chk@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (C. Harald Koch) (05/26/89)
IMHO, A user group is *supposed* to be a bunch of people who get together periodically to discuss something of interest to them. In every user group that I have belonged to (an Atari group, the Amiga Developer's Forum, a model rocketry club, ...) the group tried hard to keep things as informal as possible. Politics were specifically disallowed, with a couple of minor exceptions (*somebody* has to organize the thing!) I have never been to a UU meeting, or a /usr/group/cdn meeting. But from the looks of things in this newsgroup/maillist lately, I don't want to either. There seems to be nothing but political maneuverings going on. I would love to hear that I am wrong. In the mean time, if you guys are going to keep "bickering" (friendly or otherwise), can you keep it down to a dull roar? (Perhaps email would be more appropriate?) -- Grandpa Charnock's Law: | C. Harald Koch NTT Systems, Inc., Toronto, Ontario You never really learn | chk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (long-term address) to swear until you learn | chk@zorac.dciem.dnd.ca (my current job) to drive. | chk@chkent.UUCP (my AMIGA at home)
woods@eci386.uucp (Greg Woods) (05/27/89)
In article <1763@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca> chk@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (C. Harald Koch) writes: > IMHO, A user group is *supposed* to be a bunch of people who get together > periodically to discuss something of interest to them. In every user group > that I have belonged to (an Atari group, the Amiga Developer's Forum, a > model rocketry club, ...) the group tried hard to keep things as informal as > possible. Politics were specifically disallowed, with a couple of minor > exceptions (*somebody* has to organize the thing!) Being that I'm one of the one's involved in the "politics", I may be a bit biased, but I don't care. What's happening is that we are attempting to re-direct the efforts of the group back towards the interests of the members (i.e. users :-), both individual and corporate. > I have never been to a UU meeting, or a /usr/group/cdn meeting. But from the > looks of things in this newsgroup/maillist lately, I don't want to either. > There seems to be nothing but political maneuverings going on. Unix Unanimous is extremely informal with the bare minimum of organization required to be sure everyone gets to put their two cents in. The regular /usr/group/cdn meetings are much more formal, with a presentation, group business, and informal discussion. It just so happens that those of us concerned directly with the operation of /usr/group/cdn are also regular UU attendee's. As Evan has said in his posting, time is precious, and we were lucky to be able to attend ANY of this month's UU meeting. I certainly didn't want to miss the meeting (I've been at almost all of them), but was also very eager to talk with my fellow candidates. Perhaps you should keep an open mind and try attending both. Don't judge them by one instance either, as things change constantly. We are trying to maintain/create a dynamic environement that can meet a large variety of needs. > I would love to hear that I am wrong. In the mean time, if you guys are > going to keep "bickering" (friendly or otherwise), can you keep it down to a > dull roar? (Perhaps email would be more appropriate?) The entire purpose of this newsgroup is to discuss matters relating to /usr/group/cdn (note the name). We who are directly involved do use e-mail heavily, but some of the discussion is quite relevant to everyone else, and we appreciate everyone's input. In fact, this newsgroup is gated through the unix-unanimous mailing list (guess where that name comes from). Your input tells me that there are people who are completely dis-interested in the "Unix community" in Toronto (and Canada), and could care less if anyone tries to organize support to help increase awareness and solve problems. I want to find out what will spark some interest in these people, and how to get rid of some of the apathy I see. If you are interested in the Unix community, perhaps you could make an effort to come out and help. Make your interests known. Perhaps you can make a difference to the quality of what we do. [ I say this to everyone, not just Harald, which is why I posted in the first place. ] On the other hand, there are quite a few of us who are interested in what happens in the Unix community, and we are going to do as much as possible to make these events positive. > Grandpa Charnock's Law: | C. Harald Koch NTT Systems, Inc., Toronto, Ontario > You never really learn | chk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (long-term address) > to swear until you learn | chk@zorac.dciem.dnd.ca (my current job) > to drive. | chk@chkent.UUCP (my AMIGA at home) About the only time I do swear with any amount of a blue streak is when I drive, especially on my motorcycle :-) -- Greg A. Woods woods@{{utgpu,eci386,ontmoh,tmsoft}.UUCP,gpu.utcs.UToronto.CA,utorgpu.BITNET} +1-416-443-1734 [h] +1-416-595-5425 [w] Toronto, Ontario CANADA
peter@ontmoh.UUCP (Peter Renzland) (05/27/89)
(C. Harald Koch) whines: > I have never been to a UU meeting, or a /usr/group/cdn meeting. But from the > looks of things in this newsgroup/maillist lately, I don't want to either. Same to you! > There seems to be nothing but political maneuverings going on. Yes, there are some folks who are less mature, less tactful, and who exercise worse judgement than some others when deciding what to say and how to say it, but at least they have something to say, and some actually do constructive things. How would you characterise your own contribution? > I would love to hear that I am wrong. In the mean time, if you guys are If this is a characteristic communication of yours, I'm sure you get to hear it often enough :-) > going to keep "bickering" (friendly or otherwise), can you keep it down to a > dull roar? (Perhaps email would be more appropriate?) If bickering is dull, finding nothing better than bickering to bicker about is just plain disgusting! Lest anyone dismiss all of this as mere quibbling -- please consider that it is precisely the gratuitous efforts at censorship of open discussion of policy matters promoted by the uninformed and uninvolved and apathetic, that leaves the field open to the self-interested. > C. Harald Koch NTT Systems, Inc., Toronto, Ontario -- Peter Renzland @ Ontario Ministry of Health 416/964-9141 peter@ontmoh.UUCP /usr/group/cdn Director -- Unix Unanimous Founder
brian@bkj386.UUCP (brian brian386) (05/28/89)
While peter@ontmoh.UUCP (Peter Renzland) makes many good points - albeit a tab sarcastically - he also states: > Lest anyone dismiss all of this as mere quibbling -- please consider that > it is precisely the gratuitous efforts at censorship of open discussion of > policy matters promoted by the uninformed and uninvolved and apathetic, > that leaves the field open to the self-interested. After this I just couldn't help myself. I ran it through my FOG indexer and got pea soup. I have concluded that the field is really open to the self-interested and the self-indulgent.