS and .XLC files with different printers also, not just print attributes? Is this possible? Didn't mean to create the previous stir, I just mistakenly thought that W4W would let me do what WP5.1 already does. Robert
burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) (02/18/91)
>No, they are *NOT* outside the scope of the program. Any application can >call ExtDeviceMode() or use printer escape codes (such as GETSETORIENT) to >manipulate the printer. It is only required to conform to the Windows >device-independence guidelines and not muck with the device directly. > >That Word for Windows does not support such features reflects only on that >product, not on Windows itself. OK, OK, I just haven't seen it in any products yet, but I now hear Excel 3.0 does this. > >> Besides, this doesn't solve the problem of having a document >> associated with a printer and a unique printer port. > >Personally, I dislike *this* approach. To me, a document is just that, and >it should print on any printer to the best of that device's capabilities... >I believe WP's document device-dependency stems from its inability to use >device-independent fonts and attributes... WP does print any document to the best of the available printer's abilities. It can graphically generate characters which the printer does not have in its repertoire. As for a document should print on any printer, what about the example of continuous form labels for a dot matrix printer? We have some page setups that take mailing lists and print them on dot matrix printers. Why would I want a word processor to try and approximate this for my laser printer, just because this is the currently active printer? There is also the example of wide carriage pages. Robert
greene@sequoia.rtp.dg.com (jon greene) (02/19/91)
In article <1991Feb15.173709.6780@eng.umd.edu>, burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) writes: |> |> My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper |> size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the |> Windows operating system. |> |> WP for Windows will have the same inherent problem unless they disregard |> the Windows printing standards. |> I saw a demo of WordPerfect for Windows last week at Networld. The user will have the option of using either WordPerfect printer drivers or Windows printer drivers. It was not clear whether using the WP printer drivers also causes the program to associate printer parameters with the document. By the way, WPfW looks like it will be an outstanding product. Granted, a good demonstrator can make anything look simple, but it looked very intuitive and easy to use (more like AmiPro than WfW). Unfortunately, it also had a lot of bugs...they will be hard-pressed to make their June release date. |> Please fix this one MS, or WordPerfect please ignore the Windows |> printing standards in WP4W. |> Jon Greene Data General, Westboro, MA
mikew@proton.LCS.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Williams) (02/19/91)
In article <2368@travis.csd.harris.com>, leoh@hardy.hdw.csd.harris.com (Leo Hinds) writes: |> In article <1991Feb15.173709.6780@eng.umd.edu> burgoyne@eng.umd.edu (John R. Burgoyne) writes: |> >My big gripe with W4W is that the printer tray, orientation, and paper |> >size are outside the scope of the program and are instead part of the |> >Windows operating system. |> |> Seems logical to me ... and many others as well (I believe) as I do not recall |> anybody else complaining about it ... I will concede that possibly some |> "features" (such as orientation & probably paper size) would not change all |> that often in any single document ... but most of the time there is a default |> configuration that (I) use ... so once I have set up the printer ... that's it |> (why would I do it for every document ... argh !?!) As a WordPerfect user, I'd have to agree with John's original comments on Word for Windows printing limitations; WordPerfect handles printing with much less fuss than Windows in general. (And to calm a pet peeve of mine, just because there are no other complaints doesn't mean that it's implemented either logically or appropriately.) At a Windows expo held in Boston last year, I asked the WordPerfect representative how printing would be handled in WordPerfect for Windows, considering Windows' (perceived) lack of precise control (such as forms, orientations, etc.) for printing. The rep said that users will have the option of using either the Windows printer driver or the current .PRS files, which is great for me, because all the enhancements to WP's default Panasonic KX-P1124 printer driver that I made (additions such as double-high priting, for example) won't be lost. It's also a double blessing, because Windows still doesn't support this printer at all, except in emulation mode where I miss the Panasonic-specific features. ________________________________________________________________________ Michael B. Williams \ 1-2-3-4, KICK THE LAWSUITS OUT THE DOOR MIT NE43-532 \ 5-6-7-8, INNOVATE DON'T LITIGATE Laboratory for Computer Science \ 9-A-B-C, INTERFACES SHOULD BE FREE 545 Technology Square \ D-E-F-0, LOOK AND FEEL HAS GOT TO GO! Cambridge, MA 02139 -------------------------------------- (617) 253-5983 Internet: mikew@athena.mit.edu CompuServe: 73667,3264