jayt@ssc-vax.UUCP (Jay T McCanta) (04/30/85)
It seems to me that everyone is missing the point in the seat belt
issue. The issue has nothing to do with legislation rights of the
gov't, nor does it deal with personal rights to risk one's own neck.
The real issue has been convoluted into the seat belt issue. The
real issue is that auto's are not being manufactured to be safe. It
is a lot easier to blame the victim instead of blaming the car
makers. The big Detroit boys claim that to make cars safer, it would
increase the cost too much. The increased cost would lead to fewer
being purchased. Because fewer cars would be sold, there would be
need for fewer workers. The need for fewer workers results in
layoffs which make the politian look bad. Read this backward and you
see why the lawmakers are not making the requirements tougher.
Just how much extra would it cost to make a car safer? About six
years ago, the Dept. of Transportation design a car. It was very
attractive (looked similar to a Camero) and were fuel efficient (use
an Honda engine) and the chances of surviving hitting a brick wall
head-on at 55 mph were above 80%. The chances of surviving a
side-ways crash were less, but still well above what any car being
produced could do. They built the car for around $8000 (1979
dollars). The Dept's position was that if the gov't could built one
car for this amount, then the private sector could mass-produce them
for a lot less and still make a profit.
Seat belt laws are not the answer, although the car makers would like
us to believe it, but safer care are the answer. Let us stop blaming
the victim in this issue.
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I HATE CENTRAL EXPRESSWAY ...
... and I live in Seattle.
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Jay T. McCanta
Boeing Aerospace These ideas are mine and I claim them.
Kent, Wa. My employer may not want to share in claiming.
{uw-beaver|adiron|cesonix|argus|purdue}!ssc-vax!jayt2141smh@rduxb.UUCP (henning) (05/01/85)
> Seat belt laws are not the answer, although the car makers would like > us to believe it, but safer care are the answer. Let us stop blaming > the victim in this issue. **** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA rduxb!2141smh The europeans have developed several of the safest cars in the world. The main design feature that was common to each of these designs was a good, well designed integral shoulder and lap restraint system. This system is used in all aircraft, fighter planes, race cars, and on my stock Volvo. It is called the combination lap and shoulder belt.
mag@whuxlm.UUCP (Gray Michael A) (05/04/85)
> Just how much extra would it cost to make a car safer? About six > years ago, the Dept. of Transportation design a car. It was very > attractive (looked similar to a Camero) and were fuel efficient (use > an Honda engine) and the chances of surviving hitting a brick wall > head-on at 55 mph were above 80%. The chances of surviving a > side-ways crash were less, but still well above what any car being > produced could do. They built the car for around $8000 (1979 > dollars). The Dept's position was that if the gov't could built one > car for this amount, then the private sector could mass-produce them > for a lot less and still make a profit. > > Jay T. McCanta Come ON!! Nobody could build a prototype car for $8000! It costs hundreds of thousands just to prototype a body! This needs support. Probably, what really happened is that they spent millions and millions of dollars building a few prototypes that survived 55 mph head-ons reliably. THEN, they sat down and ESTIMATED that a private manufacturer could do it for $8000. I'd like to see evidence that such an estimate was in any way reliable. Also, in 1979 $8000 would get you a decent car with power-almost everything, stereo, AC, and several other goodies. Did these features exist on the prorotype? Probably not. Were they included in the estimate? I doubt it. Anyway, $8000 then is like about $11,000 in todays dollars. If they could make a car that had that amount of safety and compared well with current cars in features, they'd DO IT! All you need are about 1 million safety fanatics to make a profit. I'd buy it. I have a hunch that such a safe car would cost about $25,000 to build, though. At that price, most people couldn't afford it. Those who could afford it would probably use the money to buy luxury and performance. Mike Gray
bhs@siemens.UUCP (05/06/85)
Very few people can physically survive a crash from 55 mph in a reasonably sized car. If you consider the decelleration that your body would go through, you would see that there are very high G forces. It would be survivable if the hood were very long, but then you would have a full sized roadboat with the related weight. Otherwise, it is possible to build almost any size car so that the passenger cage does not deform at such a crash, simply by welding in enough steel into the frame. This approach however would require mucho weight, which, when coupled with a honda engine would mean excessively slow accelaration. Bernard H. Schwab
mary@bunkerb.UUCP (Mary Shurtleff) (05/06/85)
> Anyway, $8000 then is like > about $11,000 in todays dollars. If they could make a car that > had that amount of safety and compared well with current cars in > features, they'd DO IT! All you need are about 1 million safety > fanatics to make a profit. I'd buy it. They DO make safe cars for ~12K or so--have you looked at many of today's European cars? Volvo and Saab especially are known for their safety features, and you can get a reasonably-equipped model for a little under 12K. BTW, lots of people do buy them--they're not just for safety fanatics. M. Shurtleff
dougs@teklds.UUCP (Doug Schwartz) (05/08/85)
I hate to burst your bubble, but I survived a 65+ off-the-road-into-a- telephone-pole-crash about 15 years ago. I fell asleep at the wheel early in the morning and went off the road. The engine was pushed back against the seat and the car -- a Chevy wagon -- was totalled. The only scratch I got from the whole mess was when I crawled out the driver's side window (it was on its side). Sometime I will have to tell you about my 120+ motorcycle crash -- I tweaked my pinky! Doug (you build it -- I break it) Schwartz
allgair@fritz.UUCP (Ed Allgair) (05/10/85)
In an article Bernard Schwab writes: > >Very few people can physically survive a crash from 55 mph in a reasonably >sized car. > >It would be survivable if the hood were very long, but then you would have a >full sized roadboat with the related weight. How long is the hood on an Indy car? >Otherwise, it is possible to build almost any size car so that the passenger >cage does not deform at such a crash, simply by welding in enough steel >into the frame. > >This approach however would require mucho weight,... How much does an Indy car weigh? I know, I know, 'How much does an Indy car *cost*?' Aha! That's the answer to safe cars! Ed Allgair