ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) (10/18/88)
In article <16891@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> casey@cs.ucla.edu (Casey Leedom) writes: >| From: 128a-3aj@e260-3b.berkeley.edu (Jonathan Dubman) >| REALLY bothers me, unless someone justifies it soon, is that the mouse >| and keyboard plug into the monitor. [...] > As I understand it, one of the major `ergonomic' goals of the beast was >to reduce the typical rat's nest of wires that most computers require. One thing I can never stand is having two cords coming out of a keyboard which is in my lap. One is already quite bad enough. Is there a way to move that rodent's tail away from the input to all of my work? >[commercial interests ...] willing to fill the gap. I hope so.
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (10/19/88)
ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) writes: > Is there a way to move that rodent's tail away from the input to > all of my work? If I was designing a mouse, I'd loose the tail completely. Some kind of radio or infra-red data link sure would be nice. Unfortunately, I just don't see any way to engineer it that it would work. Radio would probably get the FCC all bent out of shape (and rightly so) and IR depends on line-of-sight, which is hard to maintain on a typical cluttered desk. I've seen sonic digitzers, but none that work reliably. -- Roy Smith, System Administrator Public Health Research Institute {allegra,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers}!phri!roy -or- phri!roy@uunet.uu.net "The connector is the network"
perl@step.UUCP (Robert Perlberg) (10/21/88)
Cordless mice exist. I don't remember the name of the company, but
there is an infra-red cordless mouse. The sensor is a 1 inch cube that
sticks to the side of your monitor. It also has a cord that lets you
use the mouse while you are recharging it.
Robert Perlberg
Dean Witter Reynolds Inc., New York
phri!{dasys1 | philabs | mancol}!step!perl
-- "I am not a language ... I am a free man!"bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) (10/23/88)
>ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) writes: >> Is there a way to move that rodent's tail away from the input to >> all of my work? > > If I was designing a mouse, I'd loose the tail completely. Some >kind of radio or infra-red data link sure would be nice. Unfortunately, >I just don't see any way to engineer it that it would work. Radio would >probably get the FCC all bent out of shape (and rightly so) and IR depends >on line-of-sight, which is hard to maintain on a typical cluttered desk. >I've seen sonic digitzers, but none that work reliably. As long as we're speculating... What if you put the "tail" on the mousepad instead of the mouse and made the pad the active component, sensing the mouse's movements and sending them. Seems that could be done with some sort of magnetic or similar interface in the mouse, even a battery in the mouse would be within the stated design parameters. The point is that the mouse wouldn't be attached to anything. -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
chekmate@athena.mit.edu (Adam Kao) (10/23/88)
In article <3954@encore.UUCP> bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes:
->
->What if you put the "tail" on the mousepad instead of the mouse and
->made the pad the active component, sensing the mouse's movements and
->sending them. Seems that could be done with some sort of magnetic or
->similar interface in the mouse, even a battery in the mouse would be
->within the stated design parameters. The point is that the mouse
->wouldn't be attached to anything.
->
-> -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
Congratulations. You've just invented the graphics tablet.
Adam
"There is nothing new under the sun." (oops, excuse me)roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (10/23/88)
In <3954@encore.UUCP> bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes: > What if you put the "tail" on the mousepad instead of the mouse In <7614@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> chekmate@athena.mit.edu (Adam Kao) replies: > Congratulations. You've just invented the graphics tablet. All the graphics tablets I've seen (GTCO, Summagraphics, etc) have cords running to the stylus/puck/mouse in addition to cords running to the tablet. Just makes it worse, not better. -- Roy Smith, System Administrator Public Health Research Institute {allegra,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers}!phri!roy -or- phri!roy@uunet.uu.net "The connector is the network"
chekmate@athena.mit.edu (Adam Kao) (10/24/88)
In article <3564@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes: > > All the graphics tablets I've seen (GTCO, Summagraphics, etc) have >cords running to the stylus/puck/mouse in addition to cords running to the >tablet. Just makes it worse, not better. >-- Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of things like the Koala Pad, which is not a graphics tablet but is certainly cheap and familiar. I've seen versions that are bigger and have more resolution, too. Adam
shap@polya.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan S. Shapiro) (10/24/88)
My only objection to the mouse as it stands is that if I put the keyboard in my lap (as I often do) it will constantly be getting pulled onto the floor. Jon
ebert@puff.cs.wisc.edu (Robert Ebert) (10/24/88)
In article <7620@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> chekmate@athena.mit.edu (Adam Kao) writes: >In article <3564@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes: >> All the graphics tablets I've seen (GTCO, Summagraphics, etc) have >>cords running to the stylus/puck/mouse in addition to cords running to the >>tablet. Just makes it worse, not better. >>-- >Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of things like the Koala Pad, which is >not a graphics tablet but is certainly cheap and familiar. I've seen >versions that are bigger and have more resolution, too. One other, unmentioned problem with putting the sensor in the mouse pad and not in the mouse -- picking it up. I can pick up my mouse, move it, put it down, etc. all without moving the cursor. Graphics tablets/koala pads are sensitive to position relative to the pad, not movement of the mouse. Besides, I'd hate to play Crystal Quest on a tablet. . . -- Bob
pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) (10/24/88)
In article <1893@puff.cs.wisc.edu> ebert@puff.WISC.EDU (Robert Ebert) writes: > >One other, unmentioned problem with putting the sensor in the mouse pad and >not in the mouse -- picking it up. I can pick up my mouse, move it, put it >down, etc. all without moving the cursor. Graphics tablets/koala pads are >sensitive to position relative to the pad, not movement of the mouse. > Besides, I'd hate to play Crystal Quest on a tablet. . . > -- Bob So I guess what everyone really wants is a cellular mouse, communicating by radio with a mouse hook which is physically connected to the NeXT box. The mouse could be either mechanical or optical, it would send the same information as always, just through a different medium. You thought driving and talking on a cellular phone could be dangerous; just wait until people stick a power source and their NeXT box in the trunk, listen to synthesized sound on their headphones, and communicate with the computer through voice commands and a cellular mouse on the dashboard. -- Brad
tli@sargas.usc.edu (Tony Li) (10/24/88)
A cordless mouse will grow feet, and crawl right out of the student lab. Bad idea. Tony Li - USC University Computing Services - Dain Bramaged. Uucp: oberon!tli Bitnet: tli@kylara, tli@ramoth Internet: tli@sargas.usc.edu
cloos@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (James H. Cloos Jr.) (10/27/88)
In article <1893@puff.cs.wisc.edu> ebert@puff.WISC.EDU (Robert Ebert) writes: |In article <7620@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> chekmate@athena.mit.edu (Adam Kao) writes: |>In article <3564@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes: |>> All the graphics tablets I've seen (GTCO, Summagraphics, etc) have |>>cords running to the stylus/puck/mouse in addition to cords running to the |>>tablet. Just makes it worse, not better. |>>-- |>Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of things like the Koala Pad, which is |>not a graphics tablet but is certainly cheap and familiar. I've seen |>versions that are bigger and have more resolution, too. | |One other, unmentioned problem with putting the sensor in the mouse pad and |not in the mouse -- picking it up. I can pick up my mouse, move it, put it |down, etc. all without moving the cursor. Graphics tablets/koala pads are |sensitive to position relative to the pad, not movement of the mouse. However, just because current graphic tablets are sensitive to position relative to the pad as opposed to movement of the mouse, it is not required. The 'intelligent mose pad/dumb mouse' combo earlier described could be designed. Concerning mose movement, only software changes are needed. The only limiting factor I can think of would be how to sense button-down events. Perhaps a battery run circut in the mouse w/ an infra-red transmitter combined w/ a i-r receiver someplace on the mat would work. Maybe. -JimC -- batcomputer!cloos@cornell.UUCP |James H. Cloos, Jr.|#include <disclaimer.h> cloos@batcomputer.tn.cornell.EDU|B7 Upson, Cornell U|#include <cute_stuff.h> cloos@tcgould.tn.cornell.EDU |Ithaca, NY 14853 |"Entropy isn't what cloos@crnlthry.BITNET | +1 607 272 4519 | it used to be." a.k.a. jhc@vax5.ccs.cornell.EDU or jhc@crnlvax5.BITNET (N.B. All mail should be sent to me @vax5, especially after 1-Nov-88)
tart@reed.UUCP (The Hunger Artist) (11/02/88)
In article <3954@encore.UUCP> bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes: >>ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) writes: >> If I was designing a mouse, I'd loose the tail completely. >What if you put the "tail" on the mousepad instead of the mouse and >made the pad the active component, sensing the mouse's movements and >sending them. Seems that could be done with some sort of magnetic or >similar interface in the mouse, even a battery in the mouse would be >within the stated design parameters. The point is that the mouse >wouldn't be attached to anything. You don't mean . . . a _graphics tablet_?!? The annoying thing about mice on the Mac is not just the tail, it's the mousepad as well, because those durn mice won't roll on just anything, y'know. Putting a cord on the pad is no solution. Me, i was always partial to light pens. If only there was a light pen you could aim from a few feet back and still be accurate with. Old light pens tended to scratch up the screen, and touch screens got fingerprints all over them. But the original Apple idea (that is, the original Xerox Park idea) was to be intuitive by "pointing" and "clicking". I can tell you stories about new Mac users who would actually pick up the mouse and gesture at the screen with it . . . Side note: the IBM PC Jr. (remember that?) had a cordless keyboard that worked, I think, on some infra-red technology. Worked real well, too -- I could type from across the room on the one they had at my high school. Couldn't see the screen, of course . . . "Our new operating system uses an interface you're already familiar with . . . . . . typing!" =) - grontor who smash -- "I do not take drugs. I am drugs." -Salvador Dali (still alive, 9/27/88)
danm@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel Milliron) (11/03/88)
In article <3954@encore.UUCP>, bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes: > > >ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) writes: > >> Is there a way to move that rodent's tail away from the input to > >> all of my work? Please don't cut the mouse free from its tether. I'd either lose it or it would scamper away under its own power within an hour. Dan Milliron
jr@bbn.com (John Robinson) (11/03/88)
In article <10868@reed.UUCP>, tart@reed (The Hunger Artist) writes: >Side note: the IBM PC Jr. (remember that?) had a cordless keyboard that >worked, I think, on some infra-red technology. Worked real well, too -- I >could type from across the room on the one they had at my high school. >Couldn't see the screen, of course . . . Cordless (non-mechanical) has to be right. The optical mice are such an improvement over those needing friction and cleanliness. Infrared instead of wires for similar reasons. But what I always wondered was, how do you populate a terminal rom with PCjr's? Can you code your keybard like a garage door opener? >"Our new operating system uses an interface you're already familiar with . . . > . . . typing!" Infrared keyboard is nice, but typing isn't. The NeXT appears to have the guts to do speech input to text. Now that will be a revolutionary development indeed. So give me a headset (that of course is cordless by infrared, phone technology or whatever). -- /jr jr@bbn.com or bbn!jr
wrs@pupthy.PRINCETON.EDU (William R. Somsky) (11/04/88)
In article <31811@bbn.COM> jr@bbn.com (John Robinson) writes: > Infrared keyboard is nice, but typing isn't. The NeXT appears to have > the guts to do speech input to text. Now that will be a revolutionary > development indeed. ... I'd still want a good keyboard, regardless of the possibility of voice input. For somethings vocal commands are AWKWARD. Haven't you ever tried to help someone with a programming project, standing behind them and telling them what to write? Stuff like: "for left-paren i equals zero semi i less-than cap-n semi i plus plus right-paren a left-square i right-square equals i semi carrige-return" That's a h*ll of a lot more work than just typing: "for (i=0 ; i<N ; i++) a[i] = i ;<CR>" That's also been one of my pet peeves (Here, peeve! :-) about "point-and-click" mouse interfaces. Flame on! Sure they're easier to learn first off, but once you learn a command line interface, you can usually (almost always) do what you want a LOT faster by typing. Users should be given a choice of interfaces. Unfortunately, it seems that most systems using mice have gone whole hog and dumped the CLI completely. (Yeah, I know you can get some sort of CLI extra, but it should come with the box, not be an extra.) Flame off! Anyway, that's my 20 mils (2 cents :-) worth on this subject. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R. Somsky Physics Dept ; Princeton Univ wrs@pupthy.Princeton.EDU PO Box 708 ; Princeton NJ 08544
casseres@Apple.COM (David Casseres) (11/04/88)
In article <10868@reed.UUCP> tart@reed.UUCP (The Hunger Artist) writes: >The annoying thing about mice on the Mac is not just the tail, it's the >mousepad as well, because those durn mice won't roll on just anything, y'know. In my experience they work fine on any surface you could use for writing, e.g., an ordinary desk or table top. >Me, i was always partial to light pens. If only there was a light pen you >could aim from a few feet back and still be accurate with. If only there was a light pen you didn't have to put down every time you want to use keys, then pick up again. Except for very specialized users, light pens are useless. >... the original Apple idea (that is, the original Xerox Park idea) Try SRI - the mouse was invented by Doug Engelbart's group there, before Xerox was in the computer business at all. >... was >to be intuitive by "pointing" and "clicking". I can tell you stories about >new Mac users who would actually pick up the mouse and gesture at the screen >with it . . . Well, it's less intuitive than some of Apple's hype would claim, but it's much more intuitive than anything else (except some special-purpose rigs). >Side note: the IBM PC Jr. (remember that?) had a cordless keyboard that >worked, I think, on some infra-red technology. Worked real well, too -- I >could type from across the room on the one they had at my high school. >Couldn't see the screen, of course . . . Hmmm. You and I must inhabit different spectra or something. What I heard at the time was that the IR keyboard barely worked at all. David Casseres
callen@inmet (11/06/88)
>>Side note: the IBM PC Jr. (remember that?) had a cordless keyboard that >>worked, I think, on some infra-red technology. Worked real well, too -- I >>could type from across the room on the one they had at my high school. >>Couldn't see the screen, of course . . . > (stuff deleted) >But what I always wondered was, >how do you populate a terminal rom with PCjr's? Can you code your >keybard like a garage door opener? > (more stuff deleted) >Infrared keyboard is nice, but typing isn't. The NeXT appears to have >the guts to do speech input to text. Now that will be a revolutionary >development indeed. So give me a headset (that of course is cordless >by infrared, phone technology or whatever). How do you populate a terminal room with VOICE INPUT machines?!? YUCK! -- Jerry "I'll keep the keyboard and mouse, thank you" Callen ...{uunet,harvard}!inmet!callen callen@inmet.inmet.com
wetter@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Pierce T. Wetter) (11/08/88)
> Cordless (non-mechanical) has to be right. The optical mice are such > an improvement over those needing friction and cleanliness. Infrared > instead of wires for similar reasons. But what I always wondered was, Personally, I prefer friction mice, (actually I prefer trackballs most of all). Why? Grab a friction mouse, turn in 45 degrees and then move it horizontally. You get a diagonal motion with less effort. Now do that with an opto-mouse, you get horizontal motion (unless you turn the pad too.). This is one of those strange skills I gotten from using Macintoshi that I never noticed until I started doing chip layouts on the Suns. (Anyone got Magic for the Mac II?) Pierce ____________________________________________________________________________ You can flame or laud me at: wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu or wetter@csvax.caltech.edu or pwetter@caltech.bitnet
dphaine@trillium.waterloo.edu (Philip Haine) (11/10/88)
In article <31811@bbn.COM> jr@bbn.com (John Robinson) writes: >Cordless (non-mechanical) has to be right. The optical mice are such >an improvement over those needing friction and cleanliness. Strongly disagree! I worked at a place developing software working on DEC and Sun workstations (among others), and distinctly preferred the mechanical rodents of the former machine. The main reason: The Vaxen's cursor moves much more smoothly than the Suns, especially at at high and low speeds. I seem to remember having very much difficulty positioning the Sun's cursor exactly where I wanted it on the screen. (I don't know for sure if all optical mice suffer this problem.) Another reason: Mouse pads are optional equipment with mechanical mice. Falling off the pad won't stop the mouse, and you can use it on your leg when reclining with the keyboard on your lap! (Plus, with the uVax mice, it was possible to whiz the mouse across the desktop, then lift it up at an angle: the rollers which the ball is connected to retains some angular momentum, and the cursor travels in a nice, straight line on the screen! Well, ok...not useful, but certainly fun to do when waiting long processes.) (On the other hand, one good thing you can do with opti-mice is turn a co-worker's pad sideways, and watching him/her get angry when their cursor simulates the Drunkard's Walk!) Phil --- Philip Haine University of Waterloo 905-108 Seagram Dr. ...!watmath!trillium!dphaine Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA N2L 3B8 (519) 884-2482
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (11/11/88)
I'd like to see a microwave or infrared operated mouse that used doppler shift or some form of interferometry for sensing motion over an arbitrary surface. I suppose this could be done with an acoustic wave too. It would be nice to have the advantages of a nonmechanical mouse and also eliminate that striped mosueboard a la Sun worksation too. Then I could leave the mouse in my lap and run it over my leg or whatever. Gee; that sounds rather R or at least PG rated now that I think about it. I can see it now in your bookstore "The Art of Sensual Computing" or some such rot. Maybe this isn't a good idea. --Bill "Thermonuclear what?"
michaelw@microsoft.UUCP (Michael Winser) (11/12/88)
In article <1405@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: >I'd like to see a microwave or infrared operated mouse that used >doppler shift or some form of interferometry for sensing motion >over an arbitrary surface. I suppose this could be done with an I've that Xerox (or maybe Park Place) has just such a mouse. A friend of mine who once worked there told me about it. Apparently you could use any surface that had colour changes. Wooden table tops, cordoroy trousers, even your jeans! Does anyone know if this is commercially available? I tried to find one about a year ago, but gave up and instead, bought a mouse from logitech (no complaints). I do think getting rid of the rodent's tail would be very nice, it's always getting tangled up with my keyboard and monitors etc. Mike -- ____________________________________________ _ /) _________________________ |Nothing I say could possibly represent the \`o_O' "Oop, ackk, phtt!" | |opinions of Bill Gates or Bill the Cat. =( )= | |______________________________________________ U ___michaelw@microsoft.UUCP|
welch@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arun Welch) (11/18/88)
In article <1227@microsoft.UUCP>, michaelw@microsoft.UUCP (Michael Winser) writes: > In article <1405@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: > >I'd like to see a microwave or infrared operated mouse that used > >doppler shift or some form of interferometry for sensing motion > >over an arbitrary surface. I suppose this could be done with an > > I've that Xerox (or maybe Park Place) has just such a mouse. A > friend of mine who once worked there told me about it. > Apparently you could use any surface that had colour changes. Wooden > table tops, cordoroy trousers, even your jeans! > Actually, it doesn't use doppler shift or anything else like that, just a regular little red light. However, it does work on any patterned surface. The best surface is the gray sheet of paper it comes with, which is the same thing as the standard grey surface used for setting contrast for photographs. I've used all the above-mentioned surfaces in a pinch, and even the back of my hand... And, you don't need to worry about some funky mouse pad, when one of our grey-sheets tears/wears out, we just copy another one on the local copier, or have our laser printer print out a grey-scale test pattern... > Does anyone know if this is commercially available? I tried to find > one about a year ago, but gave up and instead, bought a mouse from > logitech (no complaints). > As far as I know, it is only available on the Xerox workstations, which it comes with. You can buy one from xerox for ~$500, the bottom of mine sez the part number is 18K00250. It's got a funny little plug that plugs into the Xerox keyboard, so I don't know how much use this would be. The 1108/8010 mouse had a more standard 17-pin connector on them, and you should be able to buy a whole 8010 for about $500 used. Now that Xerox has decided to move off of their own proprietary hardware to Sun platforms, I've heard rumors that someone at PARC has developed an interface for the Xerox mouse to the Sun, but I haven't seen it. [Religious insert: After working with a Xerox mouse, I can't stand to use the Sun/Mouse Systems mouse]. But, this has nothing to do with the NeXT box, except that the NeXT has a two-button mechanical mouse [barf]. ...arun ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arun Welch Lisp Systems Programmer, Lab for AI Research, Ohio State University welch@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
die@cpoint.UUCP (David I. Emery) (11/20/88)
In article <1227@microsoft.UUCP> michaelw@microsoft.UUCP (Michael Winser) writes: >In article <1405@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: >>I'd like to see a microwave or infrared operated mouse that used >>doppler shift or some form of interferometry for sensing motion >>over an arbitrary surface. I suppose this could be done with an > >I do think getting rid of the rodent's tail would be very nice, it's >always getting tangled up with my keyboard and monitors etc. A boring bit of hardware suggestion. IR is subject to shadowing by the users hand and rf links in VHF or UHF or low microwave are expensive (because of the need to handle strong nearby signals) and there are only limited channels available anyway. How about plain old induction with the mouse transmitting somewhere in the vlf or lf range on a narrow band fsk'd carrier (say 180 khz +- 500 hz) to a simple loop antenna in the mousepad (and nearby for those who want to use the mouse on any surface). A more complex but interference resistant modulation might be some form of direct sequence spread spectrum similar to what has been tried experimentally to send data on carrier current over power lines. Unfortunately this implies a battery powered mouse unless the pickup antenna loop could also serve to create a lf ac magnetic field strong enough to power the mouse. One advantage of this is that, at least with a mousepad mouse, the coupling would be uniformly strong near the mousepad and weak to the mousepad on the system at the next desk. RF linked systems and especially optical systems might have real problems with multiple mice in an office area or terminal room due to mutual interference. -- David I. Emery Clearpoint Research Corp. 99 South Street, Hopkinton Ma. 01748 1-508-435-2000 {decvax, cybvax0, mirror}!frog!cpoint!die
jimc@iscuva.ISCS.COM (Jim Cathey) (11/30/88)
In article <1381@cpoint.UUCP> die@cpoint.UUCP (David I. Emery) writes: > Unfortunately this implies a battery powered mouse unless the >pickup antenna loop could also serve to create a lf ac magnetic field strong >enough to power the mouse. I would think a field strong enough to power a mouse might not be too good a thing to have on your desktop if you strew floppies about like I do! +----------------+ ! II CCCCCC ! Jim Cathey ! II SSSSCC ! ISC Systems Corp. ! II CC ! TAF-C8; Spokane, WA 99220 ! IISSSS CC ! UUCP: uunet!iscuva!jimc ! II CCCCCC ! (509) 927-5757 +----------------+ "With excitement like this, who is needing enemas?"
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (12/01/88)
Hmm, using inductuive coupling to power the mouse... Where I used to work, we had a big Summagraphics tablet. It was pretty old, and used a pretty strong magnetic field to scan the tablet. We had lots of incidents where poeple would forget and discover that their DEC RX-50 8" disks they had thrown carelessly onto the tablet were wiped clean. Now, of course, the optical disk used in the NeXT system has a magnetic coercivity much, much higer than the average floppy diskette, so this is not likely to be much of a problem. I don't mind the cord too much, but I sure would like to be able to get rid of the mechanical wheels and/or the mouse plate. You might be able to make a mouse with interferometry techniques as are used in fiberoptic avionic gyro systems. But then, the mouse would probably be kind of big and cost as much as the rest of the computer.. Give the engineers a few more years. --Bill return mail path: ...!lll-winken!scooter!neoucom!impulse!wtm
domo@riddle.UUCP (Dominic Dunlop) (12/01/88)
In article <1381@cpoint.UUCP> die@cpoint.UUCP (David I. Emery) writes: [Stuff about need for tail-less mice with infra-red or microwave communications omited.] >How about plain old induction with the >mouse transmitting somewhere in the vlf or lf range on a narrow band >fsk'd carrier (say 180 khz +- 500 hz)... Better pitch that away from a band which is used for public broadcast services in many places outside North America. But then, Jobs has said that he has no plans whatever to export the cube... -- Dominic Dunlop domo@sphinx.co.uk domo@riddle.uucp
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (12/03/88)
In article <1425@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: >I don't mind the cord too much, but I sure would like to be able to >get rid of the mechanical wheels and/or the mouse plate... The original Xerox optical mouse did not require a mouse pad -- it would work reasonably well on any surface with ample contrasty detail. -- SunOSish, adj: requiring | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology 32-bit bug numbers. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
dale@oakhill.UUCP (Dale Stevens) (12/03/88)
Don't forget the worst problem with getting rid of the cord. The mouse is now not connected to anything. I don't know what kind of problems would be seen in a university setting, but I have seen things "wander" around if they are not heavy or tied down. One day the optical mouse pad for our Sun was found across the production floor under a Machintosh mouse. Something to think about.
bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu (BMUG) (12/03/88)
In Article <948@riddle.UUCP>, domo@riddle.UUCP (Dominic Dunlop) says: >But then, Jobs has said that he has no plans whatever to export the cube... This seems to contradict the reason the 9600 V.32 modem was not included with the machine; i.e., because doing so would violate certain laws in other countries which stipulate that modems (and other devices which use telephone lines) be controlled, distributed, etc., by the governments. Next's decision to make available an addon box for the phone connection was to defuse this possible obstacle to foreign distribution of their workstation. Perhaps what Jobs meant was that he wouldn't export the cube beyond campus borders :-). John Heckendorn BMUG ARPA: bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu 1442A Walnut St., #62 BITNET: bumg@ucbgarne Berkeley, CA 94709 (415) 849-4357
wgb@inuxj.UUCP (Walter Burton) (12/06/88)
> In article <1425@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: > >I don't mind the cord too much, but I sure would like to be able to > >get rid of the mechanical wheels and/or the mouse plate... I knew there was a reason track balls always seemed attractive. Think about it. Most track balls are small as a mouse or ones can be found that small. Track balls don't need a pad or surface and with som velcro or double face tape can attach to a keyboard. Not bulky and doesn't have to be a permanent mount and no extra surface needed. Now if some keyboard folks are out there how about putting trackballs into the keyboard. ***************************************************************** *My .signature is not working. Hand built by me Walt Burton. * * Live from Indianapolis, in the heart of the SILICON CORNFIELD.* * Walt Burton AT&T Indianapolis (317)-845-3665 !inuxj!wgb * ***************************************************************** By the way is this making it out of Indianapolis?
mayer@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM (Niels Mayer) (12/07/88)
In article <342@inuxj.UUCP> wgb@inuxj.UUCP (Walter Burton) writes: >I knew there was a reason track balls always seemed attractive. Yes, indeed, trackballs are wonderful. On my HP9000s350 (aka Bobcat), I replaced my HP 3 button mouse with an HP 3 button trackball (P.N. M1309A) and I love it! Either or both plug right into the HP-HIL (human intrface loop) bus. I no longer have to take my eyes off the screens to locate the mouse, and I find that hand-eye coordination is improved for most windowing operations such as cut/paste, boinking on buttons, scrolling scrollbars, resizing/moving windows, etc. With a trackball, you can control the sprite position with much precision by "letting your fingers do the walking" whereas with a mouse, you must move your wrist and arm too. The muscles controlling the latter have far less resolution and control than one's fingers. Finally I often have to move the sprite large distances when I need to zip between the two X11 displays on my system: with a trackball, that's easy, you just spin the ball and stop it when the sprite reaches it's destination. With a mouse, you have to drag it across the mouse pad, stop, pick up the mouse, move it to the other side of the mouse pad, drag it again, etc etc etc. A very tiresome, unintuitive and unnecessary set of actions. I've also put the trackball on the floor and used it as a "football". Unfortunately my foot-eye coordination ain't so hot, and it's difficult to keep your toe on a button while rolling the ball. However, in that position, you can als ouse it as a foot massager, like the ones found in yuppie new age stores, next to the orgone regenerators and mystik chakra fluffers. -- Niels.
cook@stout.ucar.edu (Forrest Cook) (12/07/88)
In article <342@inuxj.UUCP> wgb@inuxj.UUCP (Walter Burton) writes: >I knew there was a reason track balls always seemed attractive. ... >Now if some keyboard folks are out there how about putting trackballs >into the keyboard. Trackballs are indeed very nice devices for entering xy coordinates. Unfortunately, the mouse has one big advantage: the ability to move and click buttons at the same time with one hand. This would be difficult on a trackball. Too bad a mouse doesn't have momentum like a trackball. ^ Forrest Cook (The preceding comments were my Opinions) ^ /|\ /|\ /|\ {husc6 | rutgers | ames | gatech}!ncar!stout!cook /|\ /|\ {uunet | ucbvax | allegra | cbosgd}!nbires!ncar!stout!cook /|\
blknowle@uokmax.UUCP (Bradford L Knowles) (12/07/88)
In article <342@inuxj.UUCP> wgb@inuxj.UUCP (Walter Burton) writes: >Now if some keyboard folks are out there how about putting trackballs >into the keyboard. Already been tried -- The company went belly-up (apparently they were a couple of years ahead of their time). As for the NAME of the company, I can't remember it to save my life (but it WAS a really good keyboard, just ask Jerry Pournelle). > >***************************************************************** >*My .signature is not working. Hand built by me Walt Burton. * >* Live from Indianapolis, in the heart of the SILICON CORNFIELD.* >* Walt Burton AT&T Indianapolis (317)-845-3665 !inuxj!wgb * >***************************************************************** >By the way is this making it out of Indianapolis? My .sig has never worked -- it's always been done by hand (kind of) and just "cat'ed" into vi. Perhaps it's best that they aren't working, as I understand it, whatever programs they use to read news, NONE of them use .sigs right. Oh vell... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Please reply via EMAIL! I read the net, but it sometimes interferes with school. If I get any really interesting stuff, I'll summarise and post. -Brad Knowles UUCP: ...!ihnp4!occrsh!uokmax!blknowle OR: ...!texsun!uokmax!blknowle ARPA: blknowle@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu SNAIL: 1013 Mobile Circle Norman, OK 73071-2522 Disclaimer: (The above opinions are my own. They have nothing to do with the Univeristy of Oklahoma nor intelligence of any sort. :-)