wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Shipley) (09/19/90)
In the BaNG Journal volume 1 number 1, page 15, Michael Mayer quotes Bud Tribble (VP of Software Engineering at NeXT) on the restrictions Apple placed on NeXT five years ago, in order to ensure they didn't compete: "They said that any new machine NeXT developed had to to run at 20 MHz or more and have at least 4 MB of RAM, 100 MB of disk space and one million pixels on the screen. We were thrilled. These were almost exactly the minimum standards we had set for ourselves." Well, today at the big unveiling Jobs announced the NeXTstation (which will be reviewed to death by others, so I'll be brief), which NeXT document number N6030 describes as: 8 MB of RAM, 105 MB of hard disk, and a MegaPixel display. And a 68040. All for $4,995 retail. Boy, I bet Apple feels silly now. You know, if I were going to limit somebody from competing with me, I'd ask him to produce _inferior_ products, not superior ones. -william shipley NOTE: See how everything in this posting is from published sources!
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (09/19/90)
In article <7753@milton.u.washington.edu> wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Shipley) writes:
Well, today at the big unveiling Jobs announced the NeXTstation (which
will be reviewed to death by others, so I'll be brief), which NeXT
document number N6030 describes as:
Anything earthshaking happen at the unveiling? Some of us couldn't
make it :-).
-Mikemccoy@statBerkeley.EDU (Gary Mccoy) (09/20/90)
|> |> "They said that any new machine NeXT developed had to to run at 20 MHz |> or more and have at least 4 MB of RAM, 100 MB of disk space and one |> million pixe|> |> 8 MB of RAM, 105 MB of hard disk, and a MegaPixel display. And a 68040. |> All for $4,995 retail. |> |> Boy, I bet Apple feels silly now. You know, if I were going to limit |> somebody from competing with me, I'd ask him to produce _inferior_ |> products, not superior ones. |> |> |> -william shipley |> |> NOTE: See how everything in this posting is from published sources! Hey you forgot to mention 2.88MB DOS-compatible floppy, twisted-pair & thin ethernet, and 15 MIPS. The educational price is in the $3500 range.
jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Bryce Jasmer) (09/20/90)
wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Shipley) writes: >NeXT document number N6030 describes [the NeXTstation] as: >8 MB of RAM, 105 MB of hard disk, and a MegaPixel display. And a 68040. >All for $4,995 retail. And if you buy it before December 31, 1990 you will also get a free copy of Lotus' Improv. This is also true for buying the upgrade board for current machines. So I am now in a dilemma, do I buy Christmas gifts for the family or do I save the money and buy an upgrade? <half smiley.> Bryce Jasmer jasmerb@ohsu.edu
bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) (09/20/90)
In article <38752@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> mccoy@statBerkeley.EDU (Gary Mccoy) writes: >Hey you forgot to mention 2.88MB DOS-compatible floppy, twisted-pair & >thin ethernet, >and 15 MIPS. The educational price is in the $3500 range. Lets hope that they have this floppy drive all set up for use with dump(8). It could be pretty useful for backing up projects that don't change lotsa stuff (esp. if you could filter out .o and binary files). The floppy would be nice for daily level 2 (or whatever) and the weekly level 1 or monthly level 0 (or however you did it) could be appended to the end of an optical disk... Of course, 20Mb in a floppy would have been much better for this and many other things, but that idea must be a bit before its time. Sigh! -- Dave Bakken Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu Dept. of Comp. Sci.; U.of Ariz. UUCP: uunet!arizona!bakken Tucson, AZ 85721; USA Bitnet: bakken%cs.arizona.edu@Arizrvax AT&T: +1 602 621 4976 FAX: +1 602 621 4246
Greg_Paul_Herlihy@cup.portal.com (09/21/90)
>Boy, I bet Apple feels silly now. You know, if I were going to limit >somebody from competing with me, I'd ask him to produce _inferior_ >products, not superior ones. >-william shipley No, you should limit your competition to machines that don't sell very well. From a company's point of view a superior product is one that sells and makes money. Apple has sold about 4 million macs and is a 5 billion dollar company. NeXT has failed to sell even 10,000 machines, and most sold were to universities and with steep discounts as an inducement. Now who looks silly? Greg Herlihy
bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) (09/24/90)
In article <34109@cup.portal.com>, Greg_Paul_Herlihy@cup.portal.com writes: > >Boy, I bet Apple feels silly now. You know, if I were going to limit > >somebody from competing with me, I'd ask him to produce _inferior_ > >products, not superior ones. > > >-william shipley > > No, you should limit your competition to machines that don't sell very well. > > From a company's point of view a superior product is one that sells and > makes money. Apple has sold about 4 million macs and is a 5 billion dollar > company. > > NeXT has failed to sell even 10,000 machines, and most sold were to > universities and with steep discounts as an inducement. > > Now who looks silly? > > Greg Herlihy you do.... read the facts. Where will Apple price the (eventual) '040 mac .. most likely above the "fx" ($11,000) Now if it is that (with no monitor, software ore even A STINKING KEYBOARD!) against a $5,000.00 machine, with fewer (although quite capeable) packages, well, I would say that at least a few people will take the $5,000.00 option. At least enough to keep a small company (like NeXT) solvent. Bruce Henderson Ashton Tate NeXTeam
gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (09/25/90)
------------- In article <337@atncpc.UUCP>, bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) writes... [...] >read the facts > >Where will Apple price the (eventual) '040 mac >... most likely above the "fx" ($11,000) > >Now if it is that (with no monitor, software >ore even A STINKING KEYBOARD!) against a >$5,000.00 machine, with fewer (although >quite capeable) packages, well, I would say that >at least a few people will take the $5,000.00 Um, I hate to intrude upon your fantasies, but maybe you should wake up now. It is _highly_ unlikely that Apple will price their 040 machines that high, given that you could purchase a Next for $600-7000 (the $5000 price is a misleading price; unless you happen to have a fast server, you'll need to get a bigger HD than 105). This is the same thing that happened to Next. Do you think they lowered their prices solely because they're nice folk? Not likely. They lowered them because market pressures (such as Sparcstations, lack of sales, A/UX 2.0, etc.) lead them to. And Apple will almost certainly follow. To start, I'd look for a drop in the IIfx prices, to follow the IIci drop earlier this quarter. And I would _not_ look for 040 machines priced greatly over $10k, if they are even that much. I could be wrong, and Apple could act crazy, but it is more probable that they will act rationally, as Next did. Robert ============================================================================ = gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu * generic disclaimer: * "It's more fun to = = * all my opinions are * compute" = = * mine * -Kraftwerk = ============================================================================
bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) (09/26/90)
In article <1990Sep24.193245.22939@midway.uchicago.edu>, gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: > ------------- > Um, I hate to intrude upon your fantasies, but maybe you should wake up now. > It is _highly_ unlikely that Apple will price their 040 machines that high, > given that you could purchase a Next for $600-7000 (the $5000 price is a > misleading price; unless you happen to have a fast server, you'll need to get a > bigger HD than 105). Have you actually used on of the "105" machines? I think not (yes, I am speaking from first hand experience) because they are quite capeable. Some people may went a larger hard disk, but the machine runs very well without it. > > This is the same thing that happened to Next. Do you think they lowered their > prices solely because they're nice folk? Not likely. They lowered them > because market pressures (such as Sparcstations, lack of sales, A/UX 2.0, etc.) > lead them to. And Apple will almost certainly follow. To start, I'd look for > a drop in the IIfx prices, to follow the IIci drop earlier this quarter. And I > would _not_ look for 040 machines priced greatly over $10k, if they are even > that much. You may be correct. But If you look at the way that Apple has thier pricing structure set up, If they were to introduce a ne "King of the Hill" at a lower price that thier previous "King", then they would have to move the price on much of thier line downward to compensate. This is not a trivial mater in the least, mostly due to the fact that the entire dealer network will then require monitary compensation for product already in the channel. (for those of you unfamiliar, this is the common practice before lowering prices, it helps to keep dealers from getting screwed). NeXT did not price these machines for any reason but this: They want to win. It has nothing to do with pressure. I don't think they care about wimpy Sparc machines at all. They are going to sell into that niche (scientific/ education) but that is not thier primary thrust anymore. They are going for mainstream business. And Suns are hardly a viable platform for mainstream businesses. Bruce Henderson Ashton Tate NeXTeam