swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) (04/22/91)
Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? Every utility and application insists on cluttering up these locations with their own stuff. It's next to impossible to un-install them later. And even if you keep the utility/app, you can never know for sure what belongs to Windows and what belongs to the app. This is very reminiscent of the old days when every program insisted on polluting the root directory instead of using a private directory.
Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn) (04/24/91)
To prevent your WINDOWS directory from getting too cluttered up, you may wish to move some of the WINDOWS applications to their own spot on the hard disk. I for example have moved PAINT to its own directory. Now the countless *.BMP files that my kids create no longer clutter up my WINDOWS directory. -- Bruce Dunn Vancouver, Canada a752@mindlink.UUCP
gumby@cs.mcgill.ca (Phil PRANNO) (04/24/91)
In article <67620009@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) writes: >Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup >my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? > >Every utility and application insists on cluttering up these locations with >their own stuff. It's next to impossible to un-install them later. And >even if you keep the utility/app, you can never know for sure what belongs >to Windows and what belongs to the app. Use a program (like Xtree) to sort the files of the windows directory by date. All windows files have the same date (except of course the ones that get modified like win.ini...). If you know what you installed, it is fairly easy to delete the files you no longer want. phil -- * Phil Pranno | | /\ Shred your * * gumby@cs.mcgill.ca | "I feel a song | | \ head 'till * * gumby@emf1.lan.mcgill.ca | coming on." | _\__\__, your dead *
ns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Nick Solntseff) (04/24/91)
In article <67620009@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) writes: >Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup >my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? > > ... > > I will second that! To make things worse old drivers left around can produce untoward effects! I have had to re-install Win 3 a couple of times and then there is no way of knowing what stuff to leave and what stuff to remove from all of the .INI files. Managing Win 3 systems is a real drag. It is about time we users rise up and demand from Microsoft and ALL App writers a standardized way of (1) installing Win 3 and all APPs; (2) placing all .INI information into files private to the App being installed, so that de-installation can be made automatic; (3) a history or macro-type file be kept of all installations and de-installations so that one could replay such scripts at any time without having to look for paper notes. The Win 3 system is too complex for management to be 100% reliant on cellulose or protein storage media! Where are you Microsoft and company? Nicholas Solntseff 1-416-525-9140 xtn 3443.
drv@cbnewsj.att.com (dennis.r.vogel) (04/25/91)
In article <67620009@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>, swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) writes: > Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup > my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? > Excellent idea! I, too, have the problem you mentioned. Its especially annoying to try out a new program and months after you've removed it find bits and pieces scattered throughout win.ini. I envision something like U*ix 'installpg' where you can install and uninstall packages in an orderly fashion as well as tell what is currently installed. If it exists, I'd sure like to try it out. Now, how do we get all those commercial and shareware authors to agree to a standard for installing Windows 3.0 programs? Dennis R. Vogel AT&T Bell Laboratories Lincroft, NJ
mmshah@athena.mit.edu (Milan M Shah) (04/26/91)
WRT win.ini getting full of junk from programs that you have tried and then deleted, (and at the risk of sounding holier than thou :-) I would like to say that the best way to attack the problem is to prevent it. Win 3.0 has excellent facilities for each program to maintain its own .ini file. Thus most programs should not touch win.ini at all. In fact, using your own private .ini file is as simple as modifying just a couple of function calls. An added benefit is that these .ini files are much shorter, so finding key-value pairs is much faster. Unfortunately, this requires work from the programmer, and the user can do little about it. If a commercial program did this cloberring up of win.ini, I would definitely complain to the manufacturer. At this point, I can see no need for an application to use win.ini at all. Moreover, the private .ini file should reside with the program module, and not require that it be present in the windows directory. This can be implemented with just a couple of extra system calls (to determine where the program was launched from). If anyone needs code to see how to use private .ini files, I would be more than happy to oblige. Milan .
tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) (04/29/91)
In article <67620009@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) writes: >Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup >my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? Sure, the DEL command. :-) >Every utility and application insists on cluttering up these locations with >their own stuff. It's next to impossible to un-install them later. I don't know why it's supposed to be difficult to clean a paragraph out of WIN.INI. They're generally very self explanatory. As for cleaning app files out of \WINDOWS, better to ask why you installed them there in the first place. There is generally no reason to do so. Anywhere in your PATH will do the trick. > And >even if you keep the utility/app, you can never know for sure what belongs >to Windows and what belongs to the app. If you keep the ZIP files around, there are utilities that know how to look for extracted files and delete them. >This is very reminiscent of the old days when every program insisted on >polluting the root directory instead of using a private directory. Quite so, and usually for the same reason: user laziness. -- Show me a sane man and I will ///O\ Tom Neff cure him for you. -- Carl Jung \\\O/ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM
swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) (04/29/91)
++ >>Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup ++ >>my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? ++ ++ Use a program (like Xtree) to sort the files of the windows directory ++ by date. All windows files have the same date (except of course the ++ ones that get modified like win.ini...). If you know what you ++ installed, it is fairly easy to delete the files you no longer want. ------- Thanks for the suggestion, but this technique is not adequate. I've noticed that a number of lines in WIN.INI make reference to these "newer" files, and so I'm stuck with deciding how to remove ALL these references in a reliable manner. I'm also bothered by some utiltiies that CHANGE a line in WIN.INI rather than inserting a line. To un-install, I need to determine the suitable replacement value (probably the original value.) Keeping backups of WIN.INI before every install is somewhat fruitless, unless I uninstall everything in the exact reverse order that I installed them. My search goes on...
indra@brahms.amd.com (Indra Singhal) (04/30/91)
A rather brutal way (for the person doing it) is to reinstall Windows on
a different drive (if the masochistic user has a clean drive to install
it on) and then save the directory contents and compare what the bare
installation has and what it doesnt...
The Win.ini too can be 'diff'd or compared to look for all extraneous
gunk when can then be (carefully) edited out (after saving the
original). Took me a good 3 hours to do the last time I did it!
I agree, Windows is growing up and becoming a full OS and there need to
be tools to manage it.
--
iNDRA | indra@amd.com or {ames apple uunet}!amd!indra
| (Indra Singhal) (408) 749-5445; Advanced Micro Devices
| MS 167; Box 3453; 901, Thompson Pl., Sunnyvale, CA 94088jim@tortuga.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Jim (James) Ruehlin) (04/30/91)
In article <2815B8B4.4000@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> ns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Nick Solntseff) writes: >>Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup >>my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? >I will second that! To make things worse old drivers left around can >produce untoward effects! I have had to re-install Win 3 a couple of >times and then there is no way of knowing what stuff to leave and what >stuff to remove from all of the .INI files. > >Managing Win 3 systems is a real drag. It is about time we users rise >1-416-525-9140 xtn 3443. I agree completely. Comparing the Mac to Win 3.0, the Mac requires very little in the way of system management. If you don't need a driver anymore, you can throw it out of the system file - no changes in win.ini or any other xxx.ini. Most configuration and initialization information for any type of application on the Mac is stored entirely within the program itself. Since Win 3.0 still uses the old DOS file management scheme it my be a problem that exists until DOS goes bye-bye (at least as far as a platform for launching Windows is concerned), so lets have a Windows file system that can use DOS, instead of vice-versa. (Hmm... sounds like the beginning to the old "Here comes OS2" stream...) - Jim Ruehlin
moss@moss.TTI.COM (Moss) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr26.002159.23869@athena.mit.edu>, mmshah@athena.mit.edu (Milan M Shah) writes: > I would like to say that the best way to attack the problem > is to prevent it. Win 3.0 has excellent facilities for each program to > maintain its own .ini file. Thus most programs should not touch win.ini at > all. In fact, using your own private .ini file is as simple as modifying > just a couple of function calls. An added benefit is that these .ini files > are much shorter, so finding key-value pairs is much faster. > > Unfortunately, this requires work from the programmer, and the user can do > little about it. If a commercial program did this cloberring up of win.ini, > I would definitely complain to the manufacturer. At this point, I can see > no need for an application to use win.ini at all. I strongly agree with the above and urge programmers to follow Milan's advice. (as I do) However, I disagree with the following: > Moreover, the private > .ini file should reside with the program module, and not require that it > be present in the windows directory. This can be implemented with just a > couple of extra system calls (to determine where the program was launched > from). Doing this would prevent the program from being used from a network drive and would prevent multiple users of the same PC from maintaining different configurations. So ... use private .ini files but use windows default directory placement. Finally, I would suggest that the full path of a programs .ini file should be a "command line" parameter. This allows for individual preferences on .ini file placement and multiple configurations by clicking different icons. Les Moss moss@tti.com Citicorp TTI 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2982 Santa Monica, CA 90405
liggio@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Vincent J. Liggio) (04/30/91)
I would recommend that all applications are put into a separate directory. I use a directory called \windows\winstuff. I put all my programs there. But before I start unzipping into the directory I put the program on my d: drive (ram disk), and test it there to see if I like it (if public domain)... This way I only have the programs I want, and their necessary files in one spot. For the win.ini, notice that there is a certain spot where the windows part ends, and where other programs add stuff. When you first install windows, and finish setting it up (printers, colors, mouse and keyboard speed, ports, etc...) take a look at you win.ini. Notice the last group of info (each section is delineated by its function, ie [Colors] is the color section), and from that point on, anything that is added you will be able to recognize. Also make a copy of your win.ini, and keep it in a safe place. Vince
tanida@forseti.css.gov (Tom Tanida) (05/01/91)
In article <1991Apr29.191020.5406@SanDiego.NCR.COM>, jim@tortuga (Jim (James) Ruehlin) writes: >>1-416-525-9140 xtn 3443. >I agree completely. Comparing the Mac to Win 3.0, the Mac requires very >little in the way of system management. If you don't need a driver anymore, >you can throw it out of the system file - no changes in win.ini or any other >xxx.ini. Most configuration and initialization information for any >type of application on the Mac is stored entirely within the program >itself. Since Win 3.0 still uses the old DOS file management scheme it >my be a problem that exists until DOS goes bye-bye (at least as far as >a platform for launching Windows is concerned), so lets have a Windows >file system that can use DOS, instead of vice-versa. > >(Hmm... sounds like the beginning to the old "Here comes OS2" stream...) How about making DOS a Windows application, rather than making Windows a DOS application? :-) Anyhoo, I'll second what this poster has to say. An alternative might be to break up the win.ini file- I'd prefer to see the win.ini file contain only parameters for applications (kind of like an .xresourcerc or .Xdefaults file under X-windows), and have driver/basic Windows stuff in another file (not to be confused with system.ini :-) ). -Tom
s902114@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Zen [Stuart Bishop]=) (05/02/91)
tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
:-)As for cleaning app files out of \WINDOWS, better to ask why you
:-)installed them there in the first place. There is generally no reason
:-)to do so. Anywhere in your PATH will do the trick.
That's funny. \windows isn't in my path anymore. All it takes is changing
the paths of things like paint.exe to \windows\paint.exe or in my case
\windows\bmp\paint.exe. And a bit of editing in the win.ini.
One thing I *REALLY* hate are apps which tell you they need to be put on the
path when all it requires is a single batch file to call it. In window's
case, the programs called from the program manager don't even require this.
:-)>This is very reminiscent of the old days when every program insisted on
:-)>polluting the root directory instead of using a private directory.
:-)Quite so, and usually for the same reason: user laziness.
Or because installation programs frequently do little but copy the files
to a directory, and maybe modify the path for you.
Or because they dont feel like telling a user how to create a batch file
which calls the right programs, and make sure it is in the path when
the above is much easier to accomplish.
Does having a huge path slow down searching for programs? I assumed so,
and have never actually read the arguments on the subject.
--
_____ Two elephants fell off a cliff. Boom Boom.
// // __ //
// / \ I\ I for a good time call //
// (-- I \I alias s902114@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au //
// \__/ I I Stuart Bishop or zen@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au //
((___________________________________________________________________//
--
_____ Two elephants fell off a cliff. Boom Boom.
// // __ //drv@cbnewsj.att.com (dennis.r.vogel) (05/08/91)
PC Magazine Vol. 10 No. 10 has a utility that purports to aid in the task of managing files for windows applications. I haven't read the article yet so I don't know how far it goes. Sorry I don't have the magazine in front of me for the date but its in the vicinity of May 28. Dennis R. Vogel AT&T Bell Laboratories Lincroft, NJ
s907396@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Miramar [Eugene Mok]) (05/11/91)
galenr@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Galen Raben) writes: >swh@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Steve Harrold) writes... >>Is there a procedure or tool documented/offered somewhere that will cleanup >>my WIN.INI file and WINDOWS directory? >I was going to say that in the latest issue of PC magazine they have a utility >for dealing with this, dunno how good it is, but should beat having to do this >manually :-) What issue of PC Magazine is that in? The latest I could get from Australian newstands was the Feb. 26 issue. Geeez, I guess we are a bit slow. :) Anyway can anyone point me to an FTP site where I can get it or could someone email the program to me? Thanks, -- -----/ _ _ \-------------------------------------------------------------------- | o o | Eugene Mok s907396@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Melbourne OZ) \ ^ / eugene@pogo.ai.mit.edu (USA) ------\ o /---------------------------------------------------------------------