[comp.sys.next] RISC Coprocessor Boards -- Let The Market Place Decide

ramsdell@mitre.org (John D. Ramsdell) (07/10/90)

In article <112780@linus.mitre.org> ramsdell@mitre.org writes:
>It seems that NeXT is committed to the use of antiquated CPU's.  

I think my use of the word antiquated was inappropriate and overstated
my point.  I really had two points in mind.

[1] It makes little sense to replace the CPU of a NeXT Computer when
instead you can simply add a CPU.  Is that not one of the advantages
of using Mach as your kernel?  Why does the mother board have to
have the major processing power?

[2] Let the market place decide if the new processor should be RISC or
CISC.  If vendors think they can make a better profit by selling CISC
coprocessor rather than RISC coprocessors, so be it.  Let the
competition begin!

John

mdeale@vega.acs.calpoly.edu (Myron (the one in Calif.) Deale) (07/11/90)

In article <RAMSDELL.90Jul10070345@frieda.mitre.org> ramsdell@mitre.org writes:
>In article <112780@linus.mitre.org> ramsdell@mitre.org writes:
>>It seems that NeXT is committed to the use of antiquated CPU's.  
>
>[1] It makes little sense to replace the CPU of a NeXT Computer when
>instead you can simply add a CPU.  Is that not one of the advantages
>of using Mach as your kernel?  Why does the mother board have to
>have the major processing power?
>
[stuff deleted]
>John

	Yeah! Why indeed?
	It'd be nice to have access to some of that RISC stuff.  However
if the 040 could off-load all the screen re-draw to a coprocessor and
have an upgraded DSP chip handle the array processing (not to mention
I/O) ... and the 040 already looks promising. This extra silicon doesn't
show up in the box scores though (ie. Dhrystones, etc. ) and marketing
has a hard time selling such.
	Excellent question, though I may be putting a different stress
on it. Time to read up on threads and distributed processing.


-Myron

edwardj@microsoft.UUCP (Edward JUNG) (07/14/90)

In article <RAMSDELL.90Jul10070345@frieda.mitre.org> ramsdell@mitre.org writes:
>In article <112780@linus.mitre.org> ramsdell@mitre.org writes:
>>It seems that NeXT is committed to the use of antiquated CPU's.  
>
>I think my use of the word antiquated was inappropriate and overstated
>my point.  I really had two points in mind.
>
>[1] It makes little sense to replace the CPU of a NeXT Computer when
>instead you can simply add a CPU.  Is that not one of the advantages
>of using Mach as your kernel?  Why does the mother board have to
>have the major processing power?

Good point, but mixing CPU instruction sets is a pain w.r.t.
software distribution (eg to do symmetric MP transparently
you would need to have multiple binaries or something slightly
vaporous such as ANDF; to do asymmetric MP you make assumptions
about the target environment that Mach cannot currently abstrac
away).

But if your point is just that NeXT should enable MP (multiple
motherboards), then I agree.  If it's that NeXT should enable
coprocessors running Mach in an MP manner (minimal Mach kernel
on each "card"), then I also agree.  If it's that NeXT should
split its efforts along RISC and 680x0 boundries, then I
disagree -- I think it would be a bad strategic move at this
point in their company lifecycle.  They need focus before
division.  Why complicate the market at this point?

>
>[2] Let the market place decide if the new processor should be RISC or
>CISC.  If vendors think they can make a better profit by selling CISC
>coprocessor rather than RISC coprocessors, so be it.  Let the
>competition begin!
>
>John

CISC actually can have advantages in MP situations.  I think that
NeXT should leverage CISC MP before jumping into the RISC fray,
unless they want to solve the difficult compatibility problems.

As a side note, Microsoft has OS running on RISC.  The issues of
multiple CPU architectures are by no means trivial, even at
the applications software level.

Edward Jung
Systems Architecture
Systems Strategy Task Force
Microsoft Corp.

"I speak for myself, not my company."