jstewart@madhaus.utcs (John Stewart) (03/27/90)
We'd like to get source code for Mach from CMU. The bottleneck is that we need to get an AT&T Unix source license so we can get a BSD source license so we can a Mach license. Confused? Join the crowd. I've tried talking to AT&T but with little success so far. The people I've spoken to seem to think any type of source license would cost around $100,000. Maybe that would be reasonable if we were a commercial company doing Unix development but we're not. We don't need AT&T source code at all; all we need is a piece of paper that will make Berkeley happy. If anyone knows the real score on AT&T Unix source licenses or has a good contact at AT&T, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) (03/27/90)
In article <1990Mar26.194904.25560@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> jstewart@madhaus.utcs (John Stewart) writes: | We'd like to get source code for Mach from CMU. The bottleneck is that we | need to get an AT&T Unix source license so we can get a BSD source license | so we can a Mach license. Confused? Join the crowd. | | I've tried talking to AT&T but with little success so far. The people | I've spoken to seem to think any type of source license would cost around | $100,000. Maybe that would be reasonable if we were a commercial company | doing Unix development but we're not. We don't need AT&T source code at | all; all we need is a piece of paper that will make Berkeley happy. BSD code contains source code from the original UNIX'es. Mach 2.5 contains BSD code (which contains AT&T code). Thus you need to get AT&T source code. If AT&T no longers offers a reduced license agreement for Universities, and does not offer earlier versions of Unix (I believe you need at least a 32V license, you may need a System V.2 license, which went for ~40,000), you are indeed between a rock and a hard place. Since they own the source rights, there is not much you can do.... -- Michael Meissner email: meissner@osf.org phone: 617-621-8861 Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA Catproof is an oxymoron, Childproof is nearly so
ry@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (ryerson.schwark) (03/27/90)
meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) writes: >jstewart@madhaus.utcs (John Stewart) writes: > >| We'd like to get source code for Mach from CMU. The bottleneck is that we >| need to get an AT&T Unix source license so we can get a BSD source license >| so we can a Mach license. Confused? Join the crowd. >| >| I've tried talking to AT&T but with little success so far. The people >| I've spoken to seem to think any type of source license would cost around >| $100,000. Maybe that would be reasonable if we were a commercial company >| doing Unix development but we're not. We don't need AT&T source code at >| all; all we need is a piece of paper that will make Berkeley happy. > >BSD code contains source code from the original UNIX'es. Mach 2.5 >contains BSD code (which contains AT&T code). Thus you need to get >AT&T source code. If AT&T no longers offers a reduced license >agreement for Universities, and does not offer earlier versions of >Unix (I believe you need at least a 32V license, you may need a System >V.2 license, which went for ~40,000), you are indeed between a rock >and a hard place. Since they own the source rights, there is not much >you can do.... AT&T remains committed to educational pricing. A University-wide license for Release 3.0 costs $1200, and would grant you the rights that you need. Release 4.0 is also available if you are interested. The Price of $100,000 is the commercial price for a Release 4.0 license. I'm sorry that the people you have spoken to have been less than helpful. Pleae try the 1-800-828-UNIX number and identify yourself as from a university(I'm assuming from your header that you are), and let them know that you need a Release 3 license. They can explain the information that they need. If you have any further problems, please feel free to call me at (201) 644-3770, and I'd be glad to help. Ry Schwark ryerson.schwark@att.com att!uso!ry UNIX Software Operation
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (03/28/90)
>If AT&T no longers offers a reduced license agreement for Universities,
Which, of course, they used to, and at a relatively low price (< $1K,
when last I kept track of that stuff; I don't know what the most recent
price is). I'd suggest that the original poster beat up their AT&T
office harder to see whether academic licenses are still offered.tih@barsoom.nhh.no (Tom Ivar Helbekkmo) (03/28/90)
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) writes: >>If AT&T no longers offers a reduced license agreement for Universities, >Which, of course, they used to, and at a relatively low price (< $1K, >when last I kept track of that stuff; I don't know what the most recent >price is). I'd suggest that the original poster beat up their AT&T >office harder to see whether academic licenses are still offered. Well, we just had an offer from AT&T for a full source code license of SVR4 (available for 386 and 3b2) at $5000. This is an educational license, which includes 10 run-time licenses. We got this offer from AT&T Unix Software Operation Europe, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be available in the US and Canada as well... -tih -- Tom Ivar Helbekkmo, NHH, Bergen, Norway. Telephone: +47-5-959205 tih@barsoom.nhh.no, thelbekk@norunit.bitnet, edb_tom@debet.nhh.no
leo@aai.uu.net (Leo Pinard) (03/28/90)
jstewart@madhaus.utcs (John Stewart) writes: >We'd like to get source code for Mach from CMU. The bottleneck is that we >need to get an AT&T Unix source license so we can get a BSD source license >so we can a Mach license. Confused? Join the crowd. > The following is from message <9002050743.AA01497@rice-chex> posted to gnu.announce on 5 Feb 90 by tower@ai.mit.edu, subject: January 1990 GNUs Bulletin. "We hope to use the Mach message-passing kernel being devevloped at CMU. The current distributed version of Mach is not free because it contains code from BSD of AT&T origin. However, the Mach developers have been working to separate this code from the kernel and they now say they have a first version of this running in alpha test. Prof. Rashid assures us that when this version is stable, it will be free." Leo -- Leo Pinard WA1SXE leo@aai.uu.net ...!uunet!aai!leo
ed@mtxinu.COM (Ed Gould) (03/29/90)
>"We hope to use the Mach message-passing kernel being devevloped >at CMU. The current distributed version of Mach is not free because >it contains code from BSD of AT&T origin. However, the Mach >developers have been working to separate this code from the kernel >and they now say they have a first version of this running in alpha >test. ..." While this statement is true, it's important to be clear what it means. The pure Mach kernel (known as Mach 3.0) does not contain any AT&T code. Neither does it provide any UNIX services, or most of the other services we users of modern operating systems expect. At CMU, there are two different development efforts aimed at providing UNIX services based on Mach 3.0. One of these efforts is essentially taking the UNIX kernel code and making it into a multi-threaded user-level server. This server *will* be encumbered by the AT&T license (as will many if not all of the common UNIX utilities). The other effort is producing a set of servers to provide typical OS functionality. I don't know for certain that the UNIX services so provided will be free of AT&T code, but my understanding is that they will. Currently, only the AT&T-based server is (to my knowledge) usable. -- Ed Gould mt Xinu, 2560 Ninth St., Berkeley, CA 94710 USA ed@mtxinu.COM +1 415 644 0146 "I'll fight them as a woman, not a lady. I'll fight them as an engineer."