dgc@julia.math.ucla.edu (01/16/90)
I have just received my new NeXT and, with one significant exception, it
works very well indeed, just as I expected it would.
The exception is using it as a terminal over a telephone line. For
years I have used a Mac as my local terminal in this way. I would send
and receive messages and read the news on the a (Sun-based network)
using the vi editor.
I tried doing the same thing with my NeXT, using "tip" and was most
disappointed. Because the NeXT (apparently) emulates a DEC vt100 and no
more, the vi editor does not shift characters to the right of the cursor
to the right when in "insert" mode (because vt100's don't have an insert
character sequence) It is terribly slow when deleting or inserting lines
near the top of the screen (there is no insert or delete character
sequence) because most of the screen has to be rewritten.
The latter problem doesn't occur locally, even though vi must be
redrawing the screen for each deleted lign.
I have conceived of the following solutions:
1. Plug my old mac (or a terminal like a Wyse 50) into port B, with
"getty" running, login and then use tip to connect to my remote
system.
2. Write a terminal emulator and tell vi (via a TERMCAP environmental
variable) that the four commands {insert, delete} {character, line|
exist.
3. Become a UUCP site and have the mail and news both delivered
directly to my home machine
The first two of these alternatives seem a little ridiculous, while the
third entails more work than I want to do. Is there any other solution
to this problem? Or, has someone already written a terminal emulator?
Or perhaps a "terminal window" which understand the missing commands?
dgc
David G. Cantor
Department of Mathematics
University of California at Los Angeles
Internet: dgc@math.ucla.edu
UUCP: ...!{randvax, sdcrdcf, ucbvax}!ucla-cs!dgcphd_ivo@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (01/17/90)
In article <2150@sunset.MATH.UCLA.EDU>, dgc@julia.math.ucla.edu writes...
+I tried doing the same thing with my NeXT, using "tip" and was most
+disappointed.
I would recommend that you use Kermit. It works nicely on the NeXT,
and allows binary transfers of files...
+ Because the NeXT (apparently) emulates a DEC vt100 and no
+more, the vi editor does not shift characters to the right of the cursor
+to the right when in "insert" mode (because vt100's don't have an insert
+character sequence) It is terribly slow when deleting or inserting lines
+near the top of the screen (there is no insert or delete character
+sequence) because most of the screen has to be rewritten.
+
+The latter problem doesn't occur locally, even though vi must be
+redrawing the screen for each deleted lign.
That is problems with NeXT's terminal emulation package, which is
completely separate from tip. I think Morris Meyer is working on
fixing some of these problems, i.e. to improve the VT100 emulation.
+
+I have conceived of the following solutions:
+ ...
You can also buy Communicae for about $400. Not only does it do
VT100, it also does VT220 and Tektronix emulation, and then
some. Or, you can wait for the next operating system release.
I am definitely hoping that the terminal will improve. This is
my own biggest problem with the Next. I wonder if the Next
X release will come with a nice terminal, too...
Ivo Welch ivo@next.ucla.edu.comjpd00964@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (01/18/90)
/* Written 8:14 pm Jan 16, 1990 by phd_ivo@gsbacd.uchicago.edu in uxa.cso.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.next */ /* ---------- "Re: Slow Terminal emulator" ---------- */ In article <2150@sunset.MATH.UCLA.EDU>, dgc@julia.math.ucla.edu writes... >+I tried doing the same thing with my NeXT, using "tip" and was most >+disappointed. > >I would recommend that you use Kermit. It works nicely on the NeXT, >and allows binary transfers of files... I would recommend you avoid Kermit like the plague. It runs at about 30% efficeincy, at least it did for me. Use XModem or ZModem. Both of which are common and PD. (man rz and sz for zmodem) >You can also buy Communicae for about $400. Not only does it do >VT100, it also does VT220 and Tektronix emulation, and then >some. Or, you can wait for the next operating system release. >I am definitely hoping that the terminal will improve. This is >my own biggest problem with the Next. I wonder if the Next >X release will come with a nice terminal, too... You could also wait a couple of days and get HitchHiker. That is a low end communication shareware program that does xmodem and zmodem transfers for you. It is also only $35 and source code for it can be purchased for an additional $65. It will be at oregon and purdue sometime today. I don't know how long they take to get things assorted correctly. It does not do any terminal emulation, but allows you to use other terminals that will allow terminal emulation. In other words, it can output to the Terminal program and give you vt100 emulation, or it can output to the shell and give you scrolling windows, or probably xmodem when it comes out, or any other Terminal emulator you can get. Michael Rutman SoftMed /* End of text from uxa.cso.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.next */
eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (01/19/90)
In article <246300083@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> jpd00964@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >I would recommend you avoid Kermit like the plague. It runs at about 30% >efficeincy, at least it did for me. You're unique. We've had no problems with kermit, and it's the only protocol transfer available on ALL the machines we run, including Primes and IBM mainframes. The only serial line transfer program we've seen that outperforms the current UNIX kermit is zmodem, but if you've been following Info-Kermit/ comp.protocols.kermit you know that zmodem probably won't hold its trophy much longer... As for being a "tip" replacement for dialing out (which was the original query), Kermit works very, very well. The executable is FREE. The source code is FREE, and kermit programs are supported, maintained, and enhanced by people who aren't going to disappear overnight. The protocol is described in a book published by Digital Press, and the documentation supplied with the software itself rivals the best commercially-produced material. > Use XModem or ZModem. XModem--what a joke. ZModem--for those FEW machines that support it, and when you can get nearly error-free 8-bit clean connections (If you're trying to dial in to one of our campus machines, it takes about a dozen commands to the various things between the modem pool and network hosts to keep them from stomping all over your data ... I had to write the most godawful uucp chat scripts ... kermit survives our relatively hostile environment with only one command to the nasty hardware). zmodem may work fine between a laptop and a NeXT with a 1-meter cable, but it just doesn't cut it in the real world. (If you're really concerned about modem connections, you're already using MNP/V.42 or PEP, right?) > Both of which >are common and PD. (man rz and sz for zmodem) Funny, the last versions of zmodem I saw were definitely not PD, and had commercial use restrictions that all but precluded their use outside educational institutions. If you feel you must part with $100 for decent communications software, make a tax-deductable contribution to the Columbia University Center for Computing Activities. I have no connection with CUCCA other than a very satisfied user of their products. -=EPS=-
telfeyan@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Roland Telfeyan) (02/15/90)
In article <2150@sunset.MATH.UCLA.EDU> dgc@MATH.UCLA.EDU (David G. Cantor) writes: >I have just received my new NeXT and, with one significant exception, it >works very well indeed, just as I expected it would. > >The exception is using it as a terminal over a telephone line. For ... I just heard of a program called Communicae, a VT100, 220, Tektronix 4010, and 4014 emulator. It's $395 from Active Ingredients, 222 Third Street, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02142 (617) 576-2000. Good luck! Roland Telfeyan Center for Performing Arts & Technology University of Michigan