alandail@applelink.apple.com (Alan Dail) (10/16/90)
People keep suggesting that instead of getting a Mac emulator for the NeXT, to simply get a NeXT and a Macintosh Classic. This does not help, as MPW takes too long to compile MacApp apps on a Mac IIfx. Currently, there are many people, such as myself, that make their living programming the Macintosh and cannot simply sell their Macintosh to buy a NeXT. I would love to have a NeXT, but it is simply not feasible to own two loaded systems (2 big monitors, 2 big hard disks, 2 CD-ROM drives, 2 laser printers, etc). If Macintosh could run as a task on the NeXT, supporting MPW and compiled MacApp code, then I could justify selling my entire Mac system and purchashing a NeXT, saving money and drastically lowering my compile time at the same time. I would even be willing to buy a MacPlus or MacClassic to get ROMs from for an emulator. I am sure that their are many others who would do the same. One thing that troubles me though, is software for the NeXT seems to cost 2-3 times more that comperable Mac software. Also, I would like to ask people who have used both systems extensively, how does the NeXT compare to the Macintosh as an end user machine? i.e., which is better at being "the computer for the rest of us"? thanks, Alan Dail-- Alan Dail NASA/Langley Research Center ALANDAIL@applelink.apple.com
glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) (10/17/90)
In article <1990Oct16.125905.18833@abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov> alandail@applelink.apple.com (Alan Dail) writes: > One thing that troubles me though, is software for the NeXT seems >to cost 2-3 times more that comperable Mac software. Not true. Adobe Illustrator will sell at exactly the same retail price as on the Macintosh. Lotus Improv is about $595 (from memory). WordPerfect is $495. FrameMaker is $995. TouchType, our product, is $249. LightHouse's Diagram! is $249. Stone Design's TextArt is $375. There is plenty of affordable software, and most of the software is being priced at "PC" prices, not at workstation prices. There is plenty of very expensive software on the Macintosh, too. -- Glenn Reid RightBrain Software glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us PostScript/NeXT developers ..{adobe,next}!heaven!glenn 415-851-1785
scott@nic.gac.edu (10/17/90)
glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) writes: >In article <1990Oct16.125905.18833@abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov> alandail@applelink.apple.com (Alan Dail) writes: >> One thing that troubles me though, is software for the NeXT seems >>to cost 2-3 times more that comperable Mac software. > >Adobe Illustrator will sell at exactly the same retail price as on the >Macintosh. Lotus Improv is about $595 (from memory). WordPerfect is >$495. FrameMaker is $995. TouchType, our product, is $249. >LightHouse's Diagram! is $249. Stone Design's TextArt is $375. > >There is plenty of affordable software, and most of the software is >being priced at "PC" prices, not at workstation prices. There is >plenty of very expensive software on the Macintosh, too. Yes, this is what I've been telling people who complain about the high prices of NeXT software as opposed to PC/Mac stuff. The problem really isn't that the software out there is priced higher than PC stuff - it's just that there aren't many low-priced vendors in the NeXT market, yet. Most of them are larger companies, who sell larger packages for larger prices, be their market PC, Mac, Unix, or NeXT. Part of the reason for this, of course, is that the NeXT already provides alot of the functionality of the cheap PC/Mac software. When I worked on PCs, the cheap software I used was stuff like Turbo {Pascal,C}, Sidekick, ARC, etc. These are all not really needed on the NeXT, or at least, most parts are not needed (an appointment calendar would be nice, and 2.0 has a pretty nice looking one in the Demos directory). Take each area and compare. It's going to be tough for a cheap language vendor to break in, because he/she/it will have to interface with the amazing stuff already in there to be even an option. A _real_ Pascal which doesn't give access to NextStep is not a viable development platform for the NeXT, and thus will not be wide-spread. Same with any other language environment. Yet, this access would be hard to provide, because there's so much in there. How about word processors: What cheap word processor provides enough more capability than WriteNow that you would buy it? Not many - you have to go into the $x00, x>2 range to get this. All those desk accessories and TSRs are sort of silly, and what functionality they provide is being filled in in PD, anyway (well, ShareWare, too, of course). What is needed, I'll admit, is a decent spreedsheet, and database program. Sybase is too remote for general use. Something small/quick, can use Sybase, but doesn't force you to look at it, would be nice. Improv, while it sounds quite amazing, would be way too much for my spreedsheet needs. Then again, I can't think of what those needs would be, right off-hand. Well, same with the database, I guess. I just store my data in a straight text file, and use awk, etc, to add stuff up when I need it. Because that's about all I need. Maybe we need to complain _specifically_, rather than in general. Saying "NeXT software is too expensive" just doesn't cut it. Stuart is cheap. IWScript is cheap. Cassandra is cheap. That's all NeXT software. Say, rather, "NeXT spreedsheet programs are too expensive, while this neat program X on the PC does what I need, and is cheap", so that we can reply more precisely (or go out and start working on a ShareWare program). scott hess scott@gac.edu Independent NeXT Developer (Stuart) NeXT Campus Consultant (Not much, really) GAC Undergrad (Horrid. Simply Horrid. I mean the work!) <I still speak for nobody>
dd26+@andrew.cmu.edu (Douglas F. DeJulio) (10/19/90)
scott@nic.gac.edu writes: > What is needed, I'll admit, is a decent spreedsheet, and database > program. I use the "sc" spreadsheet on several different Unix systems, including some NeXT machines that I telnet into. It uses curses as it stands now. No point-and-click, but it's a full spreadsheet and should run reasonably in a huge terminal window (I often use it at 132x66 characters). Perhaps a NeXT Step UI could be thrown on to it. Maybe I'll try after my Slab is delivered. -- Doug DeJulio dd26@andrew.cmu.edu