raju@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Raju Bhatt) (07/10/85)
Dave, Dave, Dave. I read the Wall Street Journal myself and I like it for the business news that it gives, but for international news, NO WAY! WSJ's coverage is heavily slanted towards the U.S. If you were not able to see this, then maybe you'd better start reading other sources. And to think all along I thought I was debating with a man who read unbiased news (at least some of the time)! Shame on you Dave Sherman! > The Wall Street Journal put it very well in this article of May 30: > "Something seems to be missing as violence in Lebanon > rises to a new crescendo. For weeks now, Christian > forces have been in retreat from advancing Shiites; > the number of Christian refugees is approaching > 100,000, though precise estimates are hard to find. Sure they're hard to find because much was made up. Keep the Christians in the West believing that the Christians in Lebanon need Western help. After all, look at what those X@#$ Moslems [sic] are doing to those poor Christians. When Vietnam was split up, the same tactic was used by the "interventionists" to make their fellow Christians believe that the Indo- Chinese Christians were suffering or would suffer. > And since May 19, Shiite forces have been moving in > on Palestinian camps, including Sabra and Shatilla, > around the Lebanese capital... the latest despatches > say hundreds of people have been massacred. Again WSJ with some sensationalism by using the word 'massacred.' We all hear (or read) about sports teams getting 'massacred' by an opposing team, so the use of 'massacre' was used to excite the senses. After all the Christians can feel good that those X@#$ Moslems [sic] are killing each other. > "Where are all the moralists now? They descended on the > Lebanese story in droves when, in September 1982, > Phalangist forces, moving past Israeli troops, drove > into Sabra and Shatilla in search of Palestinian > guerrillas and in over 36 terrible hours killed > hundreds of people, including many women and children. How did the Phalange manage to "move past" the Israeli troops? Dressed like missionaries with Bibles and flowers in their hands? Were the Phalange after guerrillas or were they after Palestinians? After all, who was there to protect them, but the Israeli army. And we know how the Israelis and Palestinians get along... > Some accused the Israelis, in effect, of aiding and > abetting the massacre... I believe more than some (and even in Israel). The Israeli justice system played a drama for the Western (especially American) media. > "But you don't hear the moralists now. Probably because many aren't believing all the "facts" that are "coming from Lebanon." > ... They aren't > blaming the Syrian defense minister. They aren't > asking for a commission of inquiry in Damascus. They > aren't heaping on the head of President Assad the > kind of hateful language they leveled at Prime Minister > Begin. I guess you believe Syrian troops surrounded those two camps. If you do, then please don't return to the net until you get that cleared. > ... And they appear to take no notice whatsoever > of the fact that Syria's brutal consolidation of > its hegemony in Lebanon is taking place under cover > provided by Moscow. And I guess American support for Israeli actions in Lebanon was alright in your eyes...I forgot you got the "it's us against them" mentality. > ... After a while it makes one wonder > whether it was the deaths of innocent Palestinians > that was worrying the moralists to begin with, or > the possibility of a Western victory." Obviously, Dave is one to think all the 'moralists' are anti-Western."If you don't like it, abandon ship." Since American support for Israel was against the Lebanese people [yes, even Palestinians and Shiites belong to the human race; I dislike calling Palestinians "Lebanese people", since they are in refugee status], then 'moralists' should do what they can to stop this kind of action in the future and help to remedy the situation. {Note: I don't speak for all those who call themselves 'moralists'.} > (Wall Street Journal, May 30/85, "Deafening Silence". Ref. CJN 27/6/85 p.2) > Yes, there's a double standard. It's quite visible in Mr. Bhatt's > misleading accusations. Who misleading whom? The Wall Street Journal has mislead Dave Sherman. And as good Christians would say, "Please give David Sherman the wisdom that he needs to see the Truth." I don't want to single Dave out - any person who uses the Wall Street Journal (seriously) for international news does not deserve to get involved in a discussion on foreign affairs unless he meets a fellow follower of the WSJ.
dave@lsuc.UUCP (David Sherman) (07/19/85)
In article <2005@ut-ngp.UTEXAS> raju@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Raju Bhatt) writes: > Dave, Dave, Dave. I read the Wall Street Journal myself and I like it > for the business news that it gives, but for international news, NO WAY! > WSJ's coverage is heavily slanted towards the U.S. If you were not able > to see this, then maybe you'd better start reading other sources. And > to think all along I thought I was debating with a man who read unbiased > news (at least some of the time)! Shame on you Dave Sherman! Raju, Raju, Raju. I do not read the Wall Street Journal. I read that editorial when it was reprinted in another publication. The facts it described are hardly unknown; reports of the massacres of Palestinians by Shiites have appeared in many newspapers. I quoted that editorial because I thought it drew attention very well to the fact that massacres committed by Moslems don't seem to be a big deal, whereas those in which Jews are even indirectly implicated stir up all kinds of hatred. > > The Wall Street Journal put it very well in this article of May 30: > > > "Something seems to be missing as violence in Lebanon > > rises to a new crescendo. For weeks now, Christian > > forces have been in retreat from advancing Shiites; > > the number of Christian refugees is approaching > > 100,000, though precise estimates are hard to find. > > Sure they're hard to find because much was made up. Keep the Christians > in the West believing that the Christians in Lebanon need Western help. Tell me about it. I don't see any outpouring of help from Western Christians for their co-religionists. That's not been made an issue at all. > > And since May 19, Shiite forces have been moving in > > on Palestinian camps, including Sabra and Shatilla, > > around the Lebanese capital... the latest despatches > > say hundreds of people have been massacred. > > Again WSJ with some sensationalism by using the word 'massacred.' We all > hear (or read) about sports teams getting 'massacred' by an opposing > team, so the use of 'massacre' was used to excite the senses. After all > the Christians can feel good that those X@#$ Moslems [sic] are killing > each other. Look, Raju, maybe you haven't read any of the other newspaper reports. The WSJ was hardly the only one. I don't even recall seeing any denials by the Shiites - they admitted that they were killing Palestinians to prevent a PLO resurgence in the camps, which would bring Israeli retaliation. Anyway, Moslems killing each other certainly doesn't seem to be unusual. Iran/Iraq war. Jordan/Syria clashes. Jordan crushing the PLO in 1970. Assassinations and atrocities galore. (You want documented examples, I'll provide them.) > > "Where are all the moralists now? They descended on the > > Lebanese story in droves when, in September 1982, > > Phalangist forces, moving past Israeli troops, drove > > into Sabra and Shatilla in search of Palestinian > > guerrillas and in over 36 terrible hours killed > > hundreds of people, including many women and children. > > How did the Phalange manage to "move past" the Israeli troops? Dressed > like missionaries with Bibles and flowers in their hands? Were the > Phalange after guerrillas or were they after Palestinians? After all, > who was there to protect them, but the Israeli army. And we know how > the Israelis and Palestinians get along... It's been admitted that the Israelis made a mistake in allowing the Phalange to move past them into the camps. But NOTHING in the inquiries which were undertaken indicates an intention on Israelis' part to see innocent civilians massacred. Your hatred shows here; who did the killing, after all? > > Some accused the Israelis, in effect, of aiding and > > abetting the massacre... > > I believe more than some (and even in Israel). The Israeli justice > system played a drama for the Western (especially American) media. The Israeli justice system ran its course and produced a report. Have you read it? > > "But you don't hear the moralists now. > > Probably because many aren't believing all the "facts" that are "coming > from Lebanon." Well, as I said, I haven't seen any denials that the Shiites were killing Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps recently in order to prevent the PLO from re-establishing itself. > > ... They aren't > > blaming the Syrian defense minister. They aren't > > asking for a commission of inquiry in Damascus. They > > aren't heaping on the head of President Assad the > > kind of hateful language they leveled at Prime Minister > > Begin. > > I guess you believe Syrian troops surrounded those two camps. If you > do, then please don't return to the net until you get that cleared. Syria is in control of Lebanon if anyone is. Syria considers Lebanon to be part of "Greater Syria" and asserts jurisdiction over all of it. > > ... And they appear to take no notice whatsoever > > of the fact that Syria's brutal consolidation of > > its hegemony in Lebanon is taking place under cover > > provided by Moscow. > > And I guess American support for Israeli actions in Lebanon was alright > in your eyes...I forgot you got the "it's us against them" mentality. Until the rest of the Arab countries follow Egypt's lead and come to terms with Israel, "us against them" is the only way to survive. I don't think you have the slightest comprehension of what Israel means to Jews throughout the world. > > ... After a while it makes one wonder > > whether it was the deaths of innocent Palestinians > > that was worrying the moralists to begin with, or > > the possibility of a Western victory." > > Obviously, Dave is one to think all the 'moralists' are anti-Western."If > you don't like it, abandon ship." Since American support for Israel was > against the Lebanese people [yes, even Palestinians and Shiites belong to > the human race; I dislike calling Palestinians "Lebanese people", since > they are in refugee status], then 'moralists' should do what they can to > stop this kind of action in the future and help to remedy the situation. > {Note: I don't speak for all those who call themselves 'moralists'.} > > > (Wall Street Journal, May 30/85, "Deafening Silence". Ref. CJN 27/6/85 p.2) > > Yes, there's a double standard. It's quite visible in Mr. Bhatt's > > misleading accusations. > > Who misleading whom? The Wall Street Journal has mislead Dave Sherman. > And as good Christians would say, "Please give David Sherman the wisdom > that he needs to see the Truth." I don't want to single Dave out - any > person who uses the Wall Street Journal (seriously) for international > news does not deserve to get involved in a discussion on foreign affairs > unless he meets a fellow follower of the WSJ. As I said, I don't read the Wall Street Journal. The facts have come out in many publications. I quoted the WSJ because its editorial was expressed well. Dave Sherman Toronto -- { ihnp4!utzoo pesnta utcs hcr decvax!utcsri } !lsuc!dave