mark@mips.COM (Mark G. Johnson) (04/10/89)
In article <2659@tank.uchicago.edu> phd_ivo@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: >Well, not being an established company with a product, a friend of mine >and I wanted to talk to someone at NeXt about getting one of these cubes >for designing a specific program. All we got was a secretary putting >down our name. Even after specifically requesting repeatedly to talk >to someone, we were informed that this was impossible. > >That was about 3 months ago. We haven't heard from NeXt yet. Similarly, **>a message to the only participant of NeXt on this net (Ali O.) was never >even replied to with a hint who we should contact. > >Seems uncooperative to me... I wonder how you even started to talk to >them. Are you big enough so that NeXt would contact you? Sounds like it's known for sure that NeXT has a net-feed (line ** above), so it's a given, a certainty, that most of their technical folks read this newsgroup. Heck, maybe even their marketing & management jockeys read it too. Feedback of both kinds (gripes and praise) on the net are heard (and quite likely, acted upon) if not acknowledged. Also, the command "uupath next" reveals that NeXT can send and receive email; perhaps NeXT would operate less stand-offishly if approached this way. Of course the exact wrong thing to do would be to mail a hotheaded flame to ...!next!steve ---- that'd pretty much guarantee that you'll _never_ lay hands on a freebie. -- mj
bob@tinman.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) (04/11/89)
In article <16913@obiwan.mips.COM> mark@mips.COM (Mark G. Johnson) writes: In article <2659@tank.uchicago.edu> phd_ivo@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: ...Similarly, a message to the only participant of NeXt on this net (Ali O.) Sounds like it's known for sure that NeXT has a net-feed... Depends upon what you mean. The UUCP map database shows that they have UUCP connections with adobe and pixar, but neither of those entries claims a news exchange. They're on CSnet for internet mail, but nothing answers the phone at (what would be) their NNTP socket. You can get mail in and out, but it's a fair bet that nobody reads news on any machines inside NeXT. ...so it's a given, a certainty, that most of their technical folks read this newsgroup. As above, it ain't necessarily so. Mr Ozer participates from an account (perhaps a guest account, or one left over from grad-student days) at Stanford. Others there have similar accounts elsewhere (hi Bob!). Unless the map entries are inaccurate or most of their tech staff have guest accounts elsewhere, they are isolated from the news, and therefore from this discussion forum. Heck, maybe even their marketing & management jockeys read it too. Feedback of both kinds (gripes and praise) on the net are heard (and quite likely, acted upon) if not acknowledged. Some choice excerpts get through and cause occasional waves :-) Of course the exact wrong thing to do would be to mail a hotheaded flame to ...!next!steve That would not only not get you the desired effect, but may get NeXT's net connections yanked altogether. Apparently he doesn't like the competition from other, lesser hotheads :-) :-)
jtn@zodiac.ADS.COM (John Nelson) (04/11/89)
>Depends upon what you mean. The UUCP map database shows that they >have UUCP connections with adobe and pixar, but neither of those >entries claims a news exchange. They're on CSnet for internet mail, >but nothing answers the phone at (what would be) their NNTP socket. >You can get mail in and out, but it's a fair bet that nobody reads >news on any machines inside NeXT. Hmmmm... they have Suns within NeXT and at least one UUCP connection yet they don't participate via news or mail (I notice that one NeXT person uses an account on another non-NeXT machine). This is a mistake on NeXT's part. Usenet and the Internet comprise the largest base of Unix technical and support expertise anywhere. NeXT should both derive benefit from this technical base as well as participate. It's much too insular to "lurk" from the shadows, even if you are receptive to outside ideas. But then NeXT has other things to do... like get their software out of the pre-release stages. Nonetheless, a concerted effort on NeXT's part to join the user community and participate would tell me that they're serious about developing a machine for the community at large. Sine Visa Ars Nihil Est - John T. Nelson
avie@wb1.cs.cmu.edu (Avadis Tevanian) (04/11/89)
In article <16913@obiwan.mips.COM> mark@mips.COM (Mark G. Johnson) writes: >Sounds like it's known for sure that NeXT has a net-feed (line ** above), >so it's a given, a certainty, that most of their technical folks read >this newsgroup. Heck, maybe even their marketing & management jockeys >read it too. Feedback of both kinds (gripes and praise) on the net are >heard (and quite likely, acted upon) if not acknowledged. > Actually, we don't have a news-feed; however, several of us do read comp.sys.next via other mechanisms. Often, I personally hesitate to reply to messages because I would rather not reply than to spend the time it would take to give a good reply. It does seem, though, that people appreciate the direct feedback from NeXT people, so perhaps I'll try to participate more in the future (time permitting, of course). But, I don't want to get involved in discussions about why machine X is better or worse than a NeXT machine, or future product plans, ... You get the idea. >Also, the command "uupath next" reveals that NeXT can send and receive >email; perhaps NeXT would operate less stand-offishly if approached >this way. Of course the exact wrong thing to do would be to mail >a hotheaded flame to ...!next!steve ---- that'd pretty much guarantee >that you'll _never_ lay hands on a freebie. > next!steve won't send mail to the Steve you think it will, but it will send mail to a Steve here in the software group. He already gets enough junk mail destined for Steve Jobs, so please dob't send him more. -- Avadis Tevanian, Jr. (Avie) Chief Operating System Scientist NeXT, Inc. avie@cs.cmu.edu or avie@NeXT.com --
apte@Portia.Stanford.EDU (R Apte) (04/13/89)
In article <7515@zodiac.UUCP> jtn@ads.com (John Nelson) writes: >Hmmmm... they have Suns within NeXT and at least one UUCP connection >yet they don't participate via news or mail (I notice that one NeXT >person uses an account on another non-NeXT machine). > >This is a mistake on NeXT's part. Usenet and the Internet comprise Steve Jobs has decided that the risk of virus is too great on the internet and will not allow anyone at NeXT to perform any internet functions other than mail. This is why Ozer uses a Stanford machine to read/post. Raj B. Apte
jgreely@previous.cis.ohio-state.edu (J Greely) (04/13/89)
In article <1534@Portia.Stanford.EDU> apte@Portia.Stanford.EDU (R Apte) writes: >Steve Jobs has decided that the risk of virus is too great on the internet >and will not allow anyone at NeXT to perform any internet functions other >than mail. I hope this is not hard-wired corporate policy, because it sounds (as written) like a knee-jerk reaction to an over-hyped problem. Hell, even MILNET came back once they were sure the worm was caught. The people who operate anonymous ftp sites supporting NeXT software and information come out looking like idiots ("we allow anonymous ftp for NeXt-related stuff, but *they* think it's too big a risk. But not a big enough risk to encourage their customers to do the same"). If the Internet is too risky, why isn't there an easy way to disable these hideously unsafe features from my NeXT, or at least something in the documentation giving me a brief explanation of what to do? *I* happen to know, but a novice user/administrator could get *very* confused/annoyed/disturbed/miffed about this. Is any mention of this in 0.9, or does NeXT not mention their concerns about network security to customers? (NOTE: The above is intentionally slightly inflammatory, but is not intended as a criticism of the product or the company. At this time, I'm responding to an un-proven allegation, criticizing it as a bad idea of the first magnitude. Anything potentially tactless (or "tacky") is mine, and does not represent the opinion of the Ohio State University. Now, if it were revealed by a company representative that this *were*, in fact, official policy, my approach would be similar, but better researched and thought out. I do know that it is at least partially true, since next.com refuses anything but mail, telnet, and name-server connections (not that I tried everything, mind you). But all the lack of connections shows is the effect, not the intent.) -=- J Greely (jgreely@cis.ohio-state.edu; osu-cis!jgreely)
desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) (04/14/89)
In article <1534@Portia.Stanford.EDU> apte@Portia.Stanford.EDU (R Apte) writes: > >Steve Jobs has decided that the risk of virus is too great on the internet >and will not allow anyone at NeXT to perform any internet functions other >than mail. This is why Ozer uses a Stanford machine to read/post. > >Raj B. Apte Ironic, given that one of the pathways for the Internet worm was sendmail, and that USENET can be accessed through UUCP without using the Internet. Peter Desnoyers