fritz@phri.UUCP (Dave Fritzinger) (06/19/85)
After seeing cars at my apartment complex broken into (for the purpose of ripping off car stereos) twice in the last 6 months, I was wondering if any of you out in netland had any (nearly)foolproof methods for keeping unwanted people out of your cars. First of all, I was lucky, and my stereo was not taken, nor was my car broken into. This is probably because I keep my car covered with a locked car cover-the car is, after all, a VW Rabbit. So, do any of you have any idea how this can be prevented? I should add that I already have an alarm and a "Decoy" to hide the stereo. Thanks in advance Dave Fritzinger PHRI New York, NY
jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (06/20/85)
Well, for one thing, I'd recommend an ultrasonic alarm, if you can get one.
So far I have only heard of one. However, my brother's car was broken into
about a year ago in a way that none of the conventional, switch-oriented
alarms would help with -- the burglars broke into the back window, crawled
inside, took out the stereo, and then opened the door and ran off. Thus
the switch-oriented alarms would have done no good at all; they would have
only started ringing when the burglars were ready to escape.
(I realize that there are piezoelectric breakage-sensors you can stick onto
windows, and probably other devices, that would help with this. My real
point here is that many of the alarms, which just use switches on the
doors (or use the inside-light switches) would appear not to be of much
value against a reasonably experienced burglar.)
--
Shyy-Anzr: J. Eric Roskos
UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
US Mail: MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC;
2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642
Bar ol bar / Gur pbyq rgpurq cyngr /
Unf cevagrq gur jnez fgnef bhg.terryl@tekcrl.UUCP () (06/21/85)
>(I realize that there are piezoelectric breakage-sensors you can stick onto >windows, and probably other devices, that would help with this. My real >point here is that many of the alarms, which just use switches on the >doors (or use the inside-light switches) would appear not to be of much >value against a reasonably experienced burglar.) I've looked at car alarms, and all of the alarms I've seen (about 6 different brands/models) had a microphone you mounted somewhere n the car. Even just tapping keys on the windows would set off the alarm. Also, depending on the experience of a burglar, an alarm won't deter him(her??? let's not get sexist!!!) that much. I know of someone who can attest to that fact!!!!
mab@mtx5c.UUCP (Michael Brochstein) (06/21/85)
In NYC the method that is accepted as the most effective one in the war to maintain ownership of ones car stereo is the use of a "Bensi" box. This box allows your stereo to be (easily) removed when you leave the car. The "box" costs $50. or $70. from J&R Music world in NYC according as to whether your stereo has electronic tuning with presets. I and numerous friends of mine have had Bensi boxes for a few years now and have all had excellent results with them. -- Michael Brochstein AT&T Information Systems, Holmdel, NJ ihnp4!mtx5c!mab (201) 834-3482
lynnef@tekgvs.UUCP (Lynne Fitzsimmons) (06/21/85)
Well, speaking as one who has had 2 stereos stolen in as many months, my
solution is to not leave the stereo in the car. I have a Kenwood KRC-626
which has what they call a theft prevention chassis. The stereo can be
removed from the chassis with a special threaded tool (although the entire
stereo and chassis can be removed by your average thief quite easily!).
I just don't leave it in the car when it is parked at work, shopping malls,
and places with large parking lots.
--
Lynne Fitzsimmons
UUCP: {allegra, decvax, ihnp4, orstcs, ucbvax, zehntel, ogcvax, reed,
uw-beaver, hplabs}!tektronix!tekgvs!lynnef
CSnet: lynnef@tek ARPAnet: lynnef.tek@rand-relaydon@umd5.UUCP (06/22/85)
> After seeing cars at my apartment complex broken into (for the purpose of > ripping off car stereos) twice in the last 6 months, I was wondering if > any of you out in netland had any (nearly)foolproof methods for keeping > unwanted people out of your cars. > . > . > . > I should add that I already have an alarm and a "Decoy" to hide the > stereo. > > Dave Fritzinger > New York, NY *** REPLACE THIS Leg WITH YOUR prosthesis *** Have you tried chaining a mad Pit-bull to your car? Maybe a trained Doberman? How about a recording of an attack dog triggered by a motion detector? :-) Is your insurance paid up? Have you notified your landlord of the problem? Has the landlord taken appropriate steps to help protect your property? [Better/more lighting, more police patrols, better site security] Hope you don't become an insurance statistic ... -- --==---==---==-- ___________ _____ ---- _____ \ //---- IDIC ----- _\______//_ ---- ---------- ARPA: don@umd5.ARPA BITNET: don%umd5@umd2 SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain UUCP: {seismo, rlgvax, allegra, brl-bmd, nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don
earlw@pesnta.UUCP (Earl Wallace) (06/22/85)
My experience with car alarms has been that they prevent the owner from getting into the car (the alarm goes off all the time..). When the weather is cold and dry, the "sound detectors" really get sensitive and just the act of inserting the key in the slot will cause the alarm to scream. The crooks don't seem to have any problems getting into alarmed autos and displaying a sticker on the window telling about the alarm system gives the crooks the extra edge they need in determining how to bypass your alarm system. Best alarm I know of is to place a small (50-100 kiloton) thermonuclear device triggered by disconnecting the car antenna, a set of Saturn V rocket engines and a sticker reading: "If you decide to steal my car or any of its contents, please don't take my expensive and hard to replace $9,000 stereo unit (located just to the right of that small thermonuclear device)" The crook will try to steal your stereo; when the antenna is disconnected, the Saturn V rockets will ignite thrusting the car and its passenger to the Moon where the nuclear explosion will occur. This may not save your Car, but it does get rid of one crook (or more). Of course, you may be the one that gets burned in the end :-)
ark@alice.UUCP (Andrew Koenig) (06/22/85)
> A friend of mine uses this anti-theft technique: > Take several double-edged razor blades and put a 90 degree bend > in each. Then screw one "leg" of each blade to the back of your > stereo. The more razor blades you use, the better. > When the burglar tries to pull your stereo forward by > grabbing the back....... it causes pain. > This technique got tested when his car was parked at an airport. > His stereo was saved, but he had to clean blood out of his carpet. Don't even think about it. I have heard several instances where people have tried to protect their possessions by booby- trapping them, have wounded a would-be thief, and have been successfully prosecuted for damages to the intruder.
pz@emacs.uucp (Paul Czarnecki) (06/24/85)
I have a box called an Audio-Safe ($39.95 @ local car stereo shop) which
has prevented one theft, we think, already. The Audio-Safe is a thick
steel plate which goes behind the dash and a thick steel cover which
locks onto it from the outside. The theory is that a whole lot of
damage must be done to get it out (and damage takes time) and when it is
out it is hard to open.
I had looked into a bensi box but decided against it. It is great when
I am at work (my wife actually, I don't have a car (sniff sniff)), but
what do we do with the stereo when we go someplace else (shopping,
dinner, movie...)? It seems awfully inconvenient to lug it around.
there are some points against it. I worry a bit about the quality of
the lock, it looks sort of cheap to me. But I guess the pro will get it
no matter how you protect it. Also, the steel cover is always banging
around on the floor and being a pest.
--
== I was just exhausted from the act of being polite.
Paul Czarnecki
Uniworks decvax!{wanginst!infinet, cca}!emacs!pz (1)
20 William Street emacs!pz@cca-unix
Wellesley, MA 02181 (617) 235-2600rob@asgb.UUCP (Rob Greenbank) (06/24/85)
I have a friend who has had three radios stolen out of his VW Jetta in the last 6-8 months. The last time the dashboard was damaged to the point it had to be replaced, which cost his insurance company somewhere around $900.00. While I agree that an alarm system wont deter the pros, I also doubt that a pro would cause that kind of damage -- if you know what your doing, its faster to just remove the radio than to RIP it out. All three times burglars entered the vehicle by breaking a window -- something else that a pro isn't as likely to do, since it makes a lot of noise. If a burglar alarm will deter most of the amateurs, that not only decreases the odds of a rip-off, but probably lessens the chances of lots of damage to the vehicle. The folks I've known with alarm systems have not been as concerned about protecting the radio as some of the stuff they carry. After all, a really good alarm system is pretty costly, and no insurance company I've ever heard of will cover that cost (they do replace the radios :-)). Rob Greenbank Burroughs, Boulder Colorado (decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!bmcg!asgb!rob) (bmcg!asgb!rob@SDCSVAX.ARPA)
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (06/24/85)
> > In NYC the method that is accepted as the most effective one in the > war to maintain ownership of ones car stereo is the use of a "Bensi" box. > This box allows your stereo to be (easily) removed when you leave the car. > The "box" costs $50. or $70. from J&R Music world in NYC according as to > whether your stereo has electronic tuning with presets. I and numerous > friends of mine have had Bensi boxes for a few years now and have all had > excellent results with them. > Unfortunately this means that you MUST take the radio with you for two reasons: 1. It makes the easier to steal. 2. Most insurance companies won't pay off on equipment installed in this fashion. -Ron
JCA@psuvm.BITNET (06/25/85)
After having two different cars broken into I believe that the best
protection is Insurance.
Jeff Almoney
The Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (06/25/85)
> In NYC the method that is accepted as the most effective one in the > war to maintain ownership of ones car stereo is the use of a "Bensi" box. > This box allows your stereo to be (easily) removed when you leave the car. Years back my brother developed his own quick-removal system. The result: the very first time he forgot to remove the radio and store it away, it was ripped off. Also, he had to replace *numerous* broken windows caused by thieves who thought the radio was still there. Even leaving the doors unlocked didn't help -- thieves aren't smart enough to try the doors. He finally had to just leave the windows down when weather permitted. Even then, one time a thief broke out a rear window (non-openable) to "break in". As someone else has already noted, your insurance will probably not cover any theft of a radio which isn't "permanently installed". -- Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{ihnp4,seismo,decvax}!noao!terak!doug ^^^^^--- soon to be CalComp
levine@ihlpm.UUCP (levine) (06/25/85)
> (I realize that there are piezoelectric breakage-sensors you can stick onto > windows, and probably other devices, that would help with this. My real > point here is that many of the alarms, which just use switches on the > doors (or use the inside-light switches) would appear not to be of much > value against a reasonably experienced burglar.) > -- > Shyy-Anzr: J. Eric Roskos *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR CAR STEREO *** I once saw this cheap plastic insert that you plugged into your car tape player that looked like a cheap AM/FM radio. It came with a stereo that was priced at approx. $800. I don't know if they make a generic one to fit any type of car stereo (or adaptable to any type of car stereo). -Ben Levine
liang@cvl.UUCP (Eli Liang) (06/25/85)
> > A friend of mine uses this anti-theft technique: > > > Take several double-edged razor blades and put a 90 degree bend > > in each. Then screw one "leg" of each blade to the back of your > > stereo. The more razor blades you use, the better. > > > When the burglar tries to pull your stereo forward by > > grabbing the back....... it causes pain. > > > This technique got tested when his car was parked at an airport. > > His stereo was saved, but he had to clean blood out of his carpet. > > Don't even think about it. I have heard several instances > where people have tried to protect their possessions by booby- > trapping them, have wounded a would-be thief, and have been > successfully prosecuted for damages to the intruder. What sort of grounds would the 'injured party' use in the law suit? Sounds to me like he's at more fault then you. Considering that there isn't a law that says you aren't permitted to do anything you want to something you own. Maybe you like having razor blades attached to the back of things... Speaking of which, is it legal to own razor blades? After all, someone could try to steal them and get hurt..... -eli -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eli Liang --- University of Maryland Computer Vision Lab, (301) 454-4526 ARPA: liang@cvl, liang@lemuria, eli@mit-mc, eli@mit-prep CSNET: liang@cvl UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!cvl!liang
ebh@mtx5a.UUCP (Ed Horch) (06/26/85)
>> Take several double-edged razor blades and put a 90 degree bend >> in each. Then screw one "leg" of each blade to the back of your >> stereo. The more razor blades you use, the better. >Don't even think about it. I have heard several instances >where people have tried to protect their possessions by booby- >trapping them, have wounded a would-be thief, and have been >successfully prosecuted for damages to the intruder. He's right. The legality that applies here is the idea of "endangering life to protect property". Personally, I believe that a person should lose certain lawful protections, such as that one, as soon as s/he engages in a criminal act. In some cases this is true, but protecting your car stereo isn't one of them. :-( -Ed Horch {ihnp4,akgua,ariel}!mtx5b!ebh
man@bocar.UUCP (M Nevar) (06/26/85)
<Best alarm I know of is to place a small (50-100 kiloton) thermonuclear <device triggered by disconnecting the car antenna, a set of Saturn V <rocket engines and a sticker reading: < < "If you decide to steal my car or any of its contents, please < don't take my expensive and hard to replace $9,000 stereo < unit (located just to the right of that small thermonuclear < device)" < <The crook will try to steal your stereo; when the antenna is disconnected, <the Saturn V rockets will ignite thrusting the car and its passenger to <the Moon where the nuclear explosion will occur. This may not save your <Car, but it does get rid of one crook (or more). I remember in one of the latest Bond movies (the one before Octopussy), Bond had a Lotus with a sticker that read: "WARNING: This car is protected by an anti-theft device." Some bad guy was the car, read the sticker, smiled the way most bad guys do and smashed the drivers window with the butt of a rifle. The Lotus EXPLODED !! I have searched hiah and low, but I have been unable to locate the company that manufactures or installs such a beast :-) Mark Nevar
jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (06/26/85)
> All three times burglars entered the vehicle by breaking a window -- > something else that a pro isn't as likely to do, since it makes a lot of > noise. While I agree with a lot of what was said in this article, the above I don't believe is accurate. The car I know of that was burglarized (very profes- sionally, according to the criteria in the article; they unscrewed it carefully, and even left unnecessary screws sitting on the dashboard) was broken into through a window, eventhough it was in the parking lot of a large apartment complex. The victim asked the police why wouldn't anyone have heard them, and the police claimed "you can break a window on a car without making much noise at all." -- Shyy-Anzr: J. Eric Roskos UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer US Mail: MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC; 2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642 "Erny vfgf qba'g hfr Xbqnpuebzr."
scarter@topaz.ARPA (Stephen Carter) (06/27/85)
Having a 280ZX, I have always thought "HA! Let's see if they can pull this stereo out!" For those who don't know, the Z has a stereo system that is imbedded across half the dashboard. I haven't tried to remove it, but if it is quicker than I think it is, would anybody try to rip it off? (you would have to have another Z or a very large hole in your chevy dash.... Has anyone heard of these being stolen?? (yes, I know that there is a very good chance of the whole call being gone first...) SCarter
fritz@phri.UUCP (Dave Fritzinger) (06/27/85)
> > I once saw this cheap plastic insert that you plugged into your car tape > player that looked like a cheap AM/FM radio. It came with a stereo that > was priced at approx. $800. I don't know if they make a generic one to > fit any type of car stereo (or adaptable to any type of car stereo). > > -Ben Levine They do-it's called a "decoy" and it costs about $5.00. I've been using one for the last year or so, and it apparently works since my car hasn't been broken into since I bought it, even though I was parking in NYC for a while! Dave Fritzinger PHRI NYC allegra!phri!fritz
dsn@tove.UUCP (Dana S. Nau) (06/27/85)
In article <326@ihlpm.UUCP> levine@ihlpm.UUCP (levine) writes: >> (I realize that there are piezoelectric breakage-sensors you can stick onto >> windows, and probably other devices, that would help with this. My real >> point here is that many of the alarms, which just use switches on the >> doors (or use the inside-light switches) would appear not to be of much >> value against a reasonably experienced burglar.) >> -- >> Shyy-Anzr: J. Eric Roskos > >*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR CAR STEREO *** > >I once saw this cheap plastic insert that you plugged into your car tape >player that looked like a cheap AM/FM radio. It came with a stereo that >was priced at approx. $800. I don't know if they make a generic one to >fit any type of car stereo (or adaptable to any type of car stereo). > >-Ben Levine Sony's new high-end car stereo line includes black plastic covers (so that if you put the cover over the stereo, it looks like nothing is there). -- Dana S. Nau, Computer Science Dept., U. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 ARPA: dsn@maryland CSNet: dsn@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!dsn Phone: (301) 454-7932
buck@shell.UUCP (Lester Buck) (06/28/85)
While I haven't tried this (never have had a car stereo anyone
would want to steal :-) ), I read about the following technique.
Mount a thick steel strap from the back of the stereo to a heavy
piece of metal under the dash at the back. File the heads of the
nuts or bolts down, or fill the screw slot with solder, or
otherwise make it very time consuming (for *anyone*) to get the
stereo out. I was under the impression professional installers
will do this if requested (maybe extra charge).
Since you will rarely be removing your stereo for any reason
this is very cheap insurance. (Do get one that doesn't immediately
break...)
This won't solve the dash damage if they get irritated
(or are just too dumb to notice it won't come out!).
A. Lester Buck @ Shell Development Co.
{ihnp4, pur-ee, ut-sally}!shell!buckchris@scgvaxd.UUCP (Chris Yoder) (06/28/85)
[bug poison]
First of all, I hate car alarms. I would never have one in my car for the
simple reason that I find them to be more of a pain and a worry than
anything else. (Note that I happen to own this year's model of last year's
most stolen car...) Car alarms are forever going off in parking lots and no
one pays any attention what-so-ever to them. In fact, I have heard of cases
where people have *helped* other people to shut the (*&^$%#&^% things off.
Now that I have made this blanket statement, I will say that I do find
certain tricks to be very useful (at least on the surface) at keeping
thieves from running off with my car. I must say that those red (sometimes
quickly blinking) lights on car alarms are great! Just put one of those
lights in your car in a nice obvious place. This causes the potential thief
to think about the fact that you have a non-standard alarm system, with the
(hopeful) result that they will stay away since there is no (obvious) cut
and dried manner to defeat it. A friend of mine has an amp on his stereo
that has a red pilot light that glows when it's on. When he is in a
neighborhood that isn't so great he just leaves that on.
The other favorite trick to hide a fuel cut-off switch about that
remains closed if no power is applied to it. You hide a switch somewhere
in the car (find a *really* obscure place for it!). If the thief does break
in and run off with the car, he'll get about two blocks and the car will
die. Hopefully he will then decide to part company with the car and leave
you to find it... The obvious problem here is what happens when the cut-off
switch breaks. I guess that I'd rather have this problem than no car.
As for saving car stereos... just don't buy an expensive stereo. In my
case this is even more critical as I have a convertible. If a thief wants
your stereo, he'll get it (actually, same with the car). I have heard of
people who have stripped the mounting screws on the stereo to make taking
the stereo out impossible, but this makes upgrading (or simply replacing)
your stereo very hard. I've not had any problems with units costing ~$200,
but I have had problems with flashy looking speakers (turns out I was going
to replace them anyway because they were junk...). I figure that if I can't
afford to replace it w/o going into major economic hardship I can't afford
to have the stereo in my car (just wish that I could have the same attitude
about my car, but that's what insurance is for.)
Oh well, I've rambled on enough, but remember in protecting anything,
the more thought that you put into being tricky, and the more false trails
that you throw at a potential car (stereo) thief, the more likely he is to
give up and go find an easier car (stereo) to steal. Never rely totally on
an protection system that someone else thinks up.
--
-- Chris Yoder
UUCP --- {allegra|ihnp4}!scgvaxd!engvax!chris
<Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get you...>
{ The opinions here are representative of Huge Aircrash, not me and
*especially* not of my poor little keyboard. 8-)=
}gritz@homxa.UUCP (R.SHARPLES) (06/28/85)
I thought of something that may be a possibility if you have a fancy car stereo
with big power amps and speakers:
set up a system where if the burgler trips the alarm a tone generator
is activated and produces a VERY harsh tone that is then amplified to
incredible volume on the stereo system inside the car. The idea is not
to deafen but rather to attract attention and make it so unpleasent
inside the car that the thief has to leave. The system would stop
after 2 minutes and rearm itself. of course you need all the usual
protection against having the battery cables cut, etc..
My one concern is that if this worked and drove the burgler out of the car,
would he/she/it be mad enough to start pelting your car with bricks, or kicking
it or something? Or would they just run off? I suppose it depends on the
neighborhood. Another idea is to give the burgler a mild shock with a tesla
coil hooked to the frame or a wire around the radio, but there you have the
same "revenge" problem.
RPS
ATT-BL
homxa!gritz
>>>>>>>>my ideas are mine and no-one elses<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<mhs@enmasse.UUCP (Mike Schloss) (06/28/85)
. . ... Lots about using hidden razor blades to protect your stereo. > What sort of grounds would the 'injured party' use in the law suit? > Sounds to me like he's at more fault then you. Considering that there > isn't a law that says you aren't permitted to do anything you want to > something you own. Maybe you like having razor blades attached to the back > of things... Speaking of which, is it legal to own razor blades? After > all, someone could try to steal them and get hurt..... > Sorry but if place the razor blades there deliberatly, you will lose in court. Even if there was some reasonable explanation for having them you still would lose. There probably would be no crimnal proceedings, no jury would convict you, but there certainly would be a civil suit. I seem to remember a case where a town was sued when some kids broke into a swimming pool protected by a barbed wire fence and drowned. The courts ruled that inadequit measures had been taken to protect the public (barbed wire and KEEP OUT signs???). This wasn't even deliberate, the town just hadn't gotten around to draining the pool yet. Think of what your chances would be with razor blades. By the way, I've thought of similar things myself. When I was in college someone ripped off the battery from my car. Since this person knew I had to get a new one and would probably be back, I figured I would do something with another old battery, some battery acid, and a couple of M-80s. Some friends told me I could get my self in deep shit doing this so I purchased a hood lock instead. Mike Schloss --- What should be and what is are two different things.
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (06/28/85)
> I once saw this cheap plastic insert that you plugged into your car tape > player that looked like a cheap AM/FM radio. It came with a stereo that > was priced at approx. $800. I don't know if they make a generic one to > fit any type of car stereo (or adaptable to any type of car stereo). > Wouldn't help in Baltimore. They broke in to my roommates car to steal the AM-only radio that he had. -Ron
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (06/28/85)
> large apartment complex. The victim asked the police why wouldn't anyone > have heard them, and the police claimed "you can break a window on a car > without making much noise at all." > -- If you want to be neat about it, you can stick an adhesive sheet to the outside of the window prior to breaking it to catch the fragments. You just hit a lower corner of the window with a sprint-loaded center punch or someother pointy object and the window is gone. Safety glass is wonderful. -Ron
mikey@trsvax (06/29/85)
After talking with a few people years ago when I had to regularly commute into NYC and I lived on Long Island, I came up with a few tips for keeping what is yours, YOURS! 1. Don't use a standard alarm system. This came from a house protection company. If a thief knows what systems you have, what is to prevent him from buying a manual and learning how it works, or even in one case in my old home town, contracting with the security company to find out how they operate? 2. Don't entice the amatuers, i.e. don't leave valuable things in view. It may be impressive to leave $600 worth of speakers on the rear deck, but it's better to mount them in and put a whole sheet of acoutsic cloth over the entire deck. I did that on my '68 Mustang. I removed the rear deck, installed my speaker systems in the metal work, and cut the appropriate holes in the pressboard. I then "wrapped" the board with grill cloth that matched my interior and put elastic on the bottom to keep it stretched tight. When I was done, you couldn't tell there were speakers in the rear deck. I forgot to put in a metal grillwork under the cloth, so I couldn't set anything on the deck until I ripped it out and did it over. 3. After thinking it over, I put in a dual alarm system. I used the Radio Shack remote pager. I hooked the microphones to the frame and also put a line from the interior light to the trigger. In addition, I bought a little module they used to sell that gave you 15 seconds to to enter the car and turn on the ignition key. Since the pager triggered immediately, I fed its trigger out to the timer alarm. The timer alarm was hooked to a "whooper" under the hood. I never had a chance to use the alarm, so I can't really give an account of its performance. Maybe the false alarms I had in my neighborhood until I got the microphone level adjusted warned all the "would-be"s away. When I moved to Texas in late 1980, I had my Honda CBX tampered with 5 times in four weeks. Needless to say, I was "PISSED". One time they even punched out the ignition key and when that just jammed up the head, they tried prying off the lock tab. I got another pager and started to mount it under the seat but I never finished the job. Once I was out there jacking with an alarm though, my bike never got tampered with again. I think a local was doing it and now he thought the bike was dangerous, or at least I was. I thought about the razor blade trick, but I discounted it not for fear of what may happen to a burglar, but to me. I can just see me kicking my foot under the dash or reaching for something and getting sliced. The laws that everybody tries to mention about dangerous devices getting the owner in trouble I don't think apply here. In every case that I've heard about, the only way the owner gets in trouble is if there is some possibilty of an innocent person being injured. The case that specifically comes to mind is the guy who rigged a shotgun at the door of his house. What if it went off when a girl scout knocked on the door to sell cookies. What if it went off on the mailman. Even a far out case, what if it went off if an accident victim busted into the house in an emergency? These arguments don't apply to a clear case of theft. I'm not saying that it's right, but you'd better have some different arguments that apply. Personally, I think that anyone who steps outside of society gives up his rights to the protection of society while he's out there. mikey at trsvax
mike@enmasse.UUCP (Mike Schloss) (06/30/85)
> > > I once saw this cheap plastic insert that you plugged into your car tape > > player that looked like a cheap AM/FM radio. It came with a stereo that > > was priced at approx. $800. I don't know if they make a generic one to > > fit any type of car stereo (or adaptable to any type of car stereo). > > > Wouldn't help in Baltimore. They broke in to my roommates car to steal > the AM-only radio that he had. > > -Ron Seems like an awful lot of work for a doorstop. Mike Schloss
mzal@pegasus.UUCP (Mike Zaleski) (06/30/85)
What we really need are laws and judges that protect us from criminals, or at least let us protect ourselves (i.e. razor blades keeping one's stereo company), instead of politicians, laws, and courts that protect us from ourselves with seatbelt laws, etc. Fat chance, though, as the system is firmly entrenched in protecting itself. -- "The Model Citizen" Mike^Z Zaleski@Rutgers [ allegra! , ihnp4! ] pegasus!mzal
quint@topaz.ARPA (Amqueue) (07/01/85)
In article <124@shell.UUCP> buck@shell.UUCP (Lester Buck) writes: >Mount a thick steel strap from the back of the stereo to a heavy >piece of metal under the dash at the back. File the heads of the >nuts or bolts down, or fill the screw slot with solder, or >otherwise make it very time consuming (for *anyone*) to get the >stereo out. I was under the impression professional installers >will do this if requested (maybe extra charge). >A. Lester Buck @ Shell Development Co. dont bet on it. My roommate had her stereo ripped off once... when she finally put another in, she had it done with the strap method, in addition to having and alarm installed. Well, the activation button for the alarm broke, they didnt go through that part of the car anyway, and she *still* lost the radio..... they just took bolt cutters (or something equally monstrous and destructive) and Cut The Strap. very discouraging. /amqueue
jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (07/01/85)
(The referenced article describes a James-Bond explosive alarm system.)
Actually, it appears you have to use some caution in how much your alarm
can do. Recently here in Orlando, someone had an alarm installed (by a
company in Miami) which discharged tear gas if a burglar broke in. She
took the car to a car dealer for repairs, and somehow the dealer set off
the alarm. The dealer then sued the owner of the car, and the judge found
the owner of the car to have made "excessive use of force" in protecting
her motor vehicle.
Disclaimer: This came from an article in the Orlando Sentinel. Recently
we've seen the dangers of believing articles from newspapers... so you will
have to take it with a grain of salt, I guess.
--
Shyy-Anzr: J. Eric Roskos
UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer
US Mail: MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC;
2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (07/01/85)
In article <11356@brl-tgr.ARPA> ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) writes: > You >just hit a lower corner of the window with a sprint-loaded center punch >or someother pointy object and the window is gone. Safety glass is wonderful. Just a minor quibble: Most American car manufacturers stopped using safety glass in everything but windshields years ago. The stuff in side and rear windows these days is _tempered_ glass, which is hard to break but crazes and shatters when it's broken. The safety glass still used in windshields is a three layer laminate that's intended to be shatteproof (and succeeds pretty well).
itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) (07/02/85)
In article <574@cvl.UUCP> liang@cvl.UUCP (Eli Liang) writes: >> > A friend of mine uses this anti-theft technique: >> >> > Take several double-edged razor blades and put a 90 degree bend >> > in each. Then screw one "leg" of each blade to the back of your >> > stereo. The more razor blades you use, the better. >> >> Don't even think about it. I have heard several instances >> where people have tried to protect their possessions by booby- >> trapping them, have wounded a would-be thief, and have been >> successfully prosecuted for damages to the intruder. > >What sort of grounds would the 'injured party' use in the law suit? >Sounds to me like he's at more fault then you. It's not a matter of fault! What about the stereo repair man? The guy who's fixing your electrical system? A KID? The guy is in there, you deliberately, maliciously, placed some dangerous hazardous TRAP in your car, and the guy lost his fingers. Now, how are you gonna defend that? This is the same argument that applies to terrorists, burglars, and other nasties. It is never justified to set a trap for POTENTIAL wrongdoers. How about the guy that saw that your lights were on and accidentally slid his hand back there? Wasn't there a case of somebody who hooked a crossbow to his doorknob in case someone broke in? How would you feel if you wandered into a friends house, found the door open, and became a soprano (or female equivalent)? Don't confuse intent with action. -- *** * Steven List @ Benetics Corporation, Mt. View, CA * Just part of the stock at "Uncle Bene's Farm" * {cdp,greipa,idi,oliveb,sun,tolerant}!bene!luke!steven ***
andrew@grkermi.UUCP (Andrew W. Rogers) (07/02/85)
In article <985@homxa.UUCP> gritz@homxa.UUCP (R.SHARPLES) writes: >I thought of something that may be a possibility if you have a fancy car >stereo with big power amps and speakers: > . > . > . >My one concern is that if this worked and drove the burglAr out of the car, >would he/she/it be mad enough to start pelting your car with bricks, or kicking >it or something? Or would they just run off? I was wondering about this myself... do you really WANT to piss off a burglar? It seems to me that he/she/it might not only vandalize your car out of revenge, but also trace your license plate number, come out to your home, and settle the score personally. Any burglars out there want to comment? Andrew W. Rogers
ccrms@ucdavis.UUCP (ccrms) (07/02/85)
> . > . > ... Lots about using hidden razor blades to protect your stereo. > > > What sort of grounds would the 'injured party' use in the law suit? > I seem to remember a burglar suing a women whose house he was trying to rob when the skylight he was climbing through broke and sent him tumbling to the floor. He broke his back or something, and they settled on some enormous sum to be paid yearly for the rest of his life. Life just doesn't seem fair, sometimes... Michael Shulman UCD Computer Center ...ucbvax!ucdavis!harpo!ccrms
slerner@sesame.UUCP (Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner) (07/02/85)
> >My one concern is that if this worked and drove the burglAr out of the car, > >would he/she/it be mad enough to start pelting your car with bricks, or kicking > >it or something? Or would they just run off? > > I was wondering about this myself... do you really WANT to piss off a burglar? > It seems to me that he/she/it might not only vandalize your car out of revenge, > but also trace your license plate number, come out to your home, and settle the > score personally. Any burglars out there want to comment? > > Andrew W. Rogers Having lived in NYC before coming to the Boston area, I can tell many true horror stories of criminals who got "pissed off" for one reason or another finding the home of the original victim and burning it down &/or killing someone there. Unless you are going to use a system that will 100% of the time KILL a burgler, don't bother just pissing him off :-) Of couse, make sure you never accidentally trigger it yourself... -- Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner {genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner {cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner slerner%sesame@harvard.ARPA
mhg@wjh12.UUCP (Goldstein) (07/03/85)
> While I haven't tried this (never have had a car stereo anyone > would want to steal :-) ), I read about the following technique. > > Mount a thick steel strap from the back of the stereo to a heavy > piece of metal under the dash at the back. File the heads of the > nuts or bolts down, or fill the screw slot with solder, or > otherwise make it very time consuming (for *anyone*) to get the > stereo out. I was under the impression professional installers > will do this if requested (maybe extra charge). > Since you will rarely be removing your stereo for any reason > this is very cheap insurance. (Do get one that doesn't immediately > break...) > > This won't solve the dash damage if they get irritated > (or are just too dumb to notice it won't come out!). > > A. Lester Buck @ Shell Development Co. > {ihnp4, pur-ee, ut-sally}!shell!buck Well, even though I have quite a nice car stereo, I have removed it quite a number of times: to replace speaker wires, and to clean and adjust the tape transport. I use the decoy method. Plus my stereo is mounted sideways!! (the car is a chevy Citation) so noone expects there to be adecent radio anyway. Mike Goldstein.
Finney@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ken Finney) (07/03/85)
Laws dealing with things like the razor blade trick differ from state to state and town to town, so there are a lot of things to be considered. However, one rule that has a lot of legal precedence is that you cannot use more force to protect yourself than is being used against you. If a person walks into your house, grabs your tv and walks out, and you shoot him, you are quilty. He didn't use deadly force against you, but you did against him. Also, if you wake up at night to find a burglar in your house and shoot him (her), you can be found quilty unless you can prove that the burglar threatened to use deadly force against you first. I'm not saying that these rulings are correct, but that's the way that a lot of them go. It's probably time to end this discussion anyway, or at least move it to net.legal. "First thing we do is kill all the lawyers! (Paraphrased from Richard III) -Ken Finney-
weltyrp@rpics.UUCP (Richard Welty) (07/05/85)
> > What sort of grounds would the 'injured party' use in the law suit? > > Sounds to me like he's at more fault then you. Considering that there > > isn't a law that says you aren't permitted to do anything you want to > > something you own. Maybe you like having razor blades attached to the back > > of things... Speaking of which, is it legal to own razor blades? After > > all, someone could try to steal them and get hurt..... > > > > Sorry but if place the razor blades there deliberatly, you will lose in court. > Even if there was some reasonable explanation for having them you still would > lose. There probably would be no crimnal proceedings, no jury would convict > you, but there certainly would be a civil suit. I seem to remember a case > where a town was sued when some kids broke into a swimming pool protected > by a barbed wire fence and drowned. The courts ruled that inadequit measures > had been taken to protect the public (barbed wire and KEEP OUT signs???). > This wasn't even deliberate, the town just hadn't gotten around to draining > the pool yet. Think of what your chances would be with razor blades. > > By the way, I've thought of similar things myself. When I was in college > someone ripped off the battery from my car. Since this person knew I had > to get a new one and would probably be back, I figured I would do something > with another old battery, some battery acid, and a couple of M-80s. Some > friends told me I could get my self in deep shit doing this so I purchased > a hood lock instead. > I recall a case from a few years back where a thief broke into a house and triggered a shotgun rigged as a booby trap. He filed a civil suit and won a fairly large award. -- Rich Welty
mikec@petsd.UUCP (Mike Condict) (07/07/85)
My God, I am aghast at these stories of the same car repeatedly burglarized in illicit pursuit of stereos! I parked my '79 Honda two nights in a row in the deep East Village (Alphabet City, drug capital of New York) with the doors unlocked and nobody even stole the cigarette lighter. What am I doing wrong? But seriously, unless you live in one of these places, do you really believe that your car was broken into 4 or 5 times by coincidence, when that's gotta be way above the average crime rate for your area? Don't you realize that the same guy is coming back -- he probably thinks of it as a sport, or an "arms race". He doesn't want to show any window of vulnerability by failing to defeat your next atempt at theft-proofness. I can't advocate any particular counter-insurgency strategy for others, but let me say that in cases like these my thoughts would turn to a few of my favorite movie fantasies. First of all, you know the guy is coming back, so you have the advantage, right? You have all the time and privacy you need to prepare, while he's got to hit and run. The wimpiest thing that I would do is simply install an alarm that sends by radio to a remote unit, which is beside my bed. I would make sure that there is no evidence in the car of an alarm going off. Then I'd program my phone dialer to call the police at the touch of a button and when the alarm goes off, presto. Of course you could also store various implements of destruction beside your bed as well, but that would probably be illegal, so you wouldn't even think of doing that right? (Most effective implement in unskilled or expert hands at medium to close range is the weapon preferred by U.S. soldiers in Viet Nam: an ordinary 12-gauge shotgun, preferably pump action. Don't saw off the barrel unless you want to conceal it or you need it for really close work -- you lose too much stopping power and accuracy at medium ranges. It is legal to buy a shotgun without a permit in all 50 states, I believe.) MC "You want five dollars? I've got five dollars for each of you."
sewilco@mecc.UUCP (Scot E. Wilcoxon) (07/08/85)
> . > . > ... Lots about using hidden razor blades to protect your stereo. > > > What sort of grounds would the 'injured party' use in the law suit? I'm not a lawyer (my lawyer likes me to say that), but several cases which I've read about boobytraps all agreed on one thing: When you're trying to protect property, you cannot try to harm a person. The concept of self-defense only gives you broad powers in protecting your body, not protecting your property. Scot E. Wilcoxon Minn. Ed. Comp. Corp. circadia!mecc!sewilco 45N03',93W15' (612)481-3507 {ihnp4,mgnetp,uwvax}!dicomed!mecc!sewilco
meier@srcsip.UUCP (C Michael Meier) (07/09/85)
The best way to deter stereo theft is to hide the stereo. In my car, the ash tray and lighter have a cover plate over them. I simply removed the ash tray, and installed the radio. When I need access to the radio, it involves flipping up a cover, which stays up while driving, and I just close it when I park. If someone can't see a stereo, they will probably not feel like breaking in to find it, even if they can see speakers. Also, since my car is a '72, the dash is mostly metal, and it was tough to get in, probably almost as hard to rip out. (:-)) -cmm