mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) (02/25/85)
I recently acquired a used 1966 Lincoln Continental with 72,000 miles on it. In looking at the owner's manual, it says that the 460 CI engine would like 98 octane fuel. Of course, this is not available anymore. The previous owner told me that he used regular leaded fuel (which is 89 octane at the place I buy gas, where they also have a 91 octane premium unleaded). My questions: 1. Does anyone know what the highest octane of gasoline available is from a gas station? (Info about sources in the Piscataway or Holmdel, NJ areas would be particularly welcome.) 2. Given the kind of engine this is, would the engine be better off using leaded regular of the highest octane I could get, or unleaded premium of a higher octane? 3. If someone has been using an octane booster for an engine of this type I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with it. (I am more interested in good drivability and longevity than cost-no-object performance.) Sorry if this has been previously discussed. It only recently became of interest to me, so I may have missed it. Thanks for any help. -- Mike^Z Zaleski@Rutgers [allegra, ihnp4] pegasus!mzal PS: Send help quick! It only gets 10 MPG and I'm almost out of gas!
bhs@siemens.UUCP (02/26/85)
Mike: I owned a 1970 Mercury Marquis for a while (429CID). It also wanted 99 Octane. You must bear in mind that the octane measurement was changed slightly, so that in fact with today's system, your car does not need 99 octane, but slightly less (could 95 be right?). One trick I routinely did: mix, by volume, two parts unleaded premium with one part leaded regular. While gas station attendants may give you funny looks, the net effect is to increase the octane level of the resulting mixture above that of the unleaded premium. Thus, try 10 Gal. premium and 5 Gal. Reg. You should experiment a little, maybe the optimum ratio is 1:4. The real advantage of increasing octane is really only noticed if you reset your timing accordingly. This, however, will imply consistently using the mixture, or at least premium. By advancing the ignition point of your ignition, you permit the engine to burn the fuel mixture longer, ie. more efficiently. The way to do this: slowly advance ignition until the engine starts to ping under heavy acceleration at low RPM. Then, just retard slightly to make pinging go away. I would carry this logic one step further: if I was going on alonger highway cruise, I would overadvance the ignition, so that I was not able to use full power without wrecking my valves, but while I could no longer rocket up hills or make wild passes, I would get an honest 20 mpg at a constant 60 mph. Around town, of course, my mixture would plummet to around 10-12, and with overadvanced ignition, I always had to be easy on the accelerator. Bernard H. Schwab Siemens RTL, Princeton, NJ
hkr4627@acf4.UUCP (Hedley K. J. Rainnie) (02/27/85)
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
98 is pretty high for a non-hi perf car. Somestimes, what they
used to do back then was specify "research" octane, which is usually
a couple of points higher than the octane you buy at the pumps. The
rating you see today is the avareage of research and motor (I think
that's the name) octane.
My suggestion as to what kind of gas to buy is: both. I usually
mix leaded and unleaded in a 1:4 or 1:2 ratio. The unleaded premium gives
me octane, the lead in the leaded protects and lubricates the valves. I've
heard it said that mixing gas in this manner also gives you more octane than
the unleaded premium alone, but I can't attest to that. Try it!
Rei Shinozuka
ihnp4!cmcl2!acf4!hkr4627jeepcj2a@fluke.UUCP (Dale Chaudiere) (02/27/85)
My system could not find the sender for a reply, so I'm posting a followup. Here in the Pacific Northwest the Union 76 stations have Leaded Premium 92 Octane for $1.33/gal. I use it in our 1971 Opel GT.
mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) (03/01/85)
Thanks to all of you who responded so quickly to my request for information on this subject. What I have decided to do, based on sort of an "averaging" of your responses, is to alternate between Sunoco 93.5 octane unleaded premium and 91 octane leaded regular. I may, as time passes, move from a 50:50 to 66:33 ratio or something like that. The only other question is: What do I do when the government takes away all leaded gas (as I understand they plan to do)? (Isn't it great the way government does all the things we don't want and butts into our lives in lots of ways, but can't keep the streets paved or free of criminal elements who steal radar detectors?) One respondent suggested aviation fuel for high octane (and high cost). Although the cost is a minus, the real problem with this is that it would be a nuisance to get. (At 10-12 MPG, I will probably need gas rather often.) Also, cold starting is more difficult with aviation fuel. Regarding mothballs: I suppose this will keep moths out of my carburetor, but I wonder (1) why does this work (if at all)? and (2) what prevents half-disolved mothballs from rolling into the fuel line and clogging it up? Again, thanks for the replies. I would have responded to each one personally, but there were too many! It appears net.auto has many fans of big old cars with monster engines.....all just loafing along at 55 (heh heh). -- Mike^Z Zaleski@Rutgers [allegra!, ihnp4!] pegasus!mzal
ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) (03/01/85)
> I recently acquired a used 1966 Lincoln Continental with 72,000 miles > on it. In looking at the owner's manual, it says that the 460 CI > engine would like 98 octane fuel. Of course, this is not available > anymore. The previous owner told me that he used regular leaded > fuel (which is 89 octane at the place I buy gas, where they also have > a 91 octane premium unleaded). > > ... > 2. Given the kind of engine this is, would the engine be better off > using leaded regular of the highest octane I could get, or > unleaded premium of a higher octane? > Best bet is to mix 76 leaded super with a good no-lead regular. The octane of the mix is higher than either alone. (Lead has a non linear octane boost on the gas, no-lead has a higher quality stock. The dilution of the lead has low effect, the boost of octane of the no-lead has a high effect). > 3. If someone has been using an octane booster for an engine of this > type I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with it. > (I am more interested in good drivability and longevity than > cost-no-object performance.) > There was a suggestion earlier to use Naphthalene Moth Balls for an octane booster. I tried some in my car. Seemed to run fine. But my car will eat any gas, so I can't attest to the octane boost part. You could always try them and report to the net ... (20 Moth Balls per tank or so; and don't use the para-dichlorobenzene ones) E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems "give it to Mikey, he'll try anything" The opinions expressed by me are not representative of those of any other person - natural, unnatural, or fictional - and only marginally reflect my opinions as strained by the language.
jcjeff@ihlpg.UUCP (jeffreys) (03/04/85)
> Best bet is to mix 76 leaded super with a good no-lead regular. The > octane of the mix is higher than either alone. (Lead has a non linear > octane boost on the gas, no-lead has a higher quality stock. The dilution > of the lead has low effect, the boost of octane of the no-lead has a > high effect). > > E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems Isn't it illegal to mix leaded and unleaded gas ? I thought that one way of stopping people, who should use unleaded gas, from using leaded gas, was by making the nozzels on the pumps and the entry port into the gas tank different sizes. Does this only apply to cars that *must* use unleaded gas ?? -- [ You called all the way from America - Joan Armatrading ] [ You're never alone with a rubber duck - Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ || From the keys of Richard Jeffreys ( British Citizen Overseas ) || || @ AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, Illinois || ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ || General disclamer about anything and everything that I may have typed. || ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hkr4627@acf4.UUCP (Hedley K. J. Rainnie) (03/07/85)
1) After the clowns in the EPA take away our leaded, we can still use octane booster. This stuff is lead tetra-ethyl, the "lead" in leaded. It's pretty expensive, but you probably don't need too much if you're not making 103 octane. 2) As far as I know, there is nothing illegal about mixing leaded and unleaded; I do it all the time. The illegal thing is to introduce leaded gasoline into a vehicle designed for unleaded. In general, this applies to US cars 1975 or later, (for Chrysler 1976). Cars made after that date do have special fillers to prevent the leaded nozzles from being utilized. Cars before 1975 can be filled from either. (My 'Vette has a filler hole so big you could fill it with a bucket.) (signed) Speed Racer
haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (03/07/85)
In article <220@ihlpg.UUCP> jcjeff@ihlpg.UUCP (jeffreys) writes: >> Best bet is to mix 76 leaded super with a good no-lead regular. The >> octane of the mix is higher than either alone. (Lead has a non linear >> octane boost on the gas, no-lead has a higher quality stock. The dilution >> of the lead has low effect, the boost of octane of the no-lead has a >> high effect). > Isn't it illegal to mix leaded and unleaded gas ? > I thought that one way of stopping people, who should use unleaded gas, from >using leaded gas, was by making the nozzels on the pumps and the entry port >into the gas tank different sizes. > Does this only apply to cars that *must* use unleaded gas ?? Yes, indeed. It's fully legal to use unleaded gas in a car designed for leaded gas, should someone wish to. About the only case where one would want to is mixing with leaded to raise the octane ratings. However, soon everybody will need to use unleaded, since EPA is cutting allowable lead levels down by 90%. Love those wonderful environmentalists! They probably don't realize that sidestream tobacco smoke kills far more people annually than automotive lead emissions. Or what about acid rain? Noooooo, they hit where it hurts most, at our cars. EPA claims (actually our local newspaper says they claim) that all new cars use unleaded. Is this really true? Up here in Canada, all new Golfs and Jettas run on leaded fuel. Is this the reason they have 90 hp here and only 85 hp in the US? In any case, this really p*sses me off. I think we (net.auto.people) should start a petition requesting EPA to back off this legislation. Any takers? \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Don't cry, don't do anything No lies, back in the government No tears, party time is here again President Gas is up for president (c) Psychedelic Furs, 1982
ee161ang@sdcc13.UUCP (ee161ang) (03/11/85)
Tom H. said something about small numbers of people dying from lead emissions. Well, it is true that not many people die from them, but I suspect the average I.Q. of the worlds population is lower because of it. Lead affects the nervous system and can cause forgetfulness (where DID you leave those keys?) and possibly some learning disorders in children. Frankly, I think the elimination of leaded gas is a small price to pay for a cut in all the crap we spew into the air. E. Orange
kunz@hplsle.UUCP (kunz) (03/12/85)
Tom's reponse to this note string demonstrates the basic problem with
the way our government operates... special interest groups. Tom wants
to tell the EPA that we need lead in our gasoline and they would better
spend their time triing to eliminate tobacco smoke, acid rain....
I would say the EPA should not be influenced by special interests. If
lead out of all gas would improve the environment, then it is a good thing,
regardless of how it effects special interest groups. And as speed racer
points out, tetra-ethyl lead is available in concentrated form for those
who *really* nead it.
The essence of the proposed legislation is to keep lead out of cars that
were intended to be run on unleaded.
Bob Kunz
{hplabs!hp-pcd, fluke, teltone}!hplsla!kunz
(206) 335-2135haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (03/14/85)
In article <5100001@hplsle.UUCP> kunz@hplsle.UUCP (Bob Kunz) writes: >Tom's reponse to this note string demonstrates the basic problem with >the way our government operates... special interest groups. Tom wants >to tell the EPA that we need lead in our gasoline and they would better >spend their time triing to eliminate tobacco smoke, acid rain.... >I would say the EPA should not be influenced by special interests. If >lead out of all gas would improve the environment, then it is a good thing, >regardless of how it effects special interest groups. And as speed racer >points out, tetra-ethyl lead is available in concentrated form for those >who *really* nead it. >The essence of the proposed legislation is to keep lead out of cars that >were intended to be run on unleaded. This indeed may be the essence, but unfortunately it forces an unfair burden on those of us owning cars DESIGNED TO RUN ON LEADED gasoline. Does everybody have to be punished because some idiots enlarge their gas tank filler holes and feed their cars leaded gas? As to the argument about special interest groups, I would like to point out that for the past 10 years and more, there have been complaints about acid rain, but nothing is being done about it. Hundreds upon hundreds of lakes in Canada and the northern U.S. are dying because of acid rain, not to mention the damage done to plants, animals, humans and anything (such as cars) that sits outside in the rain. The Canadian government has been attempting to get the EPA to do something about the problem (since most of the acid rain comes from south of the border and Canada has already enacted legislation reducing sulphur emissions) but the EPA hasn't done ANYTHING. Why? Well, there's a special interest group down in the U.S. called ``Big Business''. These guys have a lot more pull than the owners of cars running leaded gas, and hence, guess who gets hit first? I wouldn't be surprised if Ralph ``K-Mart'' Nader has his hands in this as well. He's known to have a strong dislike for anything that's fun to drive as well as the people who like to drive. \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Don't cry, don't do anything No lies, back in the government No tears, party time is here again President Gas is up for president (c) Psychedelic Furs, 1982
rick@cadtec.UUCP (Rick Auricchio) (03/16/85)
ce available"
hkr4627@acf4.UUCP (Hedley K. J. Rainnie) (03/21/85)
Tom, we rag on each other alot, but here I agree with you. TKAE EVERY DECISION-MAKER IN THE EPA AND HAVE HIM PUBLICLY EXECUTED!! (along with Jimmy Carter, if possible) The EPA figures that not too many people are using leaded gas, so that they can phase it out, right? Now if not too many people are using leaded gas, where's the horrible environmental impact??? Of course, all of us "leadies" drive all day and night in cars that get 2 mpg. Tom, we should bust up this bunch of WHIMPS and THEN! THEN! We'll be free to build the cars the way WE want to and then we'll RACE, OH YES, RACE from NEW YORK to SAN FRANCISCO and SEE ONCE AND FOR ALL, WHOSE CAR RULES! (signed) Speed Racer "I'd like to wipe every endangered species off the f*cking face of the earth" -- Peter Cooke, with Dudley Moore as half of the team DEREK & CLIVE in their (disgusting) album Ad Nauseum. I wholly recommend it.