smh@rduxb.UUCP (henning) (09/05/85)
**** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA rduxb!smh > If you had the power to save lives, would you do it? You and I do have that > power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death > inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. Apparently seat belts with shoulder harneses are safer since they protect against multiple impacts where an air bag would deflate, they protect against lateral forces where an air bag does nothing, and they can be used more than once. The part I like about belts and shoulder harnesses is that they hold the passengers in their seats if I have to brake hard, and hold me in my seat when I take curves on 2 wheels ( in my Volvo).
pz@emacs.uucp (Paul Czarnecki) (09/06/85)
Followups to net.auto, that is where this belongs. (If I did the headers wrong I apologize, somebody please tell me how to do that) In article <2778@harpo.UUCP> jad@harpo.UUCP (jad) writes: > > If you had the power to save lives, would you do it? You and I do have that > power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death > inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. oh give me a break... Lets make our highways safer through education not legislation. o Teach people to use the safety devices already in their cars. yes, I mean seatbelts. (Notice I said teach, not force) o Teach people to use alcohol in a responsible manner. Severly punish offenders. Vehicular is only an adjective in front of homicide. o Teach people how to drive. - proper use of brakes, accelerator, and steering for accident avoidance. - proper use of turn signals. - proper following distances. - proper use of headlights. o Teach people that absolute speed does not kill. Variations in speed, unexpected events (sudden accelerations, deccelerations), incapacitated drivers, and adverse weather conditions all contribute to highway deaths. o Teach people that 55mph on a major artery on a clear day is too slow. o Teach people that 55mph on a major artery on a rainy, or snowy day (or night) is too FAST. o Teach people that LEFT to PASS, makes sense. Not following this unfortunately forces some people to weave creating a hazardous situation. > We are deprived of air bags by the opposing efforts of the powerful > auto industry. If you want one so much why not go down to your local Mercedes dealer and buy a car equipped with one. What? you don't have $50,000? Neither do I, but the parts from the parts department and have them retro-fitted to your car. It shouldn't cost more than a couple of thousand dollars. If you think that these air-bags are so perfect why should be willing to spend a few thou to save your life. Just sell you VCR, stereo, and start eating hamburger helper. That is, of course, only if you think that your life is worth it. Use Free Marker Pressure. Write to GM, Ford, and Chrylser and say you want optional airbags in cars. *I* want OPTIONAL air bags in cars. I don't want one in my car. When I have been hit, I don't want an explosion in my face. I want control of my vehicle so I can try to prevent the next strike. WEAR YOUR SEATBELTS! > Safety experts claim that each year air bags would prevent thousands of > deaths and prevent hundreds of thousands of serious injuries. Shouldn't you have said "Some safety experts..." Some will disagree with you. Air bags only work in a limited number of accident situations. After being triggered in the accident that provide NO FURTHER PROTECTION during the accident. (If you have an accident on the highway, odds are you will bounce a long way) Witness Rick Mears' (professional race driver) accident last year when he hit a guardrail at ~200mph. He is racing again this year. He had a full 6 point racing harness on (fancy seatbelt). Witness Pat Bedard's horrible accident at Indy two races ago. His car flipped over several times and was completely shredded. He survived because of his seatbelt, he did not have an airbag. Pat suffered some minor brain damage in this accident. Minor in that he can still function normally, but he feels that his sense of balance is slightly off. He has decided not to race again for the safety of the other drivers. Witness Shirley Muldonney's (spelling?) accident years ago... Need I go on? None of these drivers had air bags. Seatbelts were sufficient in these ultra high speed accidents. Maybe I'm cruel and heartless, but I consider highway deaths in which seatbelts were not use to be suicides. -- Paul Czarnecki Uniworks decvax!{wanginst!infinet, cca}!emacs!pz 20 William Street emacs!pz@cca-unix.ARPA Wellesley, MA 02181 (617) 235-2600
john@gcc-bill.ARPA (John Allred) (09/06/85)
In article <2778@harpo.UUCP> jad@harpo.UUCP (jad) writes: > > If you had the power to save lives, would you do it? You and I do have that > power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death > inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. We are > deprived of air bags by the opposing efforts of the powerful auto industry. > Safety experts claim that each year air bags would prevent thousands of > deaths and prevent hundreds of thousands of serious injuries. A chorus of > voices raised in unison and directed at our representatives would have a > great impact. Please write. No endeavor is more important nor more noble > than to save lives. > Usage of seat belts would save those very same thousands of lives, and then some. Air bags are, at best, marginally effective. They offer *no* protection against side and rear end collisions. Also, if you have a secondary collision, the air bag has already deflated, and your head goes *bash* against the wind- shield. And, the biggest problem of all: air bags *don't* keep you in the car. Far and away, the quickest way to die in an auto accident is to get thrown out of the car. I have very little sympathy for people who don't use seatbelts who get injured or killed in an accident. Their own stupidity killed them, not the auto manufactures failure to supply air bags. And if these same idiots fail to buckle up their kids, and the kids get killed,the parents should be prosecuted for manslaughter, or perhaps murder. -- John Allred General Computer Company uucp: seismo!harvard!gcc-bill!john
djb@riccb.UUCP (Dave J. Burris ) (09/08/85)
> In article <2778@harpo.UUCP> jad@harpo.UUCP (jad) writes: > > > > If you had the power to save lives, would you do it? You and I do have that > > power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death > > inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. We are > > deprived of air bags by the opposing efforts of the powerful auto industry. > > Safety experts claim that each year air bags would prevent thousands of > > deaths and prevent hundreds of thousands of serious injuries. A chorus of > > voices raised in unison and directed at our representatives would have a > > great impact. Please write. No endeavor is more important nor more noble > > than to save lives. > > The statistics for Labor Day weekend were recently released for Illinois and are not all that surprising. The number of highway deaths was the lowest for the same period in 41 years. This has been attributed to two things. The recently instated seat belt law and the crackdown on drunken driving. Granted, this does not necessarily prove anything but it does indicate that there might be a connection. My position is this: IF YOU ARE TO STUPID AND STUBBORN TO USE SAFETY BELTS IN LIGHT OF THE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE EFFECTIVE IN REDUCING TRAFFIC FATALITIES THEN DON'T CRY TO ME ABOUT HOW YOU WANT TO FORCE THE FINANCIAL BURDEN OF AIR BAGS ON EVERYONE. THE PRICE OF NEW CARS IS ALREADY SUCH THAT MANY ARE LIMITED TO BUYING MUCH LESS SAFE USED CARS. IF YOU WANT AIR BAGS THEN BUY THEM BUT MAKE THEM OPTIONAL. ALSO if you are still not going to wear safety belts then you are asking for trouble. -- Dave Burris ..!ihnp4!ihopa!riccb!djb Rockwell Switching Systems, Downers Grove, Il.
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (09/09/85)
In article <150@emacs.uucp>, pz@emacs.uucp (Paul Czarnecki) writes: > o Teach people that 55mph on a major artery on a clear day is > too slow. >-- > > Paul Czarnecki > Uniworks decvax!{wanginst!infinet, cca}!emacs!pz > 20 William Street emacs!pz@cca-unix.ARPA > Wellesley, MA 02181 (617) 235-2600 O.K., who's game enough to teach that to Congress first? (Yeh, I bet most Congresscritters speed, too :-). I've seen so much fulmination about 55mph-- so why not bombard Congress with letters, letters, letters.... (they pay the most attention to long handwritten ones, so I hear, none of this chintzy printout stuff or sign your name to the coupon stuff). As soon as we decide to abide by only SOME of the laws, we become either hypocrites or "civil diso- bedients." If the latter, we should be prepared to accept the consequences if we get caught, no complaining (a la the Black civil rights movement). Many Congressional districts are represented in the sundry USENET sites--so fire up those olde analogue pens and tell your Congresscritter that you want the restrictions on federal highway funding based on the state's speed limit enforcement REMOVED. Congress passed the law, and it can remove it. Of course be sure to tune up your car so it gets better mileage at 70 mph than 55 mph so that we don't run out of fuel sooner! -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer, my pets, my plants, my boss, or the | at&t computer systems division | s.a. of any computer upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy or: ..!ihnp4!iheds!ttbcad!levy
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) (09/11/85)
> If you had the power to save lives, would you do it? You and I do have that > power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death > inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. Typically this flame comes up every six months or so in net.auto (where it belongs, and all followups to this will go there only). I for one do NOT WANT to have safety regulations FORCED on me. The cost and breakability of cars is already at a ridiculously high level (unaffordable for many). Air bags are one more multi-hundred dollar option, with high technology that I probably cannot repair myself should it malfunction, that would help drive the price of that new car out of my reach should they be mandated by legislation. I know people are going to say it would save on insurance, and no doubt it would; but I have no doubt that the insurance companies would lag far behind in lowering rates, in terms of both time and the real cost saving. Another profit for car manufacturers and insurance companies. I for one am willing to risk doing without it. If you aren't, then order an airbag on YOUR car, but please do not force your opinion onto others through legislation. --Greg
dca@edison.UUCP (David C. Albrecht) (09/11/85)
> If you had the power to save lives, would you do it? You and I do have that > power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death > inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. The question is would I save the life of someone that has the power to save it themselves and refuses to do so. It seems to me they are making a personal decision that the amount of accident protection a seat belt gives them is not worth the minor hassle of putting it on. The advantages of seat belts are well publicized and well documented. Providing people with a safe and reliable means to protect themselves is good. Replacing or augmenting that means with a limited usefulness method simply because people refuse to use the first means I think is a bit silly. We cannot be big brother to the entire population, keep them from doing stupid things, taking risks, indulging in dangerous activities. We all have to live with the consequences of our actions. I would bet that most of the people that died in car accidents if they had been given the choice of car with air bags and one without would have chosen the cheaper car (i.e. the one without air bags). I find effective, easy to use safety tools an admirable goal. Protecting people who don't feel compelled to protect themselves and penalizing those who do take the care smacks to much of big brother. You might try reading "The Humanoids" a book by Jack Williamson some time if you wish to see the idea taken to extremes. David Albrecht
moroney@jon.DEC (Mike Moroney) (09/16/85)
>The propellent used to deploy air bags so quickly is explosive. It may >also be carcinogenic. If I ever have to buy a car with air bags in it, I >will remove them and mail these gizmos to my congreesman. Not only that, but think what will happen when all those cars start showing up at junkyards. Each junkyard will be a toxic waste disaster in the making. -Mike P.S. One way of getting people to buckle up in your car is buy a convertible! I have a couple of friends who dislike seatbelts and only buckle up where required by law, but they will ALWAYS buckle up in my car, even in the back seat! I guess you realize how vulnerable you are. It's not because of my driving, either (These guys are terrors behind the wheel though).
sukenick@ccnysci.UUCP (09/19/85)
[][][][][][][][][] >> power. On this day and at this moment, people are being smashed to death >> inside their cars when their lives could be preserved by air bags. > >Apparently seat belts with shoulder harneses are safer since they protect >against multiple impacts where an air bag would deflate, they protect >against lateral forces where an air bag does nothing, and they can be Also, air bags are not very effective UNLESS you also wear seatbelts. Without seatbelts, you tend to slip under the air bag in a crash. - GDS
dkatz@zaphod.UUCP (Dave Katz) (09/21/85)
In article <150@emacs.uucp> pz@emacs.UUCP (Paul Czarnecki) writes: >... > >Witness Rick Mears' (professional race driver) ... > >Witness Pat Bedard's horrible accident at Indy two races ago. ... > >... > >Need I go on? None of these drivers had air bags. Seatbelts were >sufficient in these ultra high speed accidents. > While I generally agree with the points which Paul makes in his posting, I don't think it is fair to reference to the accidents of Mears or Bedard. The cars which these guys drive are specially designed to literally disintegrate in an accident. The pieces that fly off all act to reduce the impact to the driver by carrying away some of the momentum. Only the inside structural protection to the driver is supposed to remain undamaged. That is why you see great hunks of hardware, and wheels and the like going in every direction. While this is a good idea (most of the time) in professional racing, I'm not sure one would really want it in the middle of rush hour traffic. What I mean to say is YES - SEAT BELTS CAN SAVE LIVES, but don't use such special cases as proof.
john@gcc-bill.ARPA (John Allred) (10/05/85)
In article <350@zaphod.UUCP> dkatz@zaphod.UUCP (Dave Katz) writes: >In article <150@emacs.uucp> pz@emacs.UUCP (Paul Czarnecki) writes: >>... >> >>Witness Rick Mears' (professional race driver) ... >> >>Witness Pat Bedard's horrible accident at Indy two races ago. ... >> >>Need I go on? None of these drivers had air bags. Seatbelts were >>sufficient in these ultra high speed accidents. >> > > (various comments on how Indy car accidents are not a good comparison) > >What I mean to say is YES - SEAT BELTS CAN SAVE LIVES, but don't use >such special cases as proof. Well, here's a different kind of proof. I am a Texas EMT and volunteer fireman. Of all the nasty accidents I've had to work, I, as the police always say, "have never unbuckled a dead person." -- John Allred General Computer Company uucp: seismo!harvard!gcc-bill!john