gary@ur-cvsvax.UUCP (Gary Sclar) (01/21/85)
My car recently refused to start despite a boost from a sympathetic and very lively battery in my friends car. This is not surprising in view of the cool breezes we've been having where I live (rochester, n.y.). My questions are; aside from your battery dying what else tends to go on a car in this sort of climatic extravaganza and, if my battery was being boosted and yet the car refused to start, what are the most likely reasons for this;(I've heard two possibilities; a) that my carb is not adjusted properly for this kind of weather and b) that you have to have the right kind of oil or it sludges up and keeps your motor from running; I might point out that I did put dry gas in my tank, so it's unlikely that my gas line froze. Respond to: seismo......\ decvax......|----rochester!cvsvax!gary ??????....../
mjs@cmu-cs-g.ARPA (Mark Stehlik) (01/22/85)
In addition to the carb not being adjusted (actually it's the choke that would need to be adjusted) and the right oil viscosity (say, 5W-30 or 10W-40), you should look at your ignition source. A bad spark plug wire or fouled plug will also prevent your car from starting, even if the battery is good. This is ESPECIALLY true of 4 cylinder vehicles (because they can't afford to be missing one cylinder). Happy freezing. Mark
ix654@sdcc6.UUCP (ix654) (01/23/85)
> My car recently refused to start despite a boost from a sympathetic and > very lively battery in my friends car. This is not surprising in view of > the cool breezes we've been having where I live (rochester, n.y.). My > questions are; aside from your battery dying what else tends to go on a car > in this sort of climatic extravaganza and, if my battery was being boosted > and yet the car refused to start, what are the most likely reasons for > this;(I've heard two possibilities; a) that my carb is not adjusted > properly for this kind of weather and b) that you have to have the right > kind of oil or it sludges up and keeps your motor from running... I recently noticed the following (which probably has nothing to do with weather): trying to jump-start my car from another battery did not work, my engine acted as if it was frozen. I suspected some of the things mentioned above, but after doing some thinking I disconnected _my_ battery and the car started like a dream. From what a "family electrochemist" told me once, I remembered that the most common cause of battery failure is even a minute amount of dirt in the electrolyte which effectively causes a short between electrodes (this should not happen in sealed, maintenance-free batteries - but it does!) The current from booster cables was going through the smallest resistance, i.e. through my battery and not the starter. I think it should be kept in mind when jump-starting a car, but I haven't seen this mentioned in any troubleshooting manual. Erek Behr, UCSD (sdcc6!ix654)
rfish@ihlpm.UUCP (Bob Fishell) (01/23/85)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** When it was -20 F here last Saturday, I went out and stuck the key in my '82 Honda Accord, goosed it a couple of times, and cranked the engine. It protested some, but it started. Not bad for a three-year-old battery. ...leading me to conclude that the best solution to a car that won't start in winter is to get rid of the piece of junk and buy something that does start. It doesn't have to be new or foreign, either. I once had a '62 BelAir with 130K on it that'd start at -17, which was about as cold as it ever got in Columbus, Ohio. However, GM doesn't make the 283 any more (pity), so a Honda is probably a good bet. -- Bob Fishell ihnp4!ihlpm!rfish
dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) (01/23/85)
In article <2049@pegasus.UUCP> mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) writes: >> My car recently refused to start despite a boost from a sympathetic and >> very lively battery in my friends car. ... if my battery was being boosted >> and yet the car refused to start, what are the most likely reasons for >> this ... ? > >Anyway, my father (being an electrical engineer) decided that the >Pontiac needed a bit more charging. So I sat in the big Dodge, >keeping it idling fast for about 15 minutes with jumpers hooked up >to my battery. After this treatment, I again tried my car and it >started. > >Moral of the story: Sometimes it takes a long time to jump start. There are two possible ways to "jump start" a car: either charge up the car's own battery, or just use the other car's battery for starting current. Starting directly from the other car's battery can be done, even if the car's own battery is quite dead, but it requires GOOD jumper cables - heavy wire, and good connections at the clips, to carry the full starting current without too much voltage drop. With cheap jumper cables, your only alternative is to wait until the car's own battery has been recharged enough to provide most of the current.
mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) (01/24/85)
> My car recently refused to start despite a boost from a sympathetic and > very lively battery in my friends car. ... if my battery was being boosted > and yet the car refused to start, what are the most likely reasons for > this ... ? It is not clear from this article how the dead car was being boosted. I once had a similar problem with my 1973 Grandville. I drove the car to my parents house and worked on it all day (doors open, 5 interior lights plus radio blazing away for hours). Come time to go home, I tried cranking it and *nothing*. Attempts to jump start with my parent's Plymouth Champ failed, as did attempts with their big Dodge. Anyway, my father (being an electrical engineer) decided that the Pontiac needed a bit more charging. So I sat in the big Dodge, keeping it idling fast for about 15 minutes with jumpers hooked up to my battery. After this treatment, I again tried my car and it started. Moral of the story: Sometimes it takes a long time to jump start. -- Mike^Z [allegra!, ihnp4!] pegasus!mzal Zaleski@Rutgers PS: Did you check the water in the battery?
gvcormack@watdaisy.UUCP (Gordon V. Cormack) (01/25/85)
> batteries - but it does!) The current from booster cables was going > through the smallest resistance, i.e. through my battery and not the > starter. I think it should be kept in mind when jump-starting a car, > but I haven't seen this mentioned in any troubleshooting manual. > > Erek Behr, UCSD > (sdcc6!ix654) This is impossible. The resistance of the starter is less than 0.1 ohms. If there were really an internal short of less than 0.1 ohms inside the battery, more than 100 amps (i.e. 1200 watts) would be produced. Connecting the booster cables to such a battery would cause sparking resembling an arc welder. What is more likely is that originally the booster cables were not connected well, and after removing the original battery a better connection was made (what did you have in its place?). It has already been mentioned on this net, but I will re-iterate the fact that you need REALLY good cables and connectors to transfer enough current to start a cold car. With most cables, the best you can do is help the existing battery a bit. Waiting with the cables connected before trying charges the existing battery slightly and also warms it from the charging current. Gordon V. Cormack gvcormack@watdaisy.uucp gvcormack%watdaisy@waterloo.csnet
bmt@we53.UUCP ( B. M. Thomas ) (01/26/85)
>Anyway, my father (being an electrical engineer) decided that the >Pontiac needed a bit more charging. So I sat in the big Dodge, >keeping it idling fast for about 15 minutes with jumpers hooked up >to my battery. After this treatment, I again tried my car and it >started. This reflects a common misunderstanding. Starting a car takes many MANY amps, sometimes in the hundreds in these cold times. Most of what pass for jumper cables look fine but do not do the job. The connectors and the size and type of the wires used are critical in this case. What happened to you was that your jumper cables were unable to carry the required current. This is proven by the fact that merely charging with the other car was able to give it enough charge to start your car. When looking for a set of jumper cables, do not buy the cheap ones. NEVER buy aluminum ones. They simply will not do the job. They can do what yours did IF your battery will accept a charge, but if it won't, you're out of luck. The ones you want usually cost a lot(25 to 35 bucks), but anything else is a waste of your time and money. They should have 4 guage or bigger COPPER wires, and painted heavy guage steel clamps with copper inserts. I got lucky and got a set from a Junior Achievement sale for 14 bucks. They had 3 guage 100-plus-stranded wire plus 400-amp clamps. I bought three, and I have had many occasions to be very thankful for them, as has many a stranded motorist whom I have been able to help. from over the rainbow of we53!bmt(Brian M. Thomas @ AT&T Technologies, St. Louis, MO)
preston@fortune.UUCP (Carol Preston) (01/27/85)
In article <105@ihlpm.UUCP> rfish@ihlpm.UUCP (Bob Fishell) writes: > >...leading me to conclude that the best solution to a car >that won't start in winter is to get rid of the piece >of junk and buy something that does start. It doesn't >have to be new or foreign, either. I once had a '62 >BelAir with 130K on it that'd start at -17, which was >about as cold as it ever got in Columbus, Ohio. However, >GM doesn't make the 283 any more (pity), so a Honda is >probably a good bet. Last winter I went on a trip and left my '82 Mazda 626 parked in my apartment parking lot a week in Michigan. The temperature never got above 10 degrees, and the morning I tried to start my car it was -30. After I found my car under all the snow, I found the lock and sprayed that stuff in it to unlock the door. I turned on the headlights to get some 'juice' flowing, but it still didn't start. Maybe the sun warmed it up enough, because eventually it started. About an hour later, while I was driving down the road, all of my door locks popped up and scared the hell out of me. In my car, when you unlock the driver's door all of the other doors unlock. So, if you have anything on your car that is suppose to happen automatically when you turn on you car, beware. Especially anything motor-driven. BTW, watch out when you go over bumps. I was once in a BelAir and the car started when the temperature (not windchill) was at -50. We took off down the road, went over some train tracks, hit bottom and shattered something. Don't ask me what, not too many people want to look at the bottom of a car at 50 below. -- Carol Preston {hpda, ihnp4, allegra, ucbvax|dual}!fortune!preston (415) 594-2891 Fortune Systems, 101 Twin Dolphin Pkwy, Redwood Shores, CA 94065
ix654@sdcc6.UUCP (ix654) (02/02/85)
> > batteries - but it does!) The current from booster cables was going > > through the smallest resistance, i.e. through my battery and not the > > starter. I think it should be kept in mind when jump-starting a car, > > but I haven't seen this mentioned in any troubleshooting manual. > > > > Erek Behr, UCSD > > (sdcc6!ix654) > > This is impossible. The resistance of the starter is less than 0.1 > ohms. If there were really an internal short of less than 0.1 ohms > inside the battery, more than 100 amps (i.e. 1200 watts) would be > produced. Connecting the booster cables to such a battery would > cause sparking resembling an arc welder. What is more likely is > that originally the booster cables were not connected well, and > after removing the original battery a better connection was made > (what did you have in its place?). (.....) > Gordon V. Cormack That's exactly what surprised me - there was _nothing_ in its place! I just broke the battery circuit (b.t.w., there were no arc welder sparks to be seen.) E. B.