db@cs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) (05/31/91)
What tools do people recommend for programming Windows? I know of the following: Microsoft SDK. Borland C++ (and other languages). Digitalk Smalltalk/V. Which of these are best? Are there any others I should look at? Please bear in mind that I'm on a very limited budget. Are there any free C++ classes for programming Windows, like the InterViews library for X? I suspect that the Smalltalk approach is probably the easiest, because the system should take care of memory management and lots of low-level details. Dave. -- Dave Berry, LFCS, Edinburgh Uni. db%lfcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk "So they gave him a general anaesthetic and cleaned him with Swarfega."
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) (06/01/91)
In article <11803@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> db@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes: >What tools do people recommend for programming Windows? I know of the >following: > >Microsoft SDK. > >Borland C++ (and other languages). > >Digitalk Smalltalk/V. > >Which of these are best? Are there any others I should look at? Please >bear in mind that I'm on a very limited budget. > >Are there any free C++ classes for programming Windows, like the InterViews >library for X? > >I suspect that the Smalltalk approach is probably the easiest, because >the system should take care of memory management and lots of low-level >details. > I would suspect Microsofts new Visual Basic would be the easiest. It will be listing for $199 and not require the SDK which would make it a fairly reasonable way to start into windows development. Chris -- Chris Kinsman KINSMAN@WSUVM1 Washington State University 22487863@WSUVM1 Computing Service Center ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu Computing Resources Laboratory 76701.154@compuserve.com
objtch@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Peter Goodall) (06/04/91)
ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: >In article <11803@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> db@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes: >>What tools do people recommend for programming Windows? I know of the >>following: >> >>Microsoft SDK. >> >>Borland C++ (and other languages). >> >>Digitalk Smalltalk/V. >> >>Which of these are best? Are there any others I should look at? Please >>bear in mind that I'm on a very limited budget. >> >>Are there any free C++ classes for programming Windows, like the InterViews >>library for X? >> >>I suspect that the Smalltalk approach is probably the easiest, because >>the system should take care of memory management and lots of low-level >>details. >> >I would suspect Microsofts new Visual Basic would be the easiest. It will >be listing for $199 and not require the SDK which would make it a fairly >reasonable way to start into windows development. I believe that it's still the dreaded BASIC. Listen folks, its time to get some real development leverage. Look carefully at other languages like Smalltalk and forget writing linked-lists and dictionaries, also let the system do your iteration for you. I can't remember having an off-by-one iteration error in two years (well maybe one :-). Also you can forget about those damned pointers, and long compile-link cycles. -- Peter Goodall - Smalltalk Systems Consultant - objtch@extro.ucc.su.oz.au ObjecTech Pty. Ltd. - Software Tools, Training, and Advice 162 Burns Bay Rd, LANE COVE, NSW, AUSTRALIA. - Phone/Fax: +61 2 418-7433
jordan@aero.org (Larry M. Jordan) (06/04/91)
I've been using Turbo Pascal for Windows the past 2 weeks and find it hard to beat. Windows development from within windows--the IDE is like having multiple notepads open, but each is the TP editor with that command set if you want it. The debugger works in an alternate screen (in text mode), so you don't need to buy a second monitor (mono) and card. The package comes with WinCrt and WinDOS units to give you DOS-like programming capabilities--eases the transition into Windows: I find I use writeln's to the standard output window to monitor progress. What I like best about this package is that I don't have to worry about memory model nonsense, especially when I'm trying to learn Windows, which I consider to be task enough. (Or you can look at it as being stuck with one memory model [medium], if it pleases.) I did some timing studies with an application I'm developing, comparing Turbo Pascal with Zortech C/C++ small and medium memory model versions (identical). For what it's worth the small memory model Zortech app. was 25% faster at completing the task and the medium model version was 12% faster. I'm willing to live with this difference, considering how productive I've become: I've created two(!) DLLs; picked up OWL fundamentals without too much trouble; used the WRT to build the menu's and incorporate these resources via a source directive. (You never have to build a make file, linker response file or whatever.) In just two weeks I have a working Windows app. built on top of ObjectWindows and the Windows API, which views satellite imagery. [I'm not considered an "application" programmer by my friends.] Once I've learned Windows, I might go back to using an SDK-like approach to application development if I want that last ounce of performance, but I hope not. I'll build those critcal routines as Zortech C/C++ or JPI Modula-2 DLLs or handcraft them in inline TPW assembler. I hope the other language vendors are watching TPW to see what Windows development ought to be like. --Larry [I reread this. It does sound like vendor copy, sorry.]
rb9a@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Raul Baragiola) (06/04/91)
In article <objtch.675996729@extro> objtch@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Peter Goodall) writes: >ckinsman@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Chris Kinsman) writes: > >>In article <11803@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> db@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes: >>>What tools do people recommend for programming Windows? I know of the >>>following: >>> >>>Microsoft SDK. >>> >>>Borland C++ (and other languages). >>> >>>Digitalk Smalltalk/V. >>> >>>Which of these are best? Are there any others I should look at? Please >>>bear in mind that I'm on a very limited budget. >>> >>>Are there any free C++ classes for programming Windows, like the InterViews >>>library for X? >>> >>>I suspect that the Smalltalk approach is probably the easiest, because >>>the system should take care of memory management and lots of low-level >>>details. >>> > >>I would suspect Microsofts new Visual Basic would be the easiest. It will >>be listing for $199 and not require the SDK which would make it a fairly >>reasonable way to start into windows development. > >I believe that it's still the dreaded BASIC. Listen folks, its time to get >some real development leverage. Look carefully at other languages like >Smalltalk and forget writing linked-lists and dictionaries, also let the >system do your iteration for you. I can't remember having an off-by-one >iteration error in two years (well maybe one :-). > >Also you can forget about those damned pointers, and long compile-link >cycles. > >-- >Peter Goodall - Smalltalk Systems Consultant - objtch@extro.ucc.su.oz.au I notice a slight bias in your job title (:-)). There are many, many users who use BASIC for calculations or to develop short lived programs, like those used to solve non-recurrent scientific and engineering problems. BASIC's small overhead is very important when all you want is to solve a few equations. There are also lots of people who do data acquisition and control in research, where the design of the "system" changes frequently and who do not want to spend time writing assembly language interface libraries, if they are already available for BASIC. -- Raul A. Baragiola \Internet: raul@virginia.edu Dept. Nuclear Engnr. and Engnr. Physics \Phone: (804)-982-2907 University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22901 \ Fax: (804)-924-6270