geb@cadre.ARPA (Gordon E. Banks) (08/11/85)
The posting on lack of treatment for viral infections (besides immunization, an enormous success of scientific medicine) betrays a rather foolish (but common) attitude toward nature, science and medicine. The universe was not fashioned for the sole convenience of man, and impatient foot stamping when it refuses to fall under his control is silly. Why should medicine be embarressed? Should physicists be embarressed because there aren't nuclear fusion reactors? Because there aren't any warp drives? Come off it! What are you contributing to solve the problems besides a lot of hot air?
sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) (08/12/85)
In article <191@tekig5.UUCP> davidl@tekig5.UUCP (David Levadie) writes: >... >any screaming and yelling about it. Look at rabies, for instance. How >long has it been with us? I think there's finally been a recorded >case of a rabies victim surviving, in the U.S., under intensive care. Uh, rabies is quite curable. A friend of mine was once bitten by a dog that turned out to have rabies. She got a LOT of shots. -- - Sean Casey UUCP: sean@ukma.UUCP or - Department of Mathematics {cbosgd,anlams,hasmed}!ukma!sean - University of Kentucky ARPA: ukma!sean@ANL-MCS.ARPA
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (08/12/85)
> We've had antibiotics to combat bacterial infections for HOW long now? > There seems to be virtually NO bacterial infection which doesn't yield > to SOME sort of chemotherapy. But there seems to be virtually no > viral infection that DOES yield to ANY sort of chemotherapy! ... > ... > the inventory of pathogenic viruses is becoming MORE and more interesting. > Go ahead, get upset about AIDS - How would you like to see an AIDS virus > that DOES spread like the common cold? Or a rabies virus? ... > ... > One has to wonder how long we have before the inevitable, particularly with > some of the rumors I hear about research in biogenetic warfare. I believe the > Wall Street Journal published some articles a while back claiming that that > Russians were attempting to engineer a flu virus which would produce cobra > venom. That may be a little far-fetched in reality, but it's certainly > not beyond the nonexistent morality of some of the nerds in the scientific > community to attempt it, if they could get the funding (no need to debate > whether there's anyone amoral enough to fund it, I hope). ... Not only is it possible *today* to engineer a virus which will produce, say, cobra venom, but it is possible to take it a step further... Various governments (the U.S. included) have been quietly but seriously investigating the creation of *racially-specific* microorganisms, including viruses which will affect only persons of a specific race. I am certain that all of you have heard of racially-specific diseases such as sickle cell anemia, Tay-Sachs disease, etc. Think about this a minute... CBW is just as appalling as nuclear warfare. We all certainly hope it will never happen. An interesting point is that it would probably require far less resources for a third world country to develop an effective CBW weapon than to develop an atomic weapon. Is such work going on? Who knows? This kind of work can be easily disguised as part of a medical research effort. I am certain that a number of people will ask: Why is the *U. S.* conducting research in the CBW area? Why has Congress recently approved a program to manufacture a binary [not the digital kind...] 'nerve gas' weapon? The answer, as far as I am concerned, is a parallel to the atomic weapon situation: The U. S. is caught between a rock and a hard place. It must conduct research to develop effective [if possible] countermeasures. Why should the U.S. *produce* any CBW weapons? As a deterrent in the same manner as the continuing production of atomic weapons. Does this really work as a deterrent? Who knows? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York | | UUCP {decvax,dual,rocksanne,rocksvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry | | VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice,shell}!baylor!/ | | FAX 716/741-9635 {AT&T 3510D} syr!buf!/ | | TELEX 69-71461 ansbak: ELGECOMCLR {via WUI} | | | | "Have you hugged your cat today?" | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
tim@cithep.UucP (Tim Smith ) (08/14/85)
Another point to Tektronix in their continuing battle with AT&T to post the
most inappropriate things to net.general. Has anyone been keeping score?
The different game plans of the two teams are quite interesting. Tektronix
seems to go for the diverse approach, while AT&T specializes in the "Item
for sale in New Jersey" posting.
:-) :-) :-)
--
Tim Smith
ihnp4!{wlbr!callan,cithep}!timmbr@aoa.UUCP (Mark Rosenthal) (08/14/85)
In article <314@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: > Not only is it possible *today* to engineer a virus which will produce, >say, cobra venom, but it is possible to take it a step further... > Various governments (the U.S. included) have been quietly but seriously >investigating the creation of *racially-specific* microorganisms, including >viruses which will affect only persons of a specific race. I am certain that >all of you have heard of racially-specific diseases such as sickle cell >anemia, Tay-Sachs disease, etc. Think about this a minute... Can you provide sources which will confirm this allegation? -- Mark of the Valley of Roses ...!{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!aoa!mbr
emigh@ecsvax.UUCP (Ted Emigh) (08/14/85)
In article <314@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: > Various governments (the U.S. included) have been quietly but seriously >investigating the creation of *racially-specific* microorganisms, including >viruses which will affect only persons of a specific race. I am certain that >all of you have heard of racially-specific diseases such as sickle cell >anemia, Tay-Sachs disease, etc. Think about this a minute... Hold on a second!! Sickle cell anemia and Tay-Sachs disease are not racially specific diseases. Instead, they are genetic diseases that are more frequent in some populations (races) than in other populations. In the case of sickle cell anemia, individuals who are heterozygous for this gene have some protection against malaria, so it is more common in those areas with a historically high rate of malaria (Equatorial Africa, SE Asia, etc). Even so, it occurs in European populations, among others. I can think of no way of introducing sickle cell anemia or Tay-Sachs disease into a population through chemical warfare. --Ted-- -- Ted H. Emigh Genetics and Statistics, North Carolina State U, Raleigh NC USENET: {akgua decvax duke ihnp4 unc}!mcnc!ecsvax!emigh ARPA: decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!emigh@BERKELEY BITNET: nemigh@tucc
john@frog.UUCP (John Woods) (08/14/85)
> In article <191@tekig5.UUCP> davidl@tekig5.UUCP (David Levadie) writes: > >... > >any screaming and yelling about it. Look at rabies, for instance. How > >long has it been with us? I think there's finally been a recorded > >case of a rabies victim surviving, in the U.S., under intensive care. > > Uh, rabies is quite curable. A friend of mine was once bitten by a dog that > turned out to have rabies. She got a LOT of shots. > Rabies, per se, is nearly incurable. However, the virus is quite a slow starter, so that if you are bitten by a rabid animal and start the shots immediately, you will be immune by the time the rabies virus really gets going. Once the virus gets going, however, it is very dangerous. I believe that the total of survived cases is up to about 4, worldwide. -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101 ...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA
scw@ucla-cs.UUCP (08/16/85)
In article <314@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: >> We've had antibiotics [...] AIDS - How would you like to see an AIDS virus >> that DOES spread like the common cold? Or a rabies virus? ... It does spread like rabies (exchange of bodily fluids [saliva in this case]). >> ... >> One has to wonder how [...] enough to fund it, I hope). ... Improbable to say the least. Also Cobra venom is not nearly as toxic as say the botulisim toxin (sorry I forget the exact name). > > Not only is it possible *today* to engineer a virus which will produce, >say, cobra venom, but it is possible to take it a step further... > Various governments (the U.S. included) have been quietly but seriously >investigating the creation of *racially-specific* microorganisms, including >viruses which will affect only persons of a specific race. I am certain that >all of you have heard of racially-specific diseases such as sickle cell >anemia, Tay-Sachs disease, etc. Think about this a minute... WHOA!!!!! HALT! STOP!! FREEZE THE BOARD!!!! Sickle Cell Anemia, Tay-Sachs disease, (and others of that ilk) are all GENITIC diseases. That means that YOU ARE BORN with it. There is no agent (bacteria/viris/other) that causes them. Although medical Science can (with some reasonable degree of accuracy) determine a persons race from tissue samples & blood type (there are a whole slew of markers in blood), that doesn't imply a knowledge with sufficent detail to tailor a 'Racially- Specific Microorganism', You think about this for a Few WEEKS.... > CBW is just as appalling as nuclear warfare. We all certainly hope it >will never happen. An interesting point is that it would probably require far >less resources for a third world country to develop an effective CBW weapon >than to develop an atomic weapon. Is such work going on? Who knows?... Well Iraq (certianly a 3rd world country) seems to have reintroduced Mustard Gas into warfare. The technology required to produce most of the non nerve gas agents is not vary high. > ... This >kind of work can be easily disguised as part of a medical research effort. > I am certain that a number of people will ask: Why is the *U. S.* >conducting research in the CBW area? Why has Congress recently approved a >program to manufacture a binary [not the digital kind...] 'nerve gas' weapon? That's simple the binary agent is MUCH MUCH MUCH (enough muches?) safer to store/transport/and use. It's called a Binary agent because it comes in 2 parts (much like epoxy) either part ,by itself, is harmless, mixed together ,however, they are deadly. >The answer, as far as I am [...] atomic weapons. Does this really work >as a deterrent? This is not clear, it is known that the Soviet Union has a LARGE stock of Chemical weapons, and from recient history it seems that they are not adverse to using them. >Who knows? Most anyone who keeps up on what's happening in the world.
eugene@ames.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (08/17/85)
> > Various governments (the U.S. included) have been quietly but seriously > >investigating the creation of *racially-specific* microorganisms, including > > Can you provide sources which will confirm this allegation? > Mark of the Valley of Roses > ...!{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!aoa!mbr If he can't, I can. A couple of books on the subject, one by a USA Col. and the other by Robin Cook on Biological warfare mention racially specific characteristics [in particular, cocc.*: aka San J. Valley Fever, a fungus]. This does not extrapolate that such agents would be used for their racial qualities. More that if a particular force has members of that racial group, it increases the likelyhood that use of that weapon may backfire. This stuff was only in the appendicies. I can't remember the title fo the former text, by the latter was Silent Weapons [pretty old by now]. No need to creat new germs anew when many exist already. --eugene miya the views expressed herein are not my employer's.
abc@brl-tgr.ARPA (Brint Cooper ) (08/18/85)
In article <2050@ukma.UUCP> sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) writes: >In article <191@tekig5.UUCP> davidl@tekig5.UUCP (David Levadie) writes: > >Uh, rabies is quite curable. A friend of mine was once bitten by a dog that >turned out to have rabies. She got a LOT of shots. > > >-- > >- Sean Casey UUCP: sean@ukma.UUCP or >- Department of Mathematics {cbosgd,anlams,hasmed}!ukma!sean >- University of Kentucky ARPA: ukma!sean@ANL-MCS.ARPA Sorry, Sean. What your friend got was a vaccine to PREVENT rabies, much like vaccines that prevent polio or other virus infections. I'm willing to bet that your friend showed no rabies symptoms. At present, there is a patient at The Johns Hopkins Hospital who might have contracted rabies. Beyond life support, there is nothing to be done. Brint
root@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (08/18/85)
>From: emigh@ecsvax.UUCP (Ted Emigh) >Subject: Re: Viral infections: Modern medicine seems virtually helpless! >...I can think of no way of >introducing sickle cell anemia or Tay-Sachs disease into a population through >chemical warfare. Although I agree with your first point (that these diseases are not racially specific at all in the sense of somehow it is easier to induce in some populations) don't let the limits of your imagination act as a proof. Some attacks on sickle-cell involve specific viruses which change the the broken gene pattern (I forget what it was, but isn't it just one misplaced base?) with the correct pattern. If such a cure is possible, then inducing genetic diseases should be similarly possible, though *not* racially specific (that would take a method that distinguished the race somehow and also induced the disease, pretty absurd.) Kinda points out how frightening a lot of this research is, we may be in more danger from a broken test-tube than all the nuclear bombs combined, at least the latter don't grow by themselves! -Barry Shein, Boston University
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/19/85)
A much more reprehensible result of modern research priorities is the total lack
of a cure for ACNE. Bill the Cat died of this horrible disease, which IS
bacterial in origin! Who's next?
--
Peter (Made in Australia) da Silva
UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter
MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076