[net.followup] Islam -- what went wrong

dbmk1@stc.UUCP (Derek Bergin) (08/05/85)

In article <257@jenny.UUCP> jbdp@jenny.UUCP (Julian Pardoe) writes:
>What  puzzles  me  and what I hope one of you bright people out there can tell
>me is what went wrong.  For several hundred years (I  wouldn't  like  to  give
>exact  dates)  Islam was perhaps the most powerful culture west of China,  the
>best organized and the most scientifically and culturally  advanced.  It  kept
>the  kept  the  torch  of  western  learning  alight  at a time when Christian
>society was in the depths of ignorance and barbarism.  Yet,  by the nineteenth
>century  Islam was quite unable to resist the scientific and economic power of
>the Christian world and its capitalist values.   When and why  did  things  go
>wrong?  


OK - I'll have a go.
The following is my recollection of a theory proposed by James Burke on his
recent BBC series _The Day The Universe Changed_ which concerned itself with
trying to trace the major influencing factors in the developement of our
current world position.  Should anyone else who watched to series disagree
with my interpretation of Mr Burkes theories then c'est la vie and please
keep the flames down to medium broil level.

  During the period known as the Dark Ages most of western Europe was a 
  barbaric society with little or no science and with all law being split
  between church and state.  What little law there was existed in northern
  Italy where books of Roman Law had been rediscovered and were being applied
  (although not with the greatest success).  What little civilising influence
  there was came from Moorish (muslem/arabic) Spain.  Here was one of the
  greatest libraries in Medieval history and a collection of scientific
  knowledge unrivalled in the world at that time.

  This situation existed until the 1100's when the whole thing started to fall
  apart.  The internal rivalries of the muslem society was exacerbated by the
  influx of greater numbers of christians into the area, who brought along
  their mercenary armies. These mercenary armies were soon composed of an
  equal mixture of christians and muslems and fought anyone and everyone,
  depending on who paid. (Historically the most murderous and unpleasant of
  these mercenary leaders was El Cid - somehow Charlton Heston never quite got
  that across :-) ).  At the collapse of the mulsem society the libraries and
  knowledge became available to christian scholars who drifted into the area,
  thus the heritage of the greeks was returned to the rest of western Europe.

  Most of this knowledge scared the ****'s out of the church leaders of the
  time because it basically turned their world upside down, and despite
  attempts to reconcile church and science (the idea of observed truth - what
  you could see ; and revealed truth - what was handed down from God; being
  one the major ones) there were fundamental incompatabilities between them
  which were to completely change everything and institute the habit of
  constant change the culmination of which we see today.  By contrast the
  muslem religous leaders encouraged scientific thought and so this basic
  split never developed.

  The application of knowledge and the 'invention' of technology was due to
  yet another religous split - this time within the christian religion.  By
  the seventeenth century western Europe was well split between Catholic and
  Protestant sects which were beginning to co-exist more or less peacefully.
  In the nature of religion, however, this was too good to last and so the
  protestants promptly started religous persecution of various other
  protestant sects.  One result of this was the exclusion of quakers and
  non-conformists from all important state positions in Britain, similarly
  universities and the army.  The only road upwards left for these people was
  commerce - at the time(and it hasn't changed much) despised by many people
  as below them.  Fortunately at this time Britain's colonies were producing
  much surplus wealth within the home country ( and no I'm not commenting on
  the moral issues involved here) and this found itself a home in starting up
  the industrial revolution. Hence the non-conformists set up their own
  universities and taught science and engineering, the graduates giving the
  rich a means of investing their surplus wealth to create more surplus
  wealth.


This has gone on for too long already but I think I have managed to express
the underlying concept - ie that religous intolerance and conservatism pushed
science forward in christian Europe whereas it's acceptance in muslem society
meant that there was no impetus or reason for developement.

For anyone wanting to know what Mr Burke really wanted to say (after all had
he wanted me to screw up his ideas I'm sure he would have asked :-) ) I
suggest contacting BBC publications and getting the book of the series.



Regards
  Derek

!seismo!mcvax!ukc!stc!dbmk1

I used to think I was expressing an opinion - but there again people used
to think the world was flat.