rhone@newsserver.sfu.ca (Brock Rhone) (04/14/91)
Does anyone out there have experience with Windows 3.0 on diskless workstations? We will be installing a small ARCnet LAN: 5 workstations and a dedicated server running Novell ELS II. Three of the workstations would be diskless 25MHz 386DXs with 4MB RAM. I have heard that Windows' performance on a diskless station is seriously degraded. How serious would the performance hit be on a small (and fairly lightly loaded) network like this? The alternative to the diskless stations is to buy 20MHz 386SXs with 40MB drives -- a slower processor but a local hard disk included for roughly the same price. Is this the better option? Thanks for any help. Brock --------------------------------------------------------------------- Brock Rhone SF Univentures Corp. Simon Fraser University Burnaby, B.C. CANADA
MUHRTH@tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr) (04/16/91)
In article <1991Apr13.223145.21978@newsserver.sfu.ca>, rhone@newsserver.sfu.ca (Brock Rhone) says: > >Does anyone out there have experience with Windows 3.0 on >diskless workstations? > >We will be installing a small ARCnet LAN: 5 workstations and a >dedicated server running Novell ELS II. Three of the workstations >would be diskless 25MHz 386DXs with 4MB RAM. > >I have heard that Windows' performance on a diskless station is >seriously degraded. How serious would the performance hit be on >a small (and fairly lightly loaded) network like this? In enhanced mode all swapping will use the net. Imagine a 8 Mbyte swapfile rushing through the ethernet cables form every workstation running windows! >The alternative to the diskless stations is to buy 20MHz 386SXs >with 40MB drives -- a slower processor but a local hard disk >included for roughly the same price. This is extremely better, because a permanent swapfile can be generated for every workstation, leaving the net bandwidth for the essential tasks. I have posted an article recently describing the very tricky procedure to install windows in a net efficiently (space, speed). >Is this the better option? Yes >Thanks for any help. > >Brock You're welcome - Thomas ------- Thomas Muhr, Technical University of Berlin, BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11 Project ATLAS - Computer Based Tools for Qualitative Research "Computers, like every technology, are a vehicle for the transformation of tradition." (WINOGRAD/FLORES)
viki@crash.cts.com (Victoria Harkey) (04/17/91)
Regarding the swapfile in windows on a diskless workstation. Set up a RAM drive for each workstation. Use the own cpu's RAM for swapping... very fast. v Victoria Harkey Certified NetWare Engineer -- Victoria Harkey Certified NetWare Engineer
cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) (04/17/91)
From article <8621@crash.cts.com>, by viki@crash.cts.com (Victoria Harkey): > > Regarding the swapfile in windows on a diskless workstation. Set up a RAM > drive for each workstation. Use the own cpu's RAM for swapping... very > fast. > > v > > Victoria Harkey > Certified NetWare Engineer > -- I've seen people posting previously that they used a ram drive for the swap file. Wouldn't it be more efficient to tell windows NOT to use a swap file in the case of a diskless station OR a crammed hard drive, and allow windows to access 100% of the RAM as RAM? I thought the whole purpose of a swap file was to extend your RAM beyond what you actually have to store idle applications, etc. If you use your RAM for a RAM drive, you aren't gaining anything and you are loosing flexiblilty. That's what I think. I could be wrong. Please let me know if I'm missing something. - Charles A.
userWINO@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (Myron Wintonyk) (04/18/91)
In article <1991Apr13.223145.21978@newsserver.sfu.ca>, rhone@newsserver.sfu.ca (Brock Rhone) writes: > >Does anyone out there have experience with Windows 3.0 on >diskless workstations? > ... I Do ... > >How serious would the performance hit be on >a small (and fairly lightly loaded) network like this? > We use an IBM PC-Net LAN, running Novell Netware, with 386 Clones without Hard Disks. Performance is a concern, but it isn't a real problem. Generally, Loading an application is slow (an extra 30-60 Seconds). However, once the application is loaded, it is quite quick. Also, once in a while (usually after "flipping") from the second loaded application for the first time, it seemingly hangs. However, it is actually doing something, and comes back after about 45 Seconds. One other odd problem that I have noted, If a user does not have about 3Mb of disk space available, Windows often reports "out of memory" when a large number of applications are opened (say 3+). Myron Wintonyk Faculty of Medicine, University of Albert
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/18/91)
In article <1991Apr17.130557.14349@hubcap.clemson.edu> cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) writes: >From article <8621@crash.cts.com>, by viki@crash.cts.com (Victoria Harkey): >> >> Regarding the swapfile in windows on a diskless workstation. Set up a RAM >> drive for each workstation. Use the own cpu's RAM for swapping... very >> fast. >> >I've seen people posting previously that they used a ram drive for the >swap file. Wouldn't it be more efficient to tell windows NOT to use a swap >file in the case of a diskless station OR a crammed hard drive, and allow >windows to access 100% of the RAM as RAM? I thought the whole purpose of >a swap file was to extend your RAM beyond what you actually have to store >idle applications, etc. If you use your RAM for a RAM drive, you aren't >gaining anything and you are loosing flexiblilty. That's what I think. >I could be wrong. Please let me know if I'm missing something. >- Charles A. Basically your instinct is right. Since Windows and Windows Apps employs its own DOS extender (in two of its three modes) and can let its Apps have access to a larger protected mode address space, the more memory for Windows, the merrier... Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. 3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. ;-) (Swapping is really only a major issue with Windows in 386 Enh mode. It's then that Windows uses swap file extensively for some operations, as well as for virtual memory support) Jason Lamb
viki@crash.cts.com (Victoria Harkey) (04/18/91)
In-Reply-To: <9104172248.AA05082@javelin.sim.es.com>; from "Raptor" at Apr 17, 91 4:48 pm; and from Sean Malloy (malloy@nprdc.navy.mil) From: viki@crash.cts.com (Victoria Harkey) Status: RO The following designates originator: > > First posting by viki > Response by Lynn Wallace m: Response by Sean Malloy This is a lengthy rebuttal, but if you are having any difficulty with Windows in a network environment, please trudge through the information. It is documented and thorough. > Viki wrote this paragraph > >Regarding the swapfile in windows on a diskless workstation. Set up a RAM > >drive for each workstation. Use the own cpu's RAM for swapping... very > >fast. > > Yes, I'm sure, but doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose of a swapfile? m:It _does_ solve the problem of Windows trying to swap across the m:network, but you're still going to take a performance hit. It will stop the flood on the backbone of all the temp files being stored across the wire. It will be in a local RAM drive, and have faster access because it doesn't have to go out across the wire to find the info. > > We're out of memory, so we need to swap something. Where to put it? > Let's see, we've got this chunk of memory over here... > m:The swapfile Windows uses is where Windows puts programs that can't be m:kept in memory due to the memory requirements of other programs; m:taking away part of the system's memory to give Windows somewhere to m:put programs that it can't fit in memory is counterproductive, because m:you lose the space that you use to create the ramdrive, and the m:overhead involved in manipulating the ramdrive means that you don't m:get it all back. m:For example, if you had 8Mb of memory, and you split it into 4Mb of m:memory for Windows and a swapfile filling a 4Mb ramdisk, you'd have to m:swap programs out more, because there's less memory to keep them in, m:and the available space on the ramdisk will be less than 4Mb. > The more memory you have in your workstations, the better the performance you will have. 6-8MB is a fairly good start. There are also a few items that should be in the net.cfg file (used by the workstation when it connects to the file server). They are: SET DOTS = ON FILE HANDLES = 60 In the config.sys file the files should = 60 as well. Under the NetWare section in the system.ini you should have: NWShareHandles=true The following is a quotation (p32 from the NetWare Application Notes, January 1991 issue.) " SET TEMP =C:\TEMP "This would use the directory TEMP on this workstation's drive C. Using network drives to perform this swapping activity carries certain penalties. Swap files that are swapped to the network disks, not only creates more work load for the server, it creates more traffic over the network. Additionally, when you are placing swap files on an Advanced NetWare 2.15 server, there will be a marked increase in Windows load time. This is especially true when running Windows in 386 Enhanced mode. "The problem is that when a swap file is created, Windows will allocate a chunk of disk space for the swap file, prior to using it. When this is done on a NetWare server, NetWare will allocate the requested disk space but prior to allowing the user access to the file, NetWare will also zero fill the allocated file space. This is a NetWare operating system security measure and can not be turned off. "The solution for problems resulting from using the network for swapfile location is to simply move to local devices. While a local hard drive is a good place for swap files, a local floppy disk drive should not be considered. "RAM disks are speedy places for swapfiles, however, it is recommended that you have a minimum size RAM disk of 2MB, for any configuration. The memory set aside for the RAM disk must always be considered against having the available memory to Windows applications. You also need to load a RAM disk device driver that will not conflict with any loaded memory managers. If you have further questions regarding RAM disks and Windows you can consult the *MICROSOFT WINDOWS USERS GUIDE* pages 530-535. "In 386 Enhanced Mode you can specify a location for permanent swapfile as opposed to temporary, on a local DOS device. This cannot be setup on a network drive at all. This is also outlined in the *MICROSOFT WINDOWS USERS GUIDE* on pages 520-530." These NetWare Application Notes are available to me because I am a Certified NetWare Engineer. I also receive the "white papers" from Microsoft because I am a Lan Specialist. > Or maybe I'm missing something about Windows on networks. Actually, I think you have just found some of the more difficult things to deal with. It is not an easy setup for performance; but if you have any further questions, please drop me a line. viki@crash.cts.com > -- > Lynn Wallace | I do not represent E&S. > Evans and Sutherland Computer Corp.| Internet: lwallace@javelin.sim.es.com > Salt Lake City, UT 84108 | Compu$erve: 70242,101 > Revenge is a dish best not served at all. > -- random sig #97: Sean Malloy | Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | The ultimate smart weapon would San Diego, CA 92152-6800 | be too smart to blow itself up. malloy@nprdc.navy.mil | Victoria Harkey Certified NetWare Engineer Lan Specialist "Techie" -- Victoria Harkey Certified NetWare Engineer
cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) (04/18/91)
From article <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM>, by jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb): > In article <1991Apr17.130557.14349@hubcap.clemson.edu> cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) writes: >>From article <8621@crash.cts.com>, by viki@crash.cts.com (Victoria Harkey): >>> >>> Regarding the swapfile in windows on a diskless workstation. Set up a RAM >>> drive for each workstation. Use the own cpu's RAM for swapping... very >>> fast. >>> >>I've seen people posting previously that they used a ram drive for the >>swap file. Wouldn't it be more efficient to tell windows NOT to use a swap >>file in the case of a diskless station OR a crammed hard drive, and allow >>windows to access 100% of the RAM as RAM? I thought the whole purpose of >>a swap file was to extend your RAM beyond what you actually have to store >>idle applications, etc. If you use your RAM for a RAM drive, you aren't >>gaining anything and you are loosing flexiblilty. That's what I think. >>I could be wrong. Please let me know if I'm missing something. >>- Charles A. > > Basically your instinct is right. Since Windows and Windows Apps employs its > own DOS extender (in two of its three modes) and can let its Apps have access > to a larger protected mode address space, the more memory for Windows, the > merrier... > > Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it > comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is > the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. > 3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. > ;-) > > (Swapping is really only a major issue with Windows in 386 Enh mode. It's > then that Windows uses swap file extensively for some operations, as well > as for virtual memory support) > > Jason Lamb RTFM page 507. "To prevent Windows from swapping, edit your SYSTEM.INI file and set Paging=No in the [386enh] section of the file." OK, this is only for 386enh mode. If you have to run in REAL or STANDARD mode, it looks like a swap file is required, in which case a RAM disk may be the way to go for certain situations like a diskless workstaton. As a note, page 529 of TFM says it should have at least 512K of free space. Have a nice day! - Charles A.
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/19/91)
In article <1991Apr18.162708.20756@hubcap.clemson.edu> cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) writes: > >RTFM page 507. "To prevent Windows from swapping, edit your SYSTEM.INI >file and set Paging=No in the [386enh] section of the file." > >OK, this is only for 386enh mode. If you have to run in REAL or STANDARD >mode, it looks like a swap file is required, in which case a RAM disk may >be the way to go for certain situations like a diskless workstaton. As a >note, page 529 of TFM says it should have at least 512K of free space. >Have a nice day! >- Charles A. I do stand corrected. Swapping can be turned off for 386 Enhanced mode... If there's anyone out there who's seriously considering doing it,... don't. (Or at the minimum, TEST it first. Then you will know the true meaning of suffering for your art....) Ditto for anyone considering using 512K for a swapping ramdisk (in 386 Enh mode). (I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes the manual will state actual truths and garnish them with an inordinate amount of optimism...) -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
jlr1801@aim1.tamu.edu (Jeff Rife) (04/19/91)
In article <1991Apr18.162708.20756@hubcap.clemson.edu> cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) writes: > >RTFM page 507. "To prevent Windows from swapping, edit your SYSTEM.INI >file and set Paging=No in the [386enh] section of the file." > >OK, this is only for 386enh mode. If you have to run in REAL or STANDARD >mode, it looks like a swap file is required, in which case a RAM disk may >be the way to go for certain situations like a diskless workstaton. As a >note, page 529 of TFM says it should have at least 512K of free space. >Have a nice day! >- Charles A. Nope, Windows does not use a Virtual Memory swap file in any mode *except* 386Enh. In standard and real modes, Windows will swap when you switch to a DOS application, saving the contents of the <640K area (since the magic memory-moving virtual pages are not available) and of any XMS that the PIF for the application requests. (Note, to increase efficency, edit _DEFAULT.PIF to use no XMS. (or EMS in 386Enh)) But Windows applications are limited to your real, honest to God RAM. In addition, some applications like Word for Windows and Corel Draw use the TEMP directory while editing files. This *is* a place where a RAM-disk will help. Corel Draw will *not* use my 11MB of RAM on my 80386SX, but I set up a 3 MB RAMDRIVE as the TEMP and it runs about 3 times a fast on moderately-sized files. Other programs could benefit from this, as well. Just check to see if they create temporary files on machines with >lots of RAM available. -- Jeff Rife P.O. Box 3836 | "Because he was human; because he had goodness; College Station, TX 77844 | because he was moral they called him insane. (409) 823-2710 | Delusions of grandeur; visons of splendor; jlr1801@aim1.tamu.edu | A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
plim@hpsgwp.sgp.hp.com (Peter Lim) (04/19/91)
/ jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) / 9:59 am Apr 18, 1991 / writes: > Basically your instinct is right. Since Windows and Windows Apps employs its > own DOS extender (in two of its three modes) and can let its Apps have access > to a larger protected mode address space, the more memory for Windows, the > merrier... > > Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it > comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is > the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. > 3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. > ;-) > Really ??!! I don't know for sure because I don't run networked PC's. You mean you can't edit your own local copy of SYSTEM.INI and add the line "Paging=No" to disable swapping ? I was always under the impression that when sharing Windows code, all you need to do is to maintain a local copy of the following: [1] WIN.COM [2] *.INI <- your all kind of setup. [3] *.GRP <- your Program Manager Groups. [4] *.BMP <- for all your wall paper. Then start Windows from this local directory. With the networked Windows directory in your path of course. ... and everything should work nicely. I do this to start Windows in different configuration by starting in different directories. Cheers. Regards, ___o``\________________________________________________ ___ __ _ _ Peter Lim. V````\ @ @ . .. ... .- -> 76 MIPS at under US$20K !! --- -- - - /.------------------------------------------------ === == = = >--_// . .. ... .- -> 57 MIPS at under US$12K !! `' . If you guessed SUN, IBM or DEC, your are wrong ! E-mail: plim@hpsgwg.HP.COM Snail-mail: Hewlett Packard Singapore, Tel: (065)-279-2289 (ICDS, ICS) Telnet: 520-2289 1150 Depot Road, Singapore 0410. #include <standard_disclaimer.hpp>
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. a BS! It depends on what you are terming a swap file. The swap file which is only used in 386EM can be disable by the use of a simple paging=no in the SYSTEM.INI. If you are speaking of the TEMP files that windows often creates when printing or swapping out of a dos application in real or standard mode, then you are correct in saying that you cannot tell windows to stop creating these files. They are necessary. Chris -- Chris Kinsman KINSMAN@WSUVM1 Washington State University 22487863@WSUVM1 Computing Service Center ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu Computing Resources Laboratory 76701.154@compuserve.com
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.012141.19679@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >I do stand corrected. Swapping can be turned off for 386 Enhanced mode... > >If there's anyone out there who's seriously considering doing it,... don't. > >(Or at the minimum, TEST it first. Then you will know the true meaning of >suffering for your art....) > >Ditto for anyone considering using 512K for a swapping ramdisk (in 386 Enh >mode). > >(I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes the manual will state actual truths >and garnish them with an inordinate amount of optimism...) > I don't know where you come up with your don't. It is not an absolutism. It depends on the machine. On a machine with 16 meg of RAM you are better turning off the swapfile. Why? Because you couldn't utilize much more than 16 meg in windows without running out of system resources and by turning it off you actually increase the available resources and increase performance. On a 4 meg machine however you would be foolish to turn it off because you can easily use more than the 4 meg of REAL ram you have. 512K is not a bad size (actually a little small if you are printing 300 dpi graphics to a laser) for a ramdisk to set your temp variable to. I would not swap in 386EM mode to it however. I think you would be better off with the real memory in 386EM. In real and standard mode a 512K-1024K ramdisk with the TEMP variable set to it is better. Chris -- Chris Kinsman KINSMAN@WSUVM1 Washington State University 22487863@WSUVM1 Computing Service Center ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu Computing Resources Laboratory 76701.154@compuserve.com
ergo@netcom.COM (Isaac Rabinovitch) (04/20/91)
In <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >In article <1991Apr17.130557.14349@hubcap.clemson.edu> cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) writes: >>> >>I've seen people posting previously that they used a ram drive for the >>swap file. Wouldn't it be more efficient to tell windows NOT to use a swap >>file in the case of a diskless station OR a crammed hard drive, and allow >>windows to access 100% of the RAM as RAM? >Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. That's easily dealth with: create a very small permanent swap file. In effect, you're restricting your Windows workspace to real RAM. I think the moral of this story is that diskless workstations are a case of applying today's technology to yesterday's problems. Why expend expensive network resources to avoid buying cheap winchester disks? -- ergo@netcom.com Isaac Rabinovitch netcom!ergo@apple.com Silicon Valley, CA {apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo "You might well think that... I couldn't possibly comment."
chris@visionware.co.uk (Chris Davies) (04/21/91)
In article <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it Bzzzt. Bonus for the other side! Check out the SYSINI3.TXT file: > Paging=<Boolean> > Default: yes > Purpose: Enables or disables demand paging (virtual > memory). You would disable this setting only if > you need the disk space normally used for a > temporary swap file. > To change: Use Notepad to edit the SYSTEM.INI file. You can also select where a (temporary) swapfile is to be placed, and how big it's to be. Chris -- VISIONWARE LTD, 57 Cardigan Lane, LEEDS LS4 2LE, England Tel +44 532 788858. Fax +44 532 304676. Email chris@visionware.co.uk -------------- "VisionWare: The home of DOS/UNIX/X integration" -------------
rfutscher@pbs.org (04/22/91)
> >Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. > "If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same name on the root directory of the server." page 380 of Windows 3 Power Tools. A must read book for all windows power users. Robert Futscher rfutscher@pbs.org
jlr1801@aim1.tamu.edu (Jeff Rife) (04/22/91)
In article <600002@hpsgwp.sgp.hp.com> plim@hpsgwp.sgp.hp.com (Peter Lim) writes: > >I was always under the impression that when sharing Windows code, all >you need to do is to maintain a local copy of the following: > > [1] WIN.COM > [2] *.INI <- your all kind of setup. > [3] *.GRP <- your Program Manager Groups. > [4] *.BMP <- for all your wall paper. > Actually, it will grap the *.BMP files from the server Windows directory, so then you can let everyone have access to the same files with only one copy. Handy for those 256-color files. -- Jeff Rife P.O. Box 3836 | "Because he was human; because he had goodness; College Station, TX 77844 | because he was moral they called him insane. (409) 823-2710 | Delusions of grandeur; visons of splendor; jlr1801@aim1.tamu.edu | A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
dakwala@acsu.buffalo.edu (Nikhil Dakwala) (04/22/91)
In article <1991Apr21.164528.12434@pbs.org> rfutscher@pbs.org writes: > > >> >>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >>comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >>the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. ........ > > >"If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file >to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license >Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet >Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive >is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that >if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode >with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their >systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same >name on the root directory of the server." > >Robert Futscher rfutscher@pbs.org Besides that, using a network drive to store the temporary swap files, can easily create storage problems during run-time, because these files occupy lots of space.. These files are deleted too, but then they won't be deleted long enough for the file server to purge them automatically to create more space, this might eventually crash the network. Nikhil Dakwala
ergo@netcom.COM (Isaac Rabinovitch) (04/23/91)
In <1991Apr20.011102.26644@serval.net.wsu.edu> ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >512K is not a bad size (actually a little small if you are printing 300 dpi >graphics to a laser) for a ramdisk to set your temp variable to. I would >not swap in 386EM mode to it however. I think you would be better off with >the real memory in 386EM. In real and standard mode a 512K-1024K ramdisk >with the TEMP variable set to it is better. Could you elaborate? I've set aside 1 meg extended for TEMP, but I'm beginning to wonder what good it does. I doubt if many program I have use it at all. (Don't do a lot of graphics printing, and my printer is just an inkjet anyway.) -- ergo@netcom.com Isaac Rabinovitch netcom!ergo@apple.com Silicon Valley, CA {apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo "You might well think that... I couldn't possibly comment."
altman@sbpmt.cs.sunysb.edu (Jeff Altman) (04/23/91)
In article <1991Apr21.164528.12434@pbs.org> rfutscher@pbs.org writes: > >"If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file >to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license >Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet >Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive >is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that >if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode >with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their >systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same >name on the root directory of the server." This is rather outdated. The 3.01 shells which are required to run Windows 3.0 do support Fake Roots. MAP ROOT w:=sys:home/my_directory for example. >Robert Futscher rfutscher@pbs.org -- - Jeff | Altmania Productions |================================| ~ ~ | 15 Yarmouth Lane | jaltman @ ccmail.sunysb.edu | * | * | Nesconset, New York | altman @ sbcs.sunysb.edu | \_____/ | 11767-1609 | 71530.3252 @ CompuServe.COM |
jkt@seneca.Sed.Novell.COM. (Jack Thomasson) (04/24/91)
>>>>> On 21 Apr 91 20:45:28 GMT, rfutscher@pbs.org said:
rfutscher> "If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the
rfutscher> temporary swap file to a net drive. Unlike other network
rfutscher> vendors, Novell does not license Microsoft"s MSNet
rfutscher> Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet Redictor
rfutscher> compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive is
rfutscher> also the root directory of the server. What this means is
rfutscher> that if more than one user tries to run windows in 386
rfutscher> enhanced mode with their temporary swap file set to the
rfutscher> same Novell drive, their systems will hang because the swap
rfutscher> files will try to be the same name on the root directory of
rfutscher> the server."
ah, but the new NetWare Shells (3.01) were designed to avoid this
particular problem. use the new "map root" capability and always set
the swap to the drive rooted at the user's home directory if you must
use a network drive for swapping. (see earlier postings/flames!)
rfutscher> page 380 of Windows 3 Power Tools. A must read book for all
rfutscher> windows power users.
of course, even a power book can be wrong or out-of-date. :{)}
rfutscher> Robert Futscher rfutscher@pbs.org
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Thomasson :{)} jkt@Sed.Novell.COM
Novell, Inc. / MS C-25-1 / 122 East 1700 South / Provo, UT 84606
Phone: (801)429-7604 FAX: (801)429-5511
"WARNING: the comments do not necessarily reflect the implementation"jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr20.010210.26574@serval.net.wsu.edu> ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >In article <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >>comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >>the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >>3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. >a > >BS! It depends on what you are terming a swap file. The swap file which >is only used in 386EM can be disable by the use of a simple paging=no in >the SYSTEM.INI. If you are speaking of the TEMP files that windows often >creates when printing or swapping out of a dos application in real or >standard mode, then you are correct in saying that you cannot tell windows >to stop creating these files. They are necessary. > >Chris > Yeah, yeah.. I corrected this the first time after someone pointed it out. You can disable paging in Windows 386 Enh mode. Cannot in Standard and Real. A minor error considering my point which was in most environments including diskless workstations (which started the thread) you would not want to disable paging for Windows in 386 Enhanced mode. (More on this in my second reply). Jason -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr20.011102.26644@serval.net.wsu.edu> ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >In article <1991Apr19.012141.19679@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >>I do stand corrected. Swapping can be turned off for 386 Enhanced mode... >> >>If there's anyone out there who's seriously considering doing it,... don't. >> >>(Or at the minimum, TEST it first. Then you will know the true meaning of >>suffering for your art....) >> >>Ditto for anyone considering using 512K for a swapping ramdisk (in 386 Enh >>mode). >> >>(I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes the manual will state actual truths >>and garnish them with an inordinate amount of optimism...) >> >I don't know where you come up with your don't. It is not an absolutism. >It depends on the machine. On a machine with 16 meg of RAM you are better >turning off the swapfile. Why? Because you couldn't utilize much more than >16 meg in windows without running out of system resources and by turning it >off you actually increase the available resources and increase performance. >On a 4 meg machine however you would be foolish to turn it off because you >can easily use more than the 4 meg of REAL ram you have. > >512K is not a bad size (actually a little small if you are printing 300 dpi >graphics to a laser) for a ramdisk to set your temp variable to. I would >not swap in 386EM mode to it however. I think you would be better off with >the real memory in 386EM. In real and standard mode a 512K-1024K ramdisk >with the TEMP variable set to it is better. > >Chris > Again, yeah yeah.. I came up with my don't and my generalization, based upon the beginning of this thread, which regarded diskless workstations running Windows on NetWare networks. It is that configuration that I recommended not turning off paging for. And that is based on the fact that I have never seen a diskless WS with enough memory to warrant turning off paging for. There are certain machines that will not be affected by turning paging off on, such as 16mb 386es, but I'm not convinced that you would be increasing performance or resources by turning it off, based upon my experimentation. I admit that I tested most of my Win/NW configs on real world boxes, but I did do some testing on a Compaq 486/33 with 20mb of RAM. I'm not even sure the swap file was even used on that machine. I agree with your thesis that you can actually turn off paging in 386 Enh mode on some machines (lots of memory) without it hurting performance, but I can't see it helping performance on those boxes any. In most users' WSes they should 1) keep paging on, and 2) try to keep it off NW 286 server drives if possible. Lastly, I again encourage users to try their configurations with 512K RAM disks for swapfiles in any mode, before they assume it'll be ok. I also offer that they should test larger RAM disks for swap space after they get a significant amount of Windows Apps workload bandwidth worked up and see if they see performance improvements. BTW, my workstation is a 20mhz 386 with 8mb of RAM and I'M NOT turning off paging. (After trying it out.. of course..) Jason -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr20.171535.14486@visionware.co.uk> chris@visionware.co.uk (Chris Davies) writes: >In article <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it > >Bzzzt. Bonus for the other side! Check out the SYSINI3.TXT file: >> Paging=<Boolean> >> Default: yes >> Purpose: Enables or disables demand paging (virtual >> memory). You would disable this setting only if >> you need the disk space normally used for a >> temporary swap file. >> To change: Use Notepad to edit the SYSTEM.INI file. > >You can also select where a (temporary) swapfile is to be placed, and how >big it's to be. > >Chris >-- Yep.. I pointed this out in response already. You can turn off swapping.. in 386 Enhanced mode only. Sorry for any confusion. You can't turn off swapping in Standard and Real modes however. Jason -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr21.164528.12434@pbs.org> rfutscher@pbs.org writes: > > >> >>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >>comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >>the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >>3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. >> > > >"If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file >to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license >Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet >Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive >is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that >if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode >with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their >systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same >name on the root directory of the server." > >page 380 of Windows 3 Power Tools. A must read book for all >windows power users. > >Robert Futscher rfutscher@pbs.org As a few netters have pointed out this is incorrect for users of the NetWare shells which supply fake root capabilities. (3.0 and later) Jason -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/24/91)
In article <72261@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> dakwala@acsu.buffalo.edu (Nikhil Dakwala) writes: >In article <1991Apr21.164528.12434@pbs.org> rfutscher@pbs.org writes: >> >>>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >>>comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >>>the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. > >>"If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file >>to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license >>Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet >>Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive >>is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that >>if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode >>with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their >>systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same >>name on the root directory of the server." > >> >>Robert Futscher rfutscher@pbs.org > > >Besides that, using a network drive to store the temporary swap files, >can easily create storage problems during run-time, because these >files occupy lots of space.. These files are deleted too, but then >they won't be deleted long enough for the file server to purge them >automatically to create more space, this might eventually crash the >network. > > >Nikhil Dakwala I agree that using a network drive to store temporary Windows swap files, (more of a problem in 386 Enh mode than in Standard/Real), can create storage problems if you're low on server disk space. The files can get big. However, I don't believe that the second scenario you described is typical behavior for a NetWare server. If you delete files, you will get that space for the next asking application, whether or not it's been purged by the user (the server will purge it then). Time really shouldn't be a factor. Jason -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
kenh@techbook.com (Ken Haynes) (04/24/91)
>"If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file >to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license >Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet >Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive >is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that >if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode >with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their >systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same >name on the root directory of the server." Use the MAP ROOT command and you solve this problem. The real issue re: swap files is the amount of network bandwidth you use putting swap files on the network. Only a few users with network swap files can clog the wire. Ken -- ****************************************************************************** * Ken Haynes, CNE | 1-900-PRO-HELP * Technical Support Product Manager, 900 Support * UUCP: {nosun, sequent, tessi} kenh@techbook
sph@logitek.co.uk (Stephen Hope) (04/25/91)
ergo@netcom.COM (Isaac Rabinovitch) writes: >In <1991Apr18.015949.26790@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >>In article <1991Apr17.130557.14349@hubcap.clemson.edu> cballen@hubcap.clemson.edu (charles allen) writes: >>>> >>>I've seen people posting previously that they used a ram drive for the >>>swap file. Wouldn't it be more efficient to tell windows NOT to use a swap >>>file in the case of a diskless station OR a crammed hard drive, and allow >>>windows to access 100% of the RAM as RAM? >>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >>comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >>the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >>3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. >That's easily dealth with: create a very small permanent swap file. >In effect, you're restricting your Windows workspace to real RAM. >I think the moral of this story is that diskless workstations are a >case of applying today's technology to yesterday's problems. Why >expend expensive network resources to avoid buying cheap winchester >disks? >-- Some of us have a lot to do with servicing these beasts, and winchester drives / monitors are the least reliable bits - Unfortunately, removing the monitor is counter productive, but the fewer spinning bits in a system the fewer there are to go wrong. > ergo@netcom.com Isaac Rabinovitch > netcom!ergo@apple.com Silicon Valley, CA > {apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo > "You might well think that... I couldn't possibly comment."
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) (04/27/91)
In article <1991Apr21.164528.12434@pbs.org> rfutscher@pbs.org writes: > > >> >>Only catch is this. You can't tell Windows not to use a swap file. And if it >>comes down to using a network workstation's resources for swapping, this is >>the preferred order..... 1) Local Hard Drive.. 2) Local RAM Drive.. >>3) NW386 Server drive.. 4) NW286 Server drive.. 5) Version 1.01 of Windows.. >> > > >"If you are useing a Novell network, do not set the temporary swap file >to a net drive. Unlike other network vendors, Novell does not license >Microsoft"s MSNet Redirector module. Because Novell is not MSNet >Redictor compatible, thr root directory of a Novell network drive >is also the root directory of the server. What this means is that >if more than one user tries to run windows in 386 enhanced mode >with their temporary swap file set to the same Novell drive, their >systems will hang because the swap files will try to be the same >name on the root directory of the server." > >page 380 of Windows 3 Power Tools. A must read book for all >windows power users. But inaccurate. You can use Map Root to eliminate this problem. Chris -- Chris Kinsman KINSMAN@WSUVM1 Washington State University 22487863@WSUVM1 Computing Service Center ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu Computing Resources Laboratory 76701.154@compuserve.com
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) (04/27/91)
In article <1991Apr24.001555.25647@npd.Novell.COM> jlamb@seneca.npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: > >Yeah, yeah.. I corrected this the first time after someone pointed it out. >You can disable paging in Windows 386 Enh mode. Cannot in Standard and Real. >A minor error considering my point which was in most environments including >diskless workstations (which started the thread) you would not want to >disable paging for Windows in 386 Enhanced mode. (More on this in my second >reply). > Bzzttt again! There is *NO* get this again *NO* paging in Standard or Real modes. There are *TEMPORARY* files which are *NOT* the same as a swapfile created in standard, real and in some instances 386EM. Chris -- Chris Kinsman KINSMAN@WSUVM1 Washington State University 22487863@WSUVM1 Computing Service Center ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu Computing Resources Laboratory 76701.154@compuserve.com
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr27.010456.6292@serval.net.wsu.edu> ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >> >>Yeah, yeah.. I corrected this the first time after someone pointed it out. >>You can disable paging in Windows 386 Enh mode. Cannot in Standard and Real. >>A minor error considering my point which was in most environments including >>diskless workstations (which started the thread) you would not want to >>disable paging for Windows in 386 Enhanced mode. (More on this in my second >>reply). >> >Bzzttt again! There is *NO* get this again *NO* paging in Standard or Real >modes. There are *TEMPORARY* files which are *NOT* the same as a swapfile >created in standard, real and in some instances 386EM. > >Chris > You know I sat here for about a millisecond with a response ready, about using the net to argue semantics, and about how Windows 3.0 DOES use paging in all three modes, and about answering the questioner's questions instead of the answerer's ego,... and then I reconsidered and figured I'd just let you play with yourself on this one.. Jason p.s. can they get you some decaf there at work dude?? -- ---- ---- Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM ---- ----
rafetmad@oxy.edu (David Ronald Giller) (04/30/91)
>In article <1991Apr27.010456.6292@serval.net.wsu.edu> ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >>> >>>Yeah, yeah.. I corrected this the first time after someone pointed it out. >>>You can disable paging in Windows 386 Enh mode. Cannot in Standard and Real. >>>A minor error considering my point which was in most environments including >>>diskless workstations (which started the thread) you would not want to >>>disable paging for Windows in 386 Enhanced mode. (More on this in my second >>>reply). >>> >>Bzzttt again! There is *NO* get this again *NO* paging in Standard or Real >>modes. There are *TEMPORARY* files which are *NOT* the same as a swapfile >>created in standard, real and in some instances 386EM. >> >>Chris >> >You know I sat here for about a millisecond with a response ready, about using >the net to argue semantics, and about how Windows 3.0 DOES use paging in all >three modes, and about answering the questioner's questions instead of the >answerer's ego,... Where do you get this one? You may disagree with the etiquette of the response, but you really ought to check your facts before you post a flame such as this. Windows does NOT, multiple repeat NOT NOT NOT use paging in anything but 386 mode. It can't, since paging is a HARDWARE feature SPECIFIC to the 386. Windows' memory management in standard and real modes uses temporary files to hold application data when it needs the memory. It's not a matter of semantics. It's not a swapfile, and it's not paged memory. The manual, page 497, states it specifically: "When running in 386 enhanced mode, Windows can simulate additional memory by _swapping_. Swapping involves moving information between memory and the hard disk to make room in memory for other information." This is paging. When Windows runs out of memory, it first discards discardable memory segments, then begins to swap application movable data segments to disk. On the same page, further down, the manual says: "In real mode or standard mode, each time you start a non-Windows application [note NON-Windows], Windows creates a temporary _application_swap_file_ for that application. When you switch away from that application [suspending it], Windows moves some or all of the application from memory to the application swap file." Note that the text in []'s is mine. This is not paging. This is simply copying unused data from memory to disk. This is a software emulation of paging that ONLY WORKS FOR NON-WINDOWS APPLICATIONS, and is why Windows takes so long to switch them in standard and real modes. Whereas with a 386 Windows can page memory in and out by using virtual memory, the other modes can't do this. As I said, this isn't a matter of semantics; it is very important to the differences in functioning of the 386 mode versus the other, and has impacts on the subject of diskless workstations. >and then I reconsidered and figured I'd just let you play with yourself on this >one.. Just what is that supposed to mean? Let's try to keep the remarks on a civil level, shall we? >Jason >p.s. can they get you some decaf there at work dude?? >-- >---- ---- > Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM >---- ---- -Dave David Giller, box 134 ---------------------------------- rafetmad@cub.oxy.edu Occidental College 1600 Campus Road <This space intentionally left blank> Los Angeles, CA 90041 -------------------------------------------------------
barryf@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (Barry B. Floyd) (04/30/91)
jlamb@npd.Novell.COM (Jason "Nematode" Lamb) writes: >In article <1991Apr27.010456.6292@serval.net.wsu.edu> ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >>> >>>Yeah, yeah.. I corrected this the first time after someone pointed it out. >>>You can disable paging in Windows 386 Enh mode. Cannot in Standard and Real. >>>A minor error considering my point which was in most environments including >>>diskless workstations (which started the thread) you would not want to >>>disable paging for Windows in 386 Enhanced mode. (More on this in my second >>>reply). >>> >>Bzzttt again! There is *NO* get this again *NO* paging in Standard or Real >>modes. There are *TEMPORARY* files which are *NOT* the same as a swapfile >>created in standard, real and in some instances 386EM. >> >>Chris >> >You know I sat here for about a millisecond with a response ready, about using >the net to argue semantics, and about how Windows 3.0 DOES use paging in all >three modes, and about answering the questioner's questions instead of the >answerer's ego,... >and then I reconsidered and figured I'd just let you play with yourself on this >one.. >Jason >p.s. can they get you some decaf there at work dude?? >-- >---- ---- > Jason Lamb jlamb@Sed.Novell.COM >---- ---- Flame me (in private) if I am wrong about the following outline: Win 3.0 Standard/Real modes use temporary files and a temporary subdirectory (if one is so designated) for purposes of swaping information out of RAM and for making interim "saves" (in some applications, e.g. PageMaker, Calendar, Clipboard). Win 3.0 Enhanced mode has Standard/Real mode functions plus the option to designate a perminent swap file, whereby contiguous sectors on a disk are preallocated for use as a swap file. Temporary saves (i.e. *.tmp) are still stored in a designate temp subdirectory or the root directory (if a temp directory is not designated). A diskless workstation would have to set the swapfile option off or set a perminent swapfile to a RAM drive and designate a RAM drive subdirectory as a temp directory. Unless I am mistaken the swapfile and the temp files must be considered separately. I imagine that a swapfile remotely located would degrade apparent speed of operations more than a temp subdirectory remotely located. With limited RAM and large applications and/or numerous applications Win 3.0 would probably have to employ a swapfile more often than an application would have to employ a interim "save" file (i.e. a *.tmp file). In order of preference: 1) Disable swapfiles in enhanced mode or somehow establish a swapfile in a RAM drive (if possible and/or reasonable). 2) Designate a temp subdirectory located in a RAM drive for any Win 3.0 mode. You will use up RAM in either case but you will preclude excessive use of remote disk space. What happens if an application does not have enough temp space? I believe PageMaker displays error messages. Lack of swapfile space in enhanced mode usually prevents you from loading data or an application (out of memory). barry -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Barry B. Floyd \\\ barry_floyd@mts.rpi.edu | | Manager Information Systems - HR \\\ usere9w9@rpitsmts | +-Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute--------------------troy, ny 12180-+
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) (05/02/91)
>>p.s. can they get you some decaf there at work dude?? >>-- > OK I will mellow. No problem... > >Win 3.0 Standard/Real modes use temporary files and a temporary >subdirectory (if one is so designated) for purposes of swaping >information out of RAM and for making interim "saves" (in some >applications, e.g. PageMaker, Calendar, Clipboard). Actually to my understanding it only swaps RAM on a switch to or from a DOS app. The swap is basically removing windows most of windows from memory. Upon switching back it is reloading windows. Other than these task switches I believe temp files are only created at the specific request of the application involved. > >Win 3.0 Enhanced mode has Standard/Real mode functions plus the >option to designate a perminent swap file, whereby contiguous >sectors on a disk are preallocated for use as a swap file. Temporary >saves (i.e. *.tmp) are still stored in a designate temp subdirectory >or the root directory (if a temp directory is not designated). > >A diskless workstation would have to set the swapfile option off >or set a perminent swapfile to a RAM drive and designate a RAM drive >subdirectory as a temp directory. Unless I am mistaken the swapfile >and the temp files must be considered separately. I imagine that >a swapfile remotely located would degrade apparent speed of operations >more than a temp subdirectory remotely located. With limited RAM and >large applications and/or numerous applications Win 3.0 would probably >have to employ a swapfile more often than an application would have to >employ a interim "save" file (i.e. a *.tmp file). > >In order of preference: > >1) Disable swapfiles in enhanced mode or somehow establish a swapfile > in a RAM drive (if possible and/or reasonable). > >2) Designate a temp subdirectory located in a RAM drive for any Win 3.0 > mode. > >You will use up RAM in either case but you will preclude excessive use of >remote disk space. > >What happens if an application does not have enough temp space? I >believe PageMaker displays error messages. Lack of swapfile space in enhanced >mode usually prevents you from loading data or an application (out of memory). > >barry > > >-- >+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Barry B. Floyd \\\ barry_floyd@mts.rpi.edu | >| Manager Information Systems - HR \\\ usere9w9@rpitsmts | >+-Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute--------------------troy, ny 12180-+ -- Chris Kinsman KINSMAN@WSUVM1 Washington State University 22487863@WSUVM1 Computing Service Center ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu Computing Resources Laboratory 76701.154@compuserve.com