mason@tmsoft.uucp (Dave Mason) (05/04/89)
(Deadline's been extended, see the bottom of this epistle for more.) Lyndon seems to have misinterpreted my intentions. In article <544@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@atha.uucp (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: >In article <1989Apr24.161951.16349@tmsoft.uucp>, I (Dave Mason) wrote: >> I would personally like to encourage people from outside the Toronto >>area to run for Director, as I feel that is the best way to make this >>a truly Canadian organization. I would REALLY like to see a Director >>from each of Quebec and the West elected this time, with further >>representation in subsequent elections. > >Hmm, last time I looked there were 10 provinces and two territories. >*I* would personally like to see the board consist of 12 people, >with one person elected per province/territory. I'd like that, or something very much like it, too. Being realistic, however, getting 2 board members from outside Ontario would be a step in the right direction, and MIGHT be possible in THIS election. It would SIGNIFICANTLY improve the chances of our forming a truly national organization (with possibly much reorganisation). (Then at least /usr/group/cdn wouldn't be just "those slimey *Toronto* buzzards". :-) :-) > This is /usr/group/*cdn* after all ... (isn't it?) Sometimes I have my doubts, but *I*'d sure like it to be. >> I would also like to >>encourage women to run for the Board (one of our Founding Directors >>was a woman, but no female board members in the last 1.5 years). I >>feel we need a more balanced, even keeled board in many different >>ways, and both of these kinds of representation will help. > >Gasp! What a novel concept! But then again, since were letting those >westerners in ... Sigh. If you know how to encourage people who "aren't doing something that you and they agree would be desirable" to do it, without sounding at least a little bit patronizing, you're a better person than I. (Of which I have no doubts, after all YOU live somewhere semi-reasonable; while I'm stuck in Toronto. (NOT :-), unfortunately.)) And more importantly we could certainly use you and your talents on the board of /usr/group/cdn, so we can make it !!CDN!! And now the good news (for Lyndon and others): Because of the rather hurried notice, along with other reasons, we have decided to have the Annual General Meeting a month later than previously planned (if you want to argue THAT, please do it by mail), so you still have time to become a member and send us a BIO to run for the board. The record date for people to become general members (so they can vote) will be May 19, so you can join during the Unix 89 show if you give this (I *won't* say OUR) fair city a visit. Or, of course, you can become a member via mail to 241 Gamma St., Etobicoke, Ontario, M8W 4G7. Send mail to bonnie@ontmoh for more information. We currently have 6 candidates for the 5 positions open, and again I'd like to encourage others (particularly from outside Ontario) to help put the CDN into /usr/group/cdn. The deadline for bio's in my (or Bonnie's) hands is May 24, when bio's and ballots will be mailed to members. Thanks for your reading time. ../Dave
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (05/04/89)
In article <1989May4.042805.24120@tmsoft.uucp> mason@tmsoft.UUCP (Dave Mason) writes: >(Deadline's been extended, see the bottom of this epistle for more.) > >Lyndon seems to have misinterpreted my intentions. > >In article <544@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@atha.uucp (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: >I'd like that, or something very much like it, too. Being realistic, >however, getting 2 board members from outside Ontario would be a step >in the right direction, and MIGHT be possible in THIS election. It >would SIGNIFICANTLY improve the chances of our forming a truly >national organization (with possibly much reorganisation). (Then at >least /usr/group/cdn wouldn't be just "those slimey *Toronto* >buzzards". :-) :-) I agree it would be nice, however /usr/group/cdn has been approached in the past on the issue of regional representation with no results forthcoming. It has been suggested many times that /usr/group/cdn become an umbrella organization encompasing all the regional /usr/group organizations. A proposal was put out by the Toronto group, but it seemed that it was just a vehicle to siphon funds from the regionals to the exclusive benefit of the Toronto group. If there is interest I could dig out and post the minutes of the Edmonton groups meeting where this was discussed. >And more importantly we could certainly use you and your talents on >the board of /usr/group/cdn, so we can make it !!CDN!! Ha! I just wrapped up a three year stint on the board in Edmonton. I plan on "retiring" for at least a year. Maybe now I'll have time to start looking at this whole issue again :-) -- Lyndon Nerenberg Computing Services Athabasca University {alberta,attvcr,ncc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@nexus.ca
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (05/04/89)
In article <560@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> I wrote: >In article <1989May4.042805.24120@tmsoft.uucp> mason@tmsoft.UUCP (Dave Mason) writes: [...] >>In article <544@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@atha.uucp (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: >>I'd like that, or something very much like it, too. Being realistic, I did not! See what happens when I come to work at 0900 two days in a row? The quoted comments of course belong to Dave. -- Lyndon Nerenberg Computing Services Athabasca University {alberta,attvcr,ncc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@nexus.ca
mason@tmsoft.uucp (Dave Mason) (05/05/89)
In article <560@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@nexus.ca writes: >I agree it would be nice, however /usr/group/cdn has been approached >in the past on the issue of regional representation with no results >forthcoming. It has been suggested many times that /usr/group/cdn >become an umbrella organization encompasing all the regional /usr/group >organizations. A proposal was put out by the Toronto group, but it seemed >that it was just a vehicle to siphon funds from the regionals to the >exclusive benefit of the Toronto group. If there is interest I could >dig out and post the minutes of the Edmonton groups meeting where this >was discussed. I think this is a combination of at least 42 different effects, of which I will mention only a few: 1) Almost all of the 42 boil down to poor communications of one sort or another. 2) Group A sends merger proposals to group B. Group B sends merger proposals to group A. Neither really tries to find a compromise. 3) Group A claims to represent ``the real X in Canada''. Group B claims to represent ``the real X in Canada''. Both are, of course, full of horse-feathers. 4) Group A talks about joining with Group B, but already doesn't do a good job for its own members, so people in power (or trying to get there) address (or don't) that problem rather than putting energy into joining with Group B. 5) Group A sends copies of its Newsletter to Group B, says talk to us when you can do this! Group B sends copies of its Newsletter to Group A, says talk to us when you can do this! One of newsletters has some nice technical tidbits, one has nice layout, one has good upcoming date information, one comes out fairly regularly, one comes out when necessary, one hasn't come out in 18 months. To keep it interesting one of Group {A,B} even has 2 newsletters! When you add all of these, plus the other 37, plus personalities and traditional (often justified) distrust of central Canada by those fortunate enough to live somewhere more reasonable, it all adds up to poor communication and lack of trust and lack of willingness to work together. Which is very unfortunate, because I think a strong NATIONAL organization would be good for all of us. And good for the Canadian Unix industry trying to export to that big market south of us. >>And more importantly we could certainly use you and your talents on >>the board of /usr/group/cdn, so we can make it !!CDN!! > >Ha! I just wrapped up a three year stint on the board in Edmonton. >I plan on "retiring" for at least a year. Maybe now I'll have time >to start looking at this whole issue again :-) Sigh. (I've been doing that too much lately.) Here is an example of the problem. Someone I respect from factual (except when he's misinterpreting me :-) and knowledgeable postings on the net turns out to have been an adversary :-) for the 2 years I've been on the /usr/group/cdn board, and I didn't even know it. A sad comment, I think, on all sides. People can't we pull together? Please? I want to remain a Canadain, not an American appendage, and to do that with Uncle Brian's new Free-Trade world, we've got to work together to compete in the world market. We're a big country with a small population (at least until the greenhouse effect really gets going), let's get together! ../Dave
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (05/09/89)
mason@tmsoft.UUCP (Dave Mason) writes: >Here is an example of the problem. Someone I respect from factual >(except when he's misinterpreting me :-) and knowledgeable postings on >the net turns out to have been an adversary :-) for the 2 years I've >been on the /usr/group/cdn board, and I didn't even know it. A sad >comment, I think, on all sides. What the hell is THAT supposed to mean? Am I only factual when I don't misrepresent you? [ And what is this supposed misreprentation, anyway? ] If you've been on the board for two years and still haven't figured out where I stand all I can say is "bring on the ballot box." >People can't we pull together? Please? I want to remain a Canadain, >not an American appendage, and to do that with Uncle Brian's new >Free-Trade world, we've got to work together to compete in the world >market. We're a big country with a small population (at least until >the greenhouse effect really gets going), let's get together! OK, for the record, here is a repeat of my previous suggestions (in a nutshell): - /usr/group/cdn shall be the umbrella organization encompassing local and regional groups. It would not have direct members, instead you would join your regional group, which would include membership in the national organization. - Each regional group (e.g. /usr/group/toronto, /usr/group/edmonton) would nominate a national representative from it's board. These representatives would constitute the board of /usr/group/cdn. Initially, the primary goal of the national group should be the production of a monthly newsletter which would be mailed to all the members, and to help co-ordinate speaking tours of "high-profile" people for the benefit of the regionals. Each of the regionals would feed a percentage of their dues to the national group which would be used to cover newsletter costs, and to cover the travel (etc) costs of shipping speakers across the country. /usr/group/cdn should run on a break-even annual budget to keep this percentage as low as possible. There are numerous other areas the group could get involved in, however I feel these first two are all that should be tackled initially until the bugs are out of the system. So there it is. What sayest thou, /usr/group/toronto ?-- Lyndon Nerenberg Computing Services Athabasca University {alberta,attvcr,ncc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@nexus.ca
peter@ontmoh.UUCP (Peter Renzland) (05/10/89)
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: > mason@tmsoft.UUCP (Dave Mason) writes: > >>Here is an example of the problem. Someone I respect from factual >>(except when he's misinterpreting me :-) and knowledgeable postings on >>the net turns out to have been an adversary :-) for the 2 years I've >>been on the /usr/group/cdn board, and I didn't even know it. A sad >>comment, I think, on all sides. > > What the hell is THAT supposed to mean? Am I only factual when I don't > misrepresent you? [ And what is this supposed misreprentation, anyway? ] > ... Now look what you've done, Dave, using them big words! Didn't I tell you them big suttel words would just get you into trouble?! People don't like intectuals -- you gotta come across more congenial, Dave. -- Peter Renzland @ Ontario Ministry of Health 416/964-9141 peter@ontmoh.UUCP
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (05/12/89)
In article <610791087.10876@ontmoh.UUCP> peter@ontmoh.UUCP (Peter Renzland) writes: >Now look what you've done, Dave, using them big words! Didn't I tell >you them big suttel words would just get you into trouble?! People don't >like intectuals -- you gotta come across more congenial, Dave. Gee - looks like you get my vote, eh? [ Maybe it's time for a :-) in all of this? ] [[ My proposal still stands. I don't hear much response, one way or the other, from /usr/group/cdn ] -- Lyndon Nerenberg Computing Services Athabasca University {alberta,attvcr,ncc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@nexus.ca