ron@wjvax.UUCP (Ron Christian) (02/28/85)
There's something that's starting to bother me about the
super high output fours, such as the turbo daytona, etc.
Are these machines reliable? Gives me pause to think 'cause,
well, my Ford 302 V8 has just turned over 174 thousand miles
without an engine rebuild. Sure, the engine is noisy when you
back off on the throttle at speed, but the point is it still
RUNS, on original bearings, connecting rods, et. al., and
still has plenty of guts. (I'm putting head gaskets in it
at the moment.)
I'll be in the market for a new car some day, and I'm looking
at sporty things. The high output four bangers have exceeding
nift from a performance standpoint: low weight (and less bias
towards the front), 150 - 170 horses, and around 30 MPG. Contrast
that to a 302 or 305 V8 with 16 - 18 MPG, and depending on the
tuning, 150 to 205 HP, and a lot of weight over the front tires.
In overall performance, the four banger wins. (My opinion, guys!)
But....
I buy cars to keep, not to get rid of in 3- years. Seems to me
that a medium tuned normally asperated V8 will have a chance of
hitting the big 100K, where the *comparable output* super high
performance turbo'd four banger will die a horrible death in a
short time. Now, I've heard that the Chrysler 2.2 liter turbo'd
four, for instance, is built up some in the lower end. But is it
designed to really last, or only to not blow up during the average
3 years that people keep their cars? Does anyone know? Seems to
me that the safest bet is still the big engines. (Or what passes
for big these days.)
--
Ron Christian (Watkins-Johnson Co. San Jose, Calif.)
{pesnta,twg,ios,qubix,turtlevax,tymix}!wjvax!rongoodwin@ncr-tp.UUCP (Tom Goodwin) (03/06/85)
> There's something that's starting to bother me about the > super high output fours, such as the turbo daytona, etc. > Are these machines reliable? Gives me pause to think ... > I buy cars to keep, not to get rid of in 3- years. Seems to me > that a medium tuned normally asperated V8 will have a chance of > hitting the big 100K, where the *comparable output* super high > performance turbo'd four banger will die a horrible death in a > short time. I think there are several factors in reference to getting reliability from a *performance* engine beyond the question of original design. I haven't seen many cars with 4-cyl engines that will run the miles an american V8 will without requiring major work(my own BMW 2002-190K and never had the head off, is an execption). I think long term wear can be related to how much of the power of the engine you use. An example would that in typical driving you use about 25% of your V8's available power while the typical four is putting out 40-50% of its power. The V8 loafs its way through 95% of your driving while having the power the 5% of the time when you need it(depends on how you drive). Few american or japanese cars would last a thousand miles if they were driven flat out. Car&Driver magazine had an interesting article about trying to reach 200mph with a turbo 350 firebird. Even though thier engines were built by a shop that hadn't had trouble with turbos before, they went through about 4 engines before they got one to last to 200mph. Very few people get full power out of an engine for more than 10 seconds. If a turbo four is designed to withstand the short term stresses and is not mistreated, it should probably last at least as well as a non- turbo four. The turbocharger itself is of course a reliability problem, but there have been a lot of improvements in the technology lately. The turbo engines actually run lower compression ratios than the non- turbos, and so have have less stress during cruising conditions. Some people have only two speeds, on and off, but for the rest of us who put a lot of miles in traffic where the speed is limited don't use the power often. I don't think the reliability of any of the general run of fours will be equal the the good V8s though, especially if loaded heavily. That's why I'll keep my 289 for one of our cars and rebuild when necessary. For a commuter car which can also be fun to drive, however, the turbos look good. Tom Goodwin
ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) (03/08/85)
> > There's something that's starting to bother me about the > > super high output fours, such as the turbo daytona, etc. > > Are these machines reliable? Gives me pause to think > ... > > I haven't seen many cars with 4-cyl engines that will run the miles an > american V8 will without requiring major work(my own BMW 2002-190K and > never had the head off, is an execption). I think long term wear can > be related to how much of the power of the engine you use. > ... Few american > or japanese cars would last a thousand miles if they were driven flat > out. BUNK. Yes, thats what I said. BUNK. I put my foot full to the floor at least 75 percent of the time when I am accelerating from a stop, and from time to time on the freeway,in my HONDA civic (You have to do that when you don't have the power of a v8... :-)?) The car now has about 140K miles on it. Still doesn't use oil. Water pump at about 120k miles has been the total repairs. > ... Very > few people get full power out of an engine for more than 10 seconds. > Again bunk. Please see above. > ... Some > people have only two speeds, on and off, but for the rest of us who put > a lot of miles in traffic where the speed is limited don't use the power > often. > Never been a VW driver eh? When one grew up on 40 horses, digipedal was all there was. > I don't think the reliability of any of the general run of fours will > be equal the the good V8s though, especially if loaded heavily. I trust you are speaking only of the turbo fours when making these comments as they are sure not the case for the non turbos! -- E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems Comedo ergo dorum This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.
haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (03/09/85)
In article <1248@amdahl.UUCP> ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) writes: >> ... Some >> people have only two speeds, on and off, but for the rest of us who put >> a lot of miles in traffic where the speed is limited don't use the power >> often. >Never been a VW driver eh? When one grew up on 40 horses, digipedal >was all there was. Quite true. An older VW (40 hp or thereabouts) pretty well needed flat-out speed gathering if you ever wanted to make it up to the speed limit. >> I don't think the reliability of any of the general run of fours will >> be equal the the good V8s though, especially if loaded heavily. >I trust you are speaking only of the turbo fours when making these >comments as they are sure not the case for the non turbos! The aforementiond digipedal, 40 hp, 1.2 litre VWs tend to be amazingly reliable. It is not at all uncommon to get 100K-150K miles out of them before a rebuild if regular service and oil change intervals are followed. And it sure isn't because the engine doesn't get pushed to the limit. \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Don't cry, don't do anything No lies, back in the government No tears, party time is here again President Gas is up for president (c) Psychedelic Furs, 1982