paul@moore.UUCP (Paul Maclauchlan) (03/18/89)
Don't forget the Unix Unanimous meeting next Wednesday night! If it seems early this month, that is because someone slipped five Wednesdays into March... unfortunately we only get four weekends out of the deal. Take a break from spring training baseball and bring your Unix questions and knowledge to share with the rest of us. Here, to the best of my knowledge, is the important information: Wednesday, March 22, at 1815 Unix Unanimous meeting UofT FLIS 140 St George St, Rm 212 (St. George, south of Bloor) [come early to get a seat!] Bring your questions! Suggestions for discussion topics are welcome. Please mail to the list (unix-unanimous@moore) or post to can.usrgroup. See you there! -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.UUCP -or- ...!uunet!attcan!telly!moore!paul "Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see"/JL'67
evan@telly.on.ca (Cymru the dragon) (03/18/89)
I have a topic and a request. The request is that I BADLY need a copy of Messy-DOS Kermit. Could someone bring a copy with them to the next meeting, please? Kindly confirm by mail so I don't get a dozen copies. Topic: I've been confused by much of what I've been reading about 'migration from TCP/IP to ISO'. Is this necessary? Will it be a supported part of Unix or an extra product? What will change to the user or administrator? How solid is the current ISO definition? Can both be supported at the same time on a single server? Is it safe for a new network to just start with ISO now? etc... Also, in the light of what's happened at Uniforum and so on, I'd like to hear UU members perspectives on Unix Internatinal vs. OSF. I'd especially like to hear from anyone who's had an opportunity to play with the Motif alpha toolkit. What are the changes coming for programmers used to curses, who have to learn 'event-based' software?
woods@tmsoft.uucp (Greg Woods) (03/21/89)
In article <8903171107.AA03045@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Cymru the dragon) writes: > >Topic: I've been confused by much of what I've been reading about >'migration from TCP/IP to ISO'. > >Is this necessary? YES!!! I think it will make things simpler. Believe me! :-) >Will it be a supported part of Unix or an extra product? If you have SysVr3 or later, you already have some support for both ISO and TCP. Starlan, though not strictly ISO compatible, is designed in much the same way. STREAMS makes implementing, and understanding implementations of networks in general a much easier task. >What will change to the user or administrator? Again, if you have SysVr3, and are hoping for SysVr4, nothing. With SysVr4 I understand that RFS and NFS administration, as well as other Network management tasks will all be integrated into the same sysadm facilities. >How solid is the current ISO definition? ??? >Can both be supported at the same time on a single server? With STREAMS, why not? Latchman TCP and AT&T Starlan on the same machine! >Is it safe for a new network to just start with ISO now? Do you have any machines using TCP? If not, I think the answer is yes. Then again, do you see a future requirement of connecting to ISO machines? >etc... > >Also, in the light of what's happened at Uniforum and so on, I'd >like to hear UU members perspectives on Unix Internatinal vs. OSF. >I'd especially like to hear from anyone who's had an opportunity >to play with the Motif alpha toolkit. What are the changes coming >for programmers used to curses, who have to learn 'event-based' >software? > If you want ISO now, and backwards compatability, and transparent upgrages, or just plain good neworking, you should be looking at SysVr{3,4}. I don't see OSF implementing STREAMS or anything like it, and as such I doubt their networking implementations will be easy to understand, easy to change, or easy to implement in the first place. As far as Motif goes, I must (on this one occasion only, so far) agree with Ms. W. Hindin in her article in UNIX Today! Neither users nor implementors need the fancy displays and useless overhead in both man and machine that Motif causes. I doubt anyone can design a better user-interface than OpenLook. I strongly agree with the philosophy of the OpenLook design, and I trust the designers have done their best. They are, after all, the originators of the window/menu/icon/mouse interface. Unfortunatly, users who are not used to these types of interfaces, who will be the ones buying them, are influenced strongly flashy, sexy graphics and will miss the underlying strengths and weaknesses of the interface. As far as programmer re-learning goes, it will be tough. Unless you have a feel for this type of user-interface, and event-based systems, you are in for quite a leap of understanding. Also of concern is the tremendous increase in complexity. For example, I would expect programming in MS-Windows is mid-way in complexity between raw Xlib and the Motif or OpenLook toolkits. MS-Windows has over 450 library routines, and getting anything to happen can be an excersise in page turning and typing! To top it off, good programmers will also have to byte :-) the bullet and (or should I say grab the mouse by the tail :-) and follow the style guides religiously. -- Greg A. Woods. woods@{{tmsoft,utgpu,gate,ontmoh}.UUCP,utorgpu.BITNET,gpu.utcs.Toronto.EDU} 1-416-443-1734 [h] 1-416-595-5425 [w] Toronto, Ontario, Canada
evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) (07/01/89)
The last UU meeting had the creators of Cnews describe their
work and field questions for slightly more than two hours straight.
Many thanks to Henry and Geoff.
The tentative topic for the next meeting is ANSI C.
When July 26, 1815
Where: University of Toronto Faculty of Library & Information Science
140 St. George Street (attached to Robarts Library), Room 212
--
Evan Leibovitch, SA, Telly Online, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan / Director & editor, /usr/group/cdn
The advantage of the incomprehensible is that it never loses its freshness.