sagar@psu-cs.UUCP (Arun Sagar) (03/06/89)
Hi I haven't used a NeXT yet, so this might be worth <$.02, but... :-) One of the objections/hassles people seem to be obsessed with is the software distribution for the machine. Since the machine has an optical read/write mechanism, can't it be configured to read CD-ROM discs? Since they cost <$5.00 bucks(well, reasonable quantities) to mass produce, that should solve the price problem. Of course, with mega-bytes of space left over, the publisher/developer could put in 24-bit antialiased copies of their manuals on it. Of course, small-time people like us wouldn't be able to distribute our programs through this media because of prohibitive cd-mastering costs, but at least significant commercial software could be made available cheaply. Problems???????
mlee@awamore.cs.cornell.edu (mark lee) (10/02/89)
To: comp.sys.next cc: In an article in NeXTWeek (inside MacWeek 9/19/89), it was mentioned that NeXT users may be able to buy a software over the phone: > A demonstration version of the program (FrameMaker 2.0) > with the save feature disabled will be included > on Version 1.0 of the system software disk > from NeXT. Users can call Businessland or > Computer Craft to buy the program and get > documentation and a password to enable saving... My questions are: 1. If there is a password to enable saving, how will FrameMaker keep NeXT users from telling other users the password? 2. How does the new software distribution system proposed by Steve Jobs work? Will all the programs and data be encrypted so that a software key is necessary to decrypt them? If this is the case, how does NeXT plan on stopping people from giving other users the software key? Any information on these two questions would be greatly appreciated. Mark Lee, mlee@awamore.cs.cornell.edu
jans@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Jan Steinman) (10/03/89)
<A demonstration version of the program (FrameMaker 2.0) with the save feature disabled will be included on Version 1.0 of the system software disk... If there is a password to enable saving, how will FrameMaker keep NeXT users from telling other users the password?> The password is a (non-trivial) function of the machine's ethernet address, which is supposedly unique for every machine in the universe. Therefore, one must have a password for each machine such a program is to run on. Jan Steinman - N7JDB Electronic Systems Laboratory Box 500, MS 50-370, Beaverton, OR 97077 (w)503/627-5881 (h)503/657-7703
scott@prism.gatech.EDU (Scott Holt) (10/03/89)
In article <32739@cornell.UUCP> mlee@cs.cornell.edu (mark lee) writes: > My questions are: > > 1. If there is a password to enable saving, how will FrameMaker > keep NeXT users from telling other users the password? > > 2. How does the new software distribution system proposed by > Steve Jobs work? Will all the programs and data be encrypted > so that a software key is necessary to decrypt them? > > If this is the case, how does NeXT plan on stopping people > from giving other users the software key? > > Any information on these two questions would be greatly appreciated. > In both these cases, the key could be issued based on the hostid of the system. The hostid is unique to each system. It could also be based on the ethernet address, which would again be unique to each system. Hostid based encryption schemes are commonly used throughout the workstation software market. Frame uses a hostid based password in its floating license server for Suns to assure that the license server is run on the correct machine. Of course, nothing can stop the determined hacker who likes making binary patches to code - but then I guess the marketing folks figure that the increased sales brought on from such schemes (one of the big reasons I picked frame for our suns was its demo) more than make up for the loses from a determined few. >Mark Lee, >mlee@awamore.cs.cornell.edu -- This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Scott Holt, Systems Analyst Internet: scott@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Tech BITNET: CCUSESH@GITNVE2 Office of Computing Services 404-894-6168
mnkonar@gorby.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) (10/03/89)
In article <2235@hydra.gatech.EDU> scott@prism.gatech.EDU () writes: [discusion of software keys that are unique for each machine] > In both these cases, the key could be issued based on the hostid > of the system. The hostid is unique to each system. It could also > be based on the ethernet address, which would again be unique to > each system. If the hostid is not hardcoded into the machine, I guess it would be ok. What really sucks is something like what Mentor Graphics does which is setup authorization codes that are dependent on the hard- wired nodeID of the Apollo workstation. When that workstation breaks down, your software is unusable on any other node! Disclaimer: I'm no UNIX dude (I don't even play one on TV) so forgive me if my naivete is showing. ____________________________________________________________________ Have a day. :^| Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP)
scott@prism.gatech.EDU (Scott Holt) (10/03/89)
In article <33442@srcsip.UUCP> mnkonar@gorby.UUCP (Murat N. Konar) writes: > >If the hostid is not hardcoded into the machine, I guess it would be >ok. What really sucks is something like what Mentor Graphics does >which is setup authorization codes that are dependent on the hard- >wired nodeID of the Apollo workstation. When that workstation >breaks down, your software is unusable on any other node! > Well, it is hard coded - on the Suns (I may be wrong, someone correct me if I am), the value is in ROM...I would imagine that its the same for the NeXT. On their Sun Floating License server, Frame allows you to define a backup server so that if the primary server ever goes down, you can start up the license process on the back up. When the license server starts, it first tries to find out if other license servers are running - if one with the same serial number is, it won't start...thus, both the primary and backup cannot be active at the same time. Alas, no "hot" backup, but at least some sort of safety net. Another problem with hostid based copy protection is that when you swap the CPU board, your hostid can change. On Suns this is avoided by replacing the ROM from the dead board in the replacement - that way, even though its essentailly a different system, the hostid remains the same. I don't think, however, this saves you when you upgrade to a new system or do something else which makes the old ROMS unusable. All this generate one very important question to ask when dealing with vendors (like Frame) who use hostid/ethernet based copy protection: "what does it take to transfer the license." This is important becuase you don't want to get stuck with software that becomes obsolete when your hardware does. Of course, the whole floating license server concept is designed to prevent problems like the one you have with Mentor Graphics. You purchase licenses which are not keyed to a particular machine - the license server doles them out on a first come first served basis and makes sure that no more than x copies of the product are in use at one time. Only the license server software is keyed to a particular machine (which hopefully is a more reliable one). I really (hint hint hint Frame) wish Frame had implemented this for their NeXT product - especially since many NeXTs are going to be incorporated in academic and corporate networks...the fact that they didn't implement it indicates a certain level of PC think - that is, treating the NeXT as a PC rather than the networked workstation that it is. -- This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Scott Holt, Systems Analyst Internet: scott@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Tech BITNET: CCUSESH@GITNVE2 Office of Computing Services 404-894-6168
fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars P. Fischer) (10/09/89)
In article <2246@hydra.gatech.EDU> scott@prism.gatech.EDU (Scott Holt) writes: >Another problem with hostid based copy protection is that when you swap the >CPU board, your hostid can change. On Suns this is avoided by replacing >the ROM from the dead board in the replacement - that way, even though its >essentailly a different system, the hostid remains the same. I don't think, >however, this saves you when you upgrade to a new system or do something >else which makes the old ROMS unusable. Like disaster striking while swapping ROM's (hey, Murphy, knew you'd drop by today :-). Of course, you can get a replacement ROM, but that takes *time* (I know, 'cause I've tried it) >All this generate one very important question to ask when dealing with vendors >(like Frame) who use hostid/ethernet based copy protection: "what does it >take to transfer the license." This is important becuase you don't want to >get stuck with software that becomes obsolete when your hardware does. And the problem then is: how to design a copy protection scheme that allows transfers, e.g. allows passwords to be called back? /Lars -- Copyright 1989 Lars Fischer; you can redistribute only if your recipients can. Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk, {...}!mcvax!iesd!fischer Department of Computer Science, University of Aalborg, DENMARK. "That makes 100 errors; please try again" --TeX