inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) (02/08/85)
*** REPLACE THIS MESS *** > By the way: if more people could suppress their bias towards japanese cars, > they would venture up to their local Volkswagen dealers and check out the > new Golfs and Jettas. They are both entirely redesigned, offering more room, > better handling smoother ride, etc. The Golf is made in the US of A, and is > identical to it's german namesake. The Jetta, which looks very sharp, is > made in Germany. In comparison to almost all japanese cars, VWs have freely > revving engines (with fuel injection, by the way), and have struck an > admirable balance between handling and ride. Another plus: while a lot of > japanese car dealers seem to be magnanamous by only charging a few percent > above list, VW dealers charge below list. A friend of mine just purchased a > Golf with almost all options except automatic and air, and pays $8900. Do > not forget that the Golf is probably going to be around for a few years, > instead of being replaced by a new japanese can two three years. > > > Bernard H. Schwab Oh really? The vw people are well-known for their propensity to put absolute junk on the road. The Japanese have succeeded with autos the same way they did with cameras and motocycles, the same way they are succeeding with letter-quality printers and other computer peripherals, and the same way that Apple is succeeding: by thoroughly researching market trends and needs, comparing what it currently available against what is desirable, then designing and building it better and cheaper than anyone might have imagined. Cameras are an excellent analogy to the situation with autos in fact: Before the Japanese entered the market, the germans were building there same old hasselblads, the us of a was putting out tons of brownies and playing with the instant camera. The Japanese now are renowned for their optics, product reliability, and features. The camera of choice for ALL professionals? Why the Nikon, of course. So too with cars. The germans will never build anything to compared to what Toyota has been doing all along. vws are known for their schlocky design and their use of cheap materials that fall apart if you look at them wrong. The germans have no concept of the term 'appropriate technology'. If plastic will work til the car is a year or so old, then plastic it is. Not just any plastic, mind you, but plastic specifically chosen to rot with continued exposure to air. When the Japanese use plastics, they choose nylons and other tough materials that will stand up to the task. Don't talk to me about "quality" coming out of germany. Did you ever hear this story -- A guy finds a bottle on a beach, and when he's cleaning it up, a genie comes out of it. The genie tells him that for a reward, he would grant one wish. The man thinks for a while, and says, "I'd like a car dealership in a major city." POOF! He finds himself with a vw dealership in downtown Tokyo. -- Gary Benson John Fluke Mfg Co PO Box C-9090 Everett WA USA 98206 (206) 356-5367 { allegra, microsoft, ssc-vax, telematic, tikal, uw-beaver, wavetek } fluke!inc + this is the day which the lord hath made; let us rejoice and be glad in it! +
kens@orca.UUCP (Ken Serack) (02/11/85)
Gary Benson writes: > > Don't talk to me about "quality" coming out of germany. Did you ever hear > this story -- > > A guy finds a bottle on a beach, and when he's cleaning it up, > a genie comes out of it. The genie tells him that for a reward, > he would grant one wish. The man thinks for a while, and says, > "I'd like a car dealership in a major city." POOF! He finds > himself with a vw dealership in downtown Tokyo. > > > Gary Benson John Fluke Mfg Co PO Box C-9090 Everett WA USA 98206 (206) 356-5367 I personally wouldn't mind having a VW dealership in Tokyo. I occasionally get automotive magazines from Japan, and the real hot selling cars (new and used) seem to be the MBZ's, BMW's, Porche's and VW's. Oh, and the American cars are also very popular (Vette's of any year are VERY much in demand and expensive). It seems that the foreign car as a status symbol is popular in Japan. Ken Serack Tektronix, Inc. Wilsonville Or. tektronix!tekecs!kens
jackh@zehntel.UUCP (jack hagerty) (02/12/85)
> Cameras are an excellent analogy to the situation with autos in > fact: Before the Japanese entered the market, the germans were building there > same old hasselblads, the us of a was putting out tons of brownies and > playing with the instant camera. The Japanese now are renowned for their > optics, product reliability, and features. The camera of choice for ALL > professionals? Why the Nikon, of course. > > -- > Gary Benson John Fluke Mfg Co This reply really doesn't belong in net.auto but I'm putting it here just to set the record straight. 1) Hasselblaad is Swedish, not German. 2) The Germans and the Swiss still make the best optics. 3) What the Japaneese have done is produce camera systems that are 70% as good for half the price. 4) It depends on the professional. Nikon seems to be the choice of reporters. Hasselblaad is the choice of medium format users while craftsmen who want to use small format seem to prefer Leica (Lieca?). -- Jack Hagerty, Zehntel Automation Systems ...!ihnp4!zehntel!jackh
kanner@tymix.UUCP (Herb Kanner) (02/13/85)
The last time I looked, the Hasselblad was made in Sweden. And, talking about German cameras--have you ever heard of the Leica! H. Kanner Tymnet, Inc.
haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (02/13/85)
Unbelievable! I'm off the net for ten days, and this is the fourth article ... In article <525@tpvax.fluke.UUCP> inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) writes: >Oh really? The vw people are well-known for their propensity to put absolute >junk on the road. Oh. How come I haven't heard about it? >So too with cars. The germans will never build anything to compared to what >Toyota has been doing all along. vws are known for their schlocky design and >their use of cheap materials that fall apart if you look at them wrong. The >germans have no concept of the term 'appropriate technology'. If plastic >will work til the car is a year or so old, then plastic it is. Not just any >plastic, mind you, but plastic specifically chosen to rot with continued >exposure to air. When the Japanese use plastics, they choose nylons and >other tough materials that will stand up to the task. Ahem. I have friends with VWs from model years 1968, 1971, 1972, 1974, 1975, 1977, 1981, 1984. None of them have suffered the 'cracked dash syndrome' so common in US cars, not to mention the durability of the seats or miscellaneous plastic parts. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong places. Or I haven't stared hard enough. What gives? > A guy finds a bottle on a beach, and when he's cleaning it up, > a genie comes out of it. The genie tells him that for a reward, > he would grant one wish. The man thinks for a while, and says, > "I'd like a car dealership in a major city." POOF! He finds > himself with a vw dealership in downtown Tokyo. Not *that* funny. VW is in fact the best-selling import in Japan. Also, VW has a joint venture with Nissan in Japan, building Santanas (aka Quantums) for the Japanese market. \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen
dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) (02/13/85)
Well, I might as well throw in my comments too. I own a 1981 VW rabbit S. It has 50000+ miles on it. So far the most significant problem with it was an oil pressure sensor that developed a leak, slowly drooling oil down the side of the engine. Nothing else. So far, I'm pretty happy with it. My previous car was a Honda Civic, and given a choice now I'd still take the rabbit. There are a bunch of minor improvements: it carries a LOT of fairly bulky stuff (the roof is high). The back seat is more comfortable. The front seatback angle is adjustable. The view is better. But the biggest difference between it and any other car I've driven is the engine, and I attribute the difference to fuel injection. Normally, when I start the car, I just turn the key to "start" for about a half second - I don't even wait till I hear the engine fire - it almost always has by that time. It starts when it's COLD. It runs well when cold. It revs freely to 6000 RPM. It puts out a decent amount of torque. It NEVER stutters when you floor the accelerator. (How much can the Bosch fuel injection system add to the cost of the car, anyway? I'd gladly pay several hundred dollars extra (over a carburetor) if both were available in the same car.) I've never had any trouble with either fuel line ice or vapour lock - I attribute this to the high fuel system pressure (~70PSI). And there are a few other nice engineering touches too: rabbits shipped to Canada have a larger battery than those going to the U.S. (How many American manufacturers do that?). The rear window defogger is standard. (Why this should be considered an "option" in Canada is beyond me, but it was on the American cars I looked at.) The sparkplugs and distributor are right on the front of the engine; the oil filter is not too bad for access either. And the engine has less emissions plumbing restricting access than most other cars of that vintage I've seen.
bryan@wucs.UUCP (Bryan Ewbank) (02/14/85)
> I personally wouldn't mind having a VW dealership in Tokyo. I > occasionally get automotive magazines from Japan, and the real hot > selling cars (new and used) seem to be the MBZ's, BMW's, Porche's and > VW's. Oh, and the American cars are also very popular (Vette's of any > year are VERY much in demand and expensive). It seems that the foreign > car as a status symbol is popular in Japan. > Ken Serack > Tektronix, Inc. > Wilsonville Or. > tektronix!tekecs!kens Groan. Having been to Tokyo for a summer, I can tell you that Large American Cars do not do well. They block traffic. They take two parking places. The steering wheel is on the wrong side. Worst of all is that there are a large number of streets where they can't go at all. Bryan Ewbank bryan@wucs.UUCP -- There once was a naive unix user Bryan Ewbank Who thought he was a real abuser bryan@wucs.UUCP (..!ihnp4!wucs!bryan) When the system staff Center for Engineer Computing Had enough of his gaffe Washington University, St. Louis MO The abuser user was loser (314) 889 5095
rome@nmtvax.UUCP (02/14/85)
In article <> inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) writes: >> By the way: if more people could suppress their bias towards japanese cars, >> they would venture up to their local Volkswagen dealers and check out the >> new Golfs and Jettas. They are both entirely redesigned, offering more room, >> better handling smoother ride, etc. The Golf is made in the US of A, and is >> identical to it's german namesake. The Jetta, which looks very sharp, is >> made in Germany. In comparison to almost all japanese cars, VWs have freely >> revving engines (with fuel injection, by the way), and have struck an >> admirable balance between handling and ride. Another plus: while a lot of >> japanese car dealers seem to be magnanamous by only charging a few percent >> above list, VW dealers charge below list. A friend of mine just purchased a >> Golf with almost all options except automatic and air, and pays $8900. Do >> not forget that the Golf is probably going to be around for a few years, >> instead of being replaced by a new japanese can two three years. >> >> >> Bernard H. Schwab > > >The germans will never build anything to compared to what >Toyota has been doing all along. vws are known for their schlocky design and >their use of cheap materials that fall apart if you look at them wrong. The >germans have no concept of the term 'appropriate technology'. > ... > >Don't talk to me about "quality" coming out of germany. I too have never seen a VW 1) That was good as Japenese car 2) That was worth $8900 Also, a VW built in the US? Now you've got marginal engineering with slip-shod workmanship. (Ugh!) However, don't throw away a whole bushel of apples just because you find one bad one. Before you seal your opinion about German cars, look at the BMW and Mercades-Benz. After looking at these two examples of automotive art, I think that you find it hard to say that they are techically obsolent or "cheap". Jeff
oneill@lll-crg.ARPA (Neil J. O'Neill) (02/18/85)
> >When the Japanese use plastics, they choose nylons and > >other tough materials that will stand up to the task. If this were only true. I have a '77 Chevy Luv (made by Isuzu) which is suffering quite a lot of plastic rot. The plastic that covers my sun visors is flaking off in large brittle chunks. The plastic hinge used on the cover for the cab-light has cracked causing the cover to fall off. The weather stripping on the driver's door is broken in several places. And last, but not least, the dash is cracked in several places. The unfortunate part about all of this is the fantastic prices the dealers charge for replacement of these cheap plastic parts. For example, o New sun visors -- $20.00 each (EACH!) o new cab light -- $16.95 o new weather strip -- $29.95 each (i.e., $60 for both doors) I tried looking for a cab-light at a junk yard, but the only one I found was broken in exactly the same place as mine.
hkr4627@acf4.UUCP (Hedley K. J. Rainnie) (02/19/85)
To H Kanner: Leica's R4 SLR is really a Minolta XD-11 spruced up with a
quadrupled (or so) price.
To J Haggerty:MODERN PHOTOGRPHY seems to think German superiority is
more prejudice than fact. "The...28, 50, and 135mm Zeiss
lenses made in Japan for the Yashica/Contax line are equal
to, if not slightly better than their German counterparts
according to our tests." -Oct 1984 (Though they state that
Zeiss' exotic lenses are among the best in the world)
It's my observation that most fashion photographers like
the Nikon F3.
Rei Shinozuka
ihnp4!cmcl2!acf4!hkr4627hlh@security.UUCP (Henry L. Hall) (02/22/85)
I have been the owner of a '74 Dasher, a '82 Scirocco and a '84
Scirocco and have found them all to be rather well engineered. The Dasher
did start to have compression problems at 50K miles due to an intake manifold
bolt not having been re-torqued correctly after a valve adjustment (an intake
valve burned while running too lean, wish I had hydraulic valves). To be fair,
it also had the cracked dash problem common with the '74, '75 Dashers. The '82
Scirocco was traded to get the GTI 1.8 litre and the short ratio gears.
The 84 has 15 K on it and has had no major problems at all.
No doubt that Toyota, Nissan, and Honda also put out quite a fine
product though I know from a dealership in my area who sells both Hondas and
VWs that they prefer to sell Honda because the dealer markup allows the same
profit to be made from selling one stripped Honda Accord as two semi-equipped
Sciroccos (air conditioning and a sunroof).
Henry L. Hall
{allegra, cbosgd, decvax, ihnp4, philabs, utzoo} !linus!hlh {UUCP}bandy@lll-crg.ARPA (Andrew Scott Beals) (02/23/85)
> Groan. Having been to Tokyo for a summer, ...Large American > Cars do not do well. ... > Worst of all is that there are a large > number of streets where they can't go at all. Tee hee! There are a number of places in Boston where I have many many problems getting around in my Toyota 4x4 - I just can't turn without either driving up on the sidewalk or backing up a little bit and trying again. (good thing I'm never down there during the day!) andy beals arpa: bandy@gluteus uucp: {sun!lll-crg,ihnp4!mit-eddie}!bandy