jbn@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (John B. Nagle) (11/16/88)
Well, now we have a good handle on what the reality of the product is.
1. The minimum configuration costs $9500 after deep educational discounts
including a contractual guarantee that the buying institution will provide
support.
2. Not all the promised software is included. Mathematica and Lisp are
absent.
Yes, I know it will be better next year. But you have to compare real
products with real products, not vapor ones. So you line up the reality of
the Next machine against the Mac IIx, the various current Sun models, and the
new Amiga annouced at Comdex, and see how it looks. Undoubtedly all the
other vendors will have new iron out by the time Next is shipping something
that works and costs like what they announced.
The exciting thing about the Next machine, other than the really nice
case by Frogdesign, is the software suite. It will be interesting to see
how that looks on the RT line, and even more interesting if IBM chooses to
offer it on the 386 type machines.
John Nagleleach@neptune.uucp (Tom Leach) (11/17/88)
In article <17846@glacier.STANFORD.EDU> jbn@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (John B. Nagle) writes: > > >1. The minimum configuration costs $9500 after deep educational discounts > including a contractual guarantee that the buying institution will provide > support. > > John Nagle John, (and the rest of the net) I have seen a lot of references to a base price of $9500. This is a 'suggested' configuration of the cube and a 330M drive. I asked our rep about this and he said that they encourage this configuration, but they would sell a cube alone if you didn't mind it being slow. (I know this to be true) You might prod your rep a bit since it sounds like your rep and not NeXT is making this decision (or else our rep is doing some no-no's:-) Tom Internet:leach@OCE.ORST.EDU UUCP:{tektronix, hp-pcd}!orstcs!OCE.ORST.EDU!leach ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Middle-of-the-road, man, it stanks. Let's run over Lionel Richie with a tank. >>>Disclaim: It's me, not OCE.<<< B. Catt, Deathtongue. (c 1986)
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (11/17/88)
In article <17846@glacier.STANFORD.EDU> jbn@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (John B. Nagle) writes: > Well, now we have a good handle on what the reality of the product is. > Yes, I know it will be better next year. But you have to compare real >products with real products, not vapor ones. So you line up the reality of >the Next machine against the Mac IIx, the various current Sun models, and the >new Amiga annouced at Comdex, and see how it looks. Undoubtedly all the >other vendors will have new iron out by the time Next is shipping something >that works and costs like what they announced. I think a fairer comparison would be to the Sun-1, the Mac 128K, and the original Amiga. (Even the last is a little unfair, because it's really a second-generation example of its class, while both the Sun-1 and the original Mac defined new classes.) I think it would probably be foolish to buy the first version of such revolutionary hardware, but people will anyway, and that will give the company money and information with which to make a totally killer version 2. For Apple, it was the Mac+ and Mac SE, still fine low-end microcomputers, and for Sun, it was the Sun-2 and Sun-3, also fine machines. I expect the Next-Next or Next-2 will have two optical drives, even more great built-in software, an operating system to die for, a few more minor revolutions (my money's on basic speech recognition and four-way parallel processing, though these may be version 3 instead), and bunch of improvements that we won't know are useful until after people start hitting the limits of the current model. I'm sure that the Next-Next will pose a very serious challenge to whatever Apple, Sun, or (pfffft) Commodore have out by then. > The exciting thing about the Next machine, other than the really nice >case by Frogdesign, is the software suite. Agreed! One of UNIX's real strengths is the amount of bundled software, and Next is going that one better. It's been a real disappointment to see Apple backing off from bundling -- a computer should exercise all its basic user functions when it comes out of the box, and if you find the built-in software inadequate, go to a third party. I'll be eager to see what kind of software suite comes with the thing in 1990. (An even better solution is bundled software which can accept third-party software modules, but that's still a little ways off. But both Apple and Todd Rundgren claim to be working on it, independently of each other.) -- Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim "I've got troubles of my own, and you can't help me out. So take your meditations and your preparations and ram it up yer snout!" - Frank Zappa, "Kozmik Debris"
rminnich@super.ORG (Ronald G Minnich) (11/18/88)
In article <5900@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >(An even better solution is bundled software which can accept >third-party software modules, but that's still a little ways off. >But both Apple and Todd Rundgren claim to be working on it, >independently of each other.) Guess i ought to mention that the amiga can do this now, via its device name space and the AReXX language. A good example is the AmigaTex package, which will do Next-Error and such-like things to the editor of *your* choice. I.e. you run TeX, it gets errors, and if your favorite editor is there and can talk AReXX (most of them can now) then AmigaTex will put you in the file at the point at which the error occured. And move you to the next one. This is (to me) the Right Way to do it, as opposed to the way Unix Emacses do it. "Bundled software that takes third-party solutions" works NOW on the Amiga, but unfortunately the driving force behind purchasing is usually compatibility and safety, not any fun reason ... Let's hope that the NeXT box is not so closed that it is less customizable than the amiga! ron
woan@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Ronald S. Woan) (11/19/88)
In article <7400@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> leach@neptune.UUCP (Tom Leach) writes: >John, (and the rest of the net) I have seen a lot of references to a >base price of $9500. This is a 'suggested' configuration of the cube >and a 330M drive. I asked our rep about this and he said that they >encourage this configuration, but they would sell a cube alone if you >didn't mind it being slow. (I know this to be true) >You might prod your rep a bit since it sounds like your rep and not NeXT >is making this decision (or else our rep is doing some no-no's:-) I think the correct price would be $8500 ($6500 for base unit and $2000 for the 330M drive). I too attended the Jobs demonstration at Berkeley last night and was impressed by his knowledge of his product and willingness to interact with the public. In fact, he took a tour around the undergraduate facilities after the presentation and I was able to obtain an autograph, as well as talk to him. All I can say is what a dude! The West Coast sales manager also mentioned that Berkeley first order would be arriving in mid-January... Personally, I'm waiting for release 1.0 of software before I make a commitment, even though Jobs said that software upgrades would be free or at cost. Jobs also mentioned an existing problem with the scheduling in Mach that places sound at a lower processor priority than the display causing interrupted music when display intensive processes where in use... Last point of fact, I saw Woz here at the bonfire rally tonight! Go Bears! Beat Stanfurd! Ron Woan senior desperately saving money for a new computer...