a577@mindlink.UUCP (Curt Sampson) (10/18/90)
> cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu writes: > > Here's one thing you can't get a Mac+software to do for under > $3000.00: hook it onto the net and read and write to this very > newsgroup. And you should be reading comp.sys.mac anyway. > Take it on over there. Really? I find this tough to believe. You can do this exact same thing for less than a thousand dollars with an IBM PC clone. There's at least four UUCP/news packages freely distributed for the IBM. I know the exact point at which *I* fell in love with the NeXT. I went to a computer show a week or two ago and played with one for a bit. I thought it was a fairly nifty implementation of the a "mousy" thingie, and I liked having all that real estate on the screen. (The small Macs make me feel quite claustrophobic now.) Then I clicked on this icon of a termainal and it brought up a large window with a lovely '$' at the bottom. I typed 'vi' and I was in heaven. (No jokes about me being a sicko for liking vi, please. :-)) cjs -- Curt_Sampson@mindlink.UUCP (Vancouver, B.C., Canada) {uunet|ubc-cs}!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Curt_Sampson Data: (604) 687-6736 Curt_Sampson@p0.f740.n153.z1.fidonet.org Voice: (604) 687-3227
agm@cs.brown.edu (Axel Merk) (10/18/90)
The "real" world loves imperfection - if they hear 'Lotus', they are more likely to buy a NeXT. If they find out, after a while, that the NeXT is a great machine, it's a plus. Yes, this is sad, but if the success of NeXT partly depends on Lotus, why shouldn't we encourage the "big-ones" to produce software for the NeXT? The world does not go for the best, but what's best marketable. NeXT is not appropriately praised by the 'leading' computer magazines because everybody is afraid of the competition of a machine that already does everything. The industry prefers if you pay $13000 for Apple equipment to get the same you would get for $4000 for a NeXT - there are more companies involved in selling the Apple equipment, thus more sources push the product. Axel Disclaimer: This should not discourage anyone to work on excellent products. It's simply a sad fact. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Axel Merk "One needs a certain amount of blindness -- -- agm@cs.brown.edu to see perfection" - Christopher Nuzum -- -- phone/fax (401)272 2262 Brown University Box 53 Providence RI 02912 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) (10/18/90)
In article <53667@brunix.UUCP>, agm@cs.brown.edu (Axel Merk) writes: |>The world does not go for the best, but what's best marketable. NeXT |>is not appropriately praised by the 'leading' computer magazines |>because everybody is afraid of the competition of a machine that |>already does everything. The industry prefers if you pay $13000 for |>Apple equipment to get the same you would get for $4000 for a NeXT - |>there are more companies involved in selling the Apple equipment, thus |>more sources push the product. Perhaps this belongs in alt.conspiracy -- i.e., the folks at the magazines are plotting to keep folks buying the high cost equipment rather than a NeXT. I very much doubt if this is the case. More likely a reviewer simply likes best a machine that a) they are used to and b) does what they want to do. There are two other things wrong with your argument, also: o The price you quote for Apple equipment is for the very top of the line equipment, and even then looks like "list" price. o You seem to assume the NeXT can, right now, do everything the users want to do. First of all, I can get a perfectly respectable Mac to do lots of things for under $3000, including software. Yep, I don't get all the bundled stuff I get on my NeXT, but many people don't need all that stuff, and what software I do have to buy is MUCH cheaper on the Mac. That price is a big consideration for people who don't need to do lots (if they are using their machine just do word processing, an occasional illustration, and maybe an infrequently-used spreadsheet) or for the home market. Furthermore, right now, there is a lot more choice of what software to buy on the Mac. There are many things I can do on a Mac that I can't yet do on a NeXT. NeXT doesn't yet have a MacProject, a MacinTax, a MacProof, SimCity (I think games are important), educational software (important for many parts of the home market) and so forth. The bottom line: if I were buying a computer in the next six months I wouldn't be buying a NeXT. (I hope to hold off buying a machine for a couple of years, by which point I hope this will have changed.) Jim Mann Stratus Computer jmann@es.stratus.com
cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) (10/19/90)
In article <2779@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes: >First of all, I can get a perfectly respectable Mac to do lots of things >for under $3000, including software. Here's one thing you can't get a Mac+software to do for under $3000.00: hook it onto the net and read and write to this very newsgroup. And you should be reading comp.sys.mac anyway. Take it on over there. -- Chuck Herrick cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu
alandail@applelink.apple.com (Alan Dail) (10/19/90)
In article <9303@helios.TAMU.EDU>, cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) writes: > Here's one thing you can't get a Mac+software to do for under > $3000.00: hook it onto the net and read and write to this very > newsgroup. And you should be reading comp.sys.mac anyway. > Take it on over there. You sure can read this newsgroup with a Macintosh as that is how I am reading it now. There is a program called TCP/Connect II that has FTP, TELNET, NEWS & MAIL (although mail requires a POP server to receive mail). This software does not even require ethernet on the mac, only an AppleTalk to ethernet gatway somewhere on the network. So, you can read NEWS with a $999 Macintosh Classic. Why do you think Mac users shouldn't read comp.sys.next. Don't you think that a lot of mac users are greatly interested in the NeXT. After all, Steve Jobs is the father of both systems. Personally, as a mac user since 1984, I am very interested in NeXT. As a programmer, I am very impressed with interface builder. NeXT is the first computer I've seen since the Mac was introduced that I am would consider giving up my mac for. I am also, very impressed with price of the NeXTStation 105 relative to Macintosh prices. However, you cant develop software with this configuration, and it costs $2000 to get 235 megabytes more disk space. Also, I still think 3rd party products are expensive compaired to Macintosh. This is especially suprising since Interface Builder cuts development time in half. Here are some examples from the fall catalog. cube floppy 1.4 $795 (and I though Apple charged a lot for a floppy disk) WingZ $699 Adobe Plus Pack $495 (are they crazy, this one doesn't even require any work to develop the NeXT version) FORTRAN $995 Modula-2 $495 Alan-- Alan Dail NASA/Langley Research Center ALANDAIL@applelink.apple.com
asd@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth) (10/19/90)
In <1990Oct19.135753.21624@abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov> alandail@applelink.apple.com (Alan Dail) writes: >Also, I still think 3rd party products are expensive compaired to Macintosh. >This is especially suprising since Interface Builder cuts development time >in half. Here are some examples from the fall catalog. >cube floppy 1.4 $795 (and I though Apple charged a lot for a floppy disk) Uh, not to flame you, but there are 4 (?) floppy drives at LEAST in the catalog. This is one of the more expensive. The PLI 2.88MB drive (I think this is probably the same one NeXT uses, or at least it does the same) is $495 I do believe. Still, a bit expensive, but you are getting more than the other at least, and more capacity than Apple drives too. I just wish the darn thing, and NeXT's drive, would read/write Apple formatted disks too! >FORTRAN $995 You should checked out COBOL! ~$2000 -k
gore@eecs.nwu.edu (Jacob Gore) (10/20/90)
/ comp.sys.next / jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) / Oct 19, 1990 / > Great! We get a product on the NeXT that should help to draw the business > world to the machine and we have people who want to drive them out! Improv > should help NeXT sell lots of machines. I'd like to see this happen. But two of Lotus's teammates in the look-and-feel game, Apple and Xerox, are trying to do the same with window systems as Lotus with spreadsheets. You think you're supporting NeXT, while you're undermining NeXTstep. Jacob -- Jacob Gore jacob@gore.com boulder!gore!jacob
geoff@circus.camex.com (Geoffrey Knauth) (10/21/90)
Does anyone know why the NeXT floppy drive cannot read/write Macintosh
disks? Is this a problem that will go away soon?
Geoffrey S. Knauth geoff@camex.com
Camex, Inc., 75 Kneeland St. geoff%camex@uunet.uu.net
Boston, MA 02111, (617) 426-3577 x451 --standard disclaimers--smithw@hamblin.math.byu.edu (Wild Willy) (10/21/90)
geoff@circus.camex.com (Geoffrey Knauth) writes: >Does anyone know why the NeXT floppy drive cannot read/write Macintosh >disks? Is this a problem that will go away soon? I understand that this is being worked on and that two(at least) of the third-party floppy makers have promised to have the software done for this RSN. Those who bought DIT drives are supposed to get free upgrades. Don't know about the PLI drives. Since the PLI mechanism is the same as the NeXT drive, you could buy the software from them. However, I also hear that NeXT will offer a similar upgrade 1Q '91. There are also plans to offer a faster version of the cpu in 2Q '91, provided the silicon is done. NeXT has one of the few *working* 50 MHz 68040's to play with. > Geoffrey S. Knauth geoff@camex.com > Camex, Inc., 75 Kneeland St. geoff%camex@uunet.uu.ne> >Boston, MA 02111, (617) 426-3577 x451 --standard disclaimers-- -Bill -- ____________________ Bill Smith____________________. EMail: smithw@hamblin.math.byu.edu or uunet!hamblin.math.byu.edu!smithw Mail: Math Dept. -- 314 TMCB; BYU; Provo, UT 84602 (USA) Phone: +1 801 378 2126 FAX: +1 801 378 2800 -- Jan L. Peterson -- note new e-mail address below. EMail: jlp@hamblin.math.byu.edu or uunet!hamblin.math.byu.edu!jlp Mail: Math Dept. -- 292 TMCB; BYU; Provo, UT 84602 (USA) Phone: +1 801 378 2183 FAX: +1 801 378 2800