b645zai@utarlg.utarl.edu (Jay Finger) (10/15/90)
The following is a summary to several questions asked by myself and by
Ajay Shah (ajayshah%monty@rand.org). I include each question, followed
by the replies to each question. The questions I asked are first,
followed by Ajay's.
Special thanks to the following people who responded (to me, Ajay, or both)
agm@cs.brown.edu (Axal Merk)
cyliao@hardy.u.washington.edu (Chun-Yao Liao)
jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Bryce Jasmer)
kuszewsk@hamilton.biology.yale.edu (John Kuszewski)
asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu (Kareth)
scott@gac.edu (scott hess)
barry@math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman)
eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu (Eric P. Scott)
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>What kind of printers can I use? I've been told that the OS includes
>support for HP LaserJet IIs (don't know if he meant 1.0 had it or it's new
>in 2.0). If this is true does the NeXT still do the rasterizing internally
>and then send the bitmap out? How long does that take?
From: agm@cs.brown.edu
No, only PostScript output is supported. Thus, you would need to get
the PostScript-module for the printer.
From: cyliao@hardy.u.washington.edu
You can use NeXT laser printers connected throu a special printer
port on the NeXT or to any other postscirpt device throu the serial
ports.
From: jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU
Any postscript printer that can be hooked up to a serial port can be used.
And postscript printer that can be accessed over the network can be used. The
new Window Server for 2.0 can build bitmaps at any resolution (not just the
92/300/400 that 1.0 could do.) So now it is possible, in theory, to be able
to generate a bitmap and send it to any printer. I would like to see this
done, that would be a really nice feature.
I hope this is true. I haven't verified this with NeXT yet, but this would
be great if it's true. If so, it would imply that the silly Adobe liscensing
restriction (re. resolutions and output devices you can use) has been
removed - Jay
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>If LaserJet IIs are supported does that mean DeskJets will work too?
From: agm@cs.brown.edu
Well, it is not too difficult to through a bitmap to the printer. The
only problem is that the PostScript license by Adobe won't permit you
to do printouts of greater than 150dpi on non-postscript printers. A
150dpi printer driver is available on the net. Anything beyond that
resolution is possible, but ...
From: jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU
All I know is that if they can print postscript (with HP Postscript
cartridges) then they can be used with a NeXT.
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>For non-NeXT PostScript printers: does the PostScript code get sent to the
>printer, or is the image rasterized internally and sent out as a bitmap?
Summary: For non-NeXT postscript printers the postscript code is sent, not
a bitmap, whether the printer is connected to a serial port or ethernet.
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>Are the slabs more tollerant of the brand, version, etc of hard drive
>that is connected than the 030 cubes were?
From: agm@cs.brown.edu
They are all tolerant. If you use a non-supported drive, it means that
you will give the drive specifications yourself. Buying third party
drives will save you quite a bit of money.
From: jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU
I don't know. I have a Wren V in my 030 cube at home and that is all that
I have had experience with.
These two responses (along with the other postings I've seen on the net)
haven't satisfied my curiosity. At the moment there's not enough people in
net-land who've hooked a third-party drive up to a system running release
2.0 of the OS. Before I buy a drive I'm going to try to talk to some folks
at NeXT, and even then I'll probably wait until people in net land start
getting their new machines, so that I can get some advice/opinions from
"real" people who are using slabs. - Jay
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>If a hard drive provides internal support for multiple partitions (I think
>that's built into the SCSI protocol somehow, and not just implemented in
>software like on a PC) will the NeXT take advantage of them? Will
>BuildDisk let me set up the partitions or do I need to do that on a Mac.
>The reason I'm interested in this is that I don't want to have to mount
>an entire 330 or 660 MB drive all at the same point.
From: agm@cs.brown.edu
You are free to use partitions - normally two. You'll need to have
taken a Math 001 course to and change an entry in the 'etc/disktab'
file, the same file you need to change in question 4.
My comment from the previous question applies here too. - Jay
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>Is a full complement of manuals included in the base $3300 price tag
>(or whatever your school sells 'em for), or are manuals separate. If the
>latter, are man-pages complete enough that one could print the full set
>of manuals (given enough paper :-) I'm particularly interested in
>programmer's docs here, not something that tells me what the OK button
>in the print dialog does.
From: agm@cs.brown.edu
The ':-)' is essential: you'll have on-line documentation (>80MB). If
you want a printout of the technical documentation, it is about $90 at
the moment. You may, however, print everything out yourself...
From: cyliao@hardy.u.washington.edu
nope, but you can get the full version of software release 2
free anyway (you may have to pay media fee though)
From: jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU
What is a full complement? Would that include the NBIC programmers manual?
No, I doubt it. The only manuals that come with the base slab would be the
software manuals for the NeXT software and manuals on how to set up the
machine ("User Manuals" as NeXT refers to them in the price sheets.)
The NeXT Tech Docs (version 2.0) cost $95. A nice discount from the $250
that was charged for 1.0 docs.
From: kuszewsk@hamilton.biology.yale.edu
No, at least in version 1.0. You want the Programmer's Reference Guide, and
it's about $100 extra. The man pages and Digital Librarian collections
include the table of contents for this book (two 500-page volumes) but not
enough from which to one can work.
My local NeXT-rep says that with the extended edition of the system you get
all of the tech docs on line too, but then I'm not sure whether I should
believe him more than someone else. - Jay
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>I've seen this asked before, but I haven't seen an answer yet. I need
>to be able to hook up a modem to be able to talk to local mainframes, etc.
>I'm not talking about telneting or ftp, just stupid, boring modems like
>you use on a PC.
From: agm@cs.brown.edu
Nobody answered because nobody saw a problem. Yes, you can connect a
modem. Kermit will solve all your problems when it comes to communication.
From: cyliao@hardy.u.washington.edu
Sure you can, I just use the Terminal(that comes with NeXT, which
does some sort of VT100 emulation. Then I have kermit compiled
on my NeXT so I just run kermit from terminal. There's a better
vt100, a shareware though, called stuart. I think it's like $40
or so.
From: jasmerb@mist.CS.ORST.EDU
I use a Hayes compat Supra 2400 baud modem from home and it works just
fine. I had to get and compile kermit for my NeXT and had to muck around
a little bit but it wasn't too bad. I plan on buying Microphone II once
it comes out, that will give me a nice interface and give me several
different transfer modes (xmodem, ymodem, zmodem, etc.)
From: kuszewsk@hamilton.biology.yale.edu
Yes. We have some cubes with 2400-baud modems in our lab (for rebooting our
Stellar from home when it crashes :-). We use a program called Communicae
from Active Ingredients to run them. It works fine.
I've seen postings recently that say that Stuart is included in 2.0, but
I don't know whether that's the standard or extended distribution - Jay
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This and the following questions are from Ajay Shah:
>Can one just pick up the machine, plug it into a wall
>outlet (this is LA) and be up and running? (No ethernet in
>the picture)
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
Yup, take the machine, run the power cable to the plug, the cable to
the monitor, and the cables to the keyboard and the mouse, and you
should be ready to turn her own and go.
From: scott@gac.edu
Yes. In fact, that's alot easier than doing it with ethernet.
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
Yes, but get a surge protector, just to be extra safe.
My NeXT has run fine at home for the past year (Westwood).
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
Yeah, but would you trust an expensive piece of equipment to raw
SCE power? When I lived in the area I picked up a good power
paranoia box (not a cheapo surge protector either) from Eagle
Electronics in Glendale. You don't need an Ethernet... unless
you want to do Real Work on a 105MB machine.
I would think surge protection is a must. When somebody tells me their
got fried by the AC the first thing I ask them is whether or not they
they had surge protector. If not then they get laughed at, if so they get
my condolences (sp?). The latter has never happened yet, the former has
happened a lot. I would probably be wise to by a UPS instead of a surge
protector, because UN*X machines can really get their file systems screwed
up if you don't go through a proper shut down (by the way: is there a way
to tell the kernel to automagically to a sync once a second. If all you can
tell me is to do it with cron then don't bother to reply). - Jay
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>I'm too broke to go for anything > the basic 105M
>configuration. What is the software I get bundled with
>that? Word has it that NeXT gives you the rest of the
>software on floppy "at a nominal cost". What is that?
>$50? $100? or more like $250?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
$195. You don't get the development environment, Shakespeare, TeX, or
the Oxford Dictionary of quotations. If you can live w/o the
development environment (which is the main stuff), then you'll be fine.
From: scott@gac.edu
Well, the problem is that NeXT apps are bigger (much) than PC apps. But,
you can get the extended apps for the price of gas to get to some nearby
school that's willing to transfer for you, or to get to your NeXT
rep.
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
Oh dear. Standalone machines ALWAYS need more stuff--more
expensive stuff--than networked machines. [You basically get] a
run-time system. No software development stuff, no Emacs, no
Shakespeare. You have a license for everything though.
You get the liscence to the extended release. You can buy it on floppies for
the cost of the floppies (about $200), or you could copy from someone for
free (from another owner, from ftp (if available), etc). My local NeXT rep
told me that when I get an external drive that I could just bring it out
to his machine, hook the drive up, and just copy the whole thing over.
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>(I don't mind shuffling applications up and down floppy for starters!)
Summary of responses from many people: Yes you will mind. - Jay
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>Can I just add RAM bought off the street anytime (open
>the box myself, i.e.)? 4M SIMMs go for $225 bux each these
>days.
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
Yup, that's why they are SIMMs. Suggestion. Buy your NeXT with 8mb
(1mb SIMMs), wait until you GET the machine, then sell your 1mb SIMMs
and buy 16MB of 4MB SIMMs. The price by the time you get your machine
should be under $200 I would think, and having 16MB should really help
out as far as swapping is concerned.
From: scott@gac.edu
Most Mac SIMMS work fine (I know of none that haven't). Remember, you
must purchase in banks of 4 SIMMs, though (so you can get 4M in 1M SIMMS,
or 16M in 4M simms.)
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
Yes; but you need to add in groups of 4 chips, due to the interleaving.
So, your minimal upgrade is to add 4x1MB
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
Oh, probably. NeXT uses Toshiba chips... you can use others,
but the 4-megs are a bit bigger than the 1-megs so you'll have
to verify that they'll fit.
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>How portable is non-graphics C written on NeXT: the
>target machines are SPARC and PC.
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
Should be fine. MACH is 4.3BSD compatible. There might be some
things that you need to tailor for the various machines, but #ifdef's
can do that for ya easily enough I should think.
From: scott@gac.edu
Quite. Well, portable from SPARC to NeXT. PC, that's another story,
but if you start on the NeXT and don't use Unix, you should be alright.
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
No problems I've heard of.
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
I haven't had any problems.
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>What about breakdowns and repairs? How unreliable is it?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
The OD's have been pretty bad, mainly because of dust problems. One
guy I'm talking to is on his fourth OD. But as far as everything else
in concerned, I haven't heard of any problems.
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
The optical disk was the least reliable part---but you don't have that
problem :-)
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
The only problems we've had have been with the Canon optical
drives--which NeXT is no longer pushing on customers, although
they will sell them to you if you really insist. Other than
that, the NeXTs have been incredibly reliable.
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>How much is the free warranty period and how much does a
>year of support cost? What are the terms of the support
>contract?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
It's a standard one year warranty, it doesn't cost anything.
Don't know [about additional support].
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>Is there a /bin/f77 ?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
You can buy one, actually, you can buy an object oriented Fortran.
There isn't a standard fortran included. There might be a public
domain one you can get.
From: scott@gac.edu
There's a Fortran to C converter. I think it's disgusting. Then again,
I think Fortran is disgusting :-)
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
No! Options: buy the f77 compiler from Absoft, $800; use f2c f77 -> C
translator, use the ``atom'' command, that converts Sun3 binaries to
NeXT-runnable binaries (I don't know if this will work on the new machines)
and compile on Suns.
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
No. There is a free fortran-to-C translator available on the net
that seems to work. Absoft has a commercial fortran compiler.
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>How does one add a 2400 baud modem to the machine? Buy
>an external modem and plug into a serial port?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
Yup, but I don't know specifics. Folks have done it, and the new
machines correctly handle the serial port. The old one didn't at all.
From: scott@gac.edu
Go external. That's what I'm working on right now. I've got a 2400B
Practical Peripherals, but would rather go for 9600+ something or other :-)
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
Yes. Then use kermit, or tip. (Instructions for tip are in an
early edition of BuzzNUG newsletter, available at internet archives.)
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
You got it. We use MultiTechs here for our "low-end" modems.
Of course, if you want an *appropriate* modem for a non-networked
home machine, I'd suggest a Telebit 2500. I recently purchased
one for $899. (What's sad is that if you could get affordable
data circuits from the phone company, a pair of channel units can
be had for less than that and you could be networked at home.)
2400 is s-l-o-w after you've been blasting bits at 18Kb (without
compression).
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>USC bookstore doesn't sound like a very NeXT-intensive
>place. Does that matter? Can I just buy direct from
>NeXT?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
Not sure, but you should be able to get the minimal discount (around
20% off), which isn't too nice against the best (40% or so).
From: scott@gac.edu
Cheaper through the bookstore. From NeXT, you get it for $3995, I'm
sure.
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
Yes, but you'll pay about $700 more direct. Go with USC.
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>What else: any hassles/glitches/worries/costs?
From: asd%mace.cc.purdue.edu@usc.edu
Nope, just pure pleasure! :) Well, maybe not that simple, but hey,
I'm sure someone else can tell ya about some of that stuff.
From: scott@gac.edu
You miss alot of homework and classes because you're farting around with
the computer . . . :-)
From: barry@math.ucla.edu
delivery delays?
From: eps%toaster.SFSU.EDU@usc.edu
Don't skimp. Don't skimp on RAM, don't skip on disk space.
Let's get real: machine performance is going to SUCK with less
than 16MB RAM, and a 340MB disk is the minimum I'd suggest for a
standalone machine.
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I hope that this is of use to some people (I had several requests for a
summary.
----
Jay Finger
Computer Science and Engineering, University of Texas at Arlington
b645zai@utarlg.utarl.edu