paloma@sdcc7.UUCP (Cindy Paloma) (09/21/85)
A friend described an auto accident he saw today on his way to work. Traffic was backed up on all lanes, so many motorcycles would just drive by in the region between lanes. One motorcyclist lost control of his bike; hit a car on one side, bounced off, hit a car on the other side, bounced off again and went down, sliding, and was then run over by a car. (Serves him right, you say?) The driver of the car braked, and was struck from behind, and the following car was also rear-ended, etc. (It was bumper-to-bumper traffic during rush hour.) What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic is backed up? I've seen lots of motorcyclists do just that, and also the CHP motorcycle patrol. It seems to be a dangerous thing to do.
dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) (09/23/85)
> What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) > for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic > is backed up? I've seen lots of motorcyclists do just that, and also > the CHP motorcycle patrol. It seems to be a dangerous thing to do. It is legal for motorcycles to drive between lanes if the traffic is backed up and not moving. If the cars in traffic are moving, then the motorcycle is not supposed to pass them by driving between lanes. I think the rule has something to do with the fact that the bike engines are air cooled and over heat if the bike is kept idling for too long. -- Deepak S. Sabnis ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!dss00 (408) 746-6058 (Usual Disclaimer Here)
dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) (09/23/85)
> > It is legal for motorcycles to drive between lanes if the traffic > is backed up and not moving. If the cars in traffic are moving, then > the motorcycle is not supposed to pass them by driving between lanes. > Oops !! I forgot to say that what I said above is true for California. I don't know about other states. -- Deepak S. Sabnis ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!dss00 (408) 746-6058 (Usual Disclaimer Here)
joel@peora.UUCP (Joel Upchurch) (09/25/85)
>What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) >for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic >is backed up? I've seen lots of motorcyclists do just that, and also >the CHP motorcycle patrol. It seems to be a dangerous thing to do. My Florida Driver's Handbook says: "Motorcycle operators shall not drive between lanes of traffic or rows of vechicles." and "Remember, it is illegal to operate a motorcycle between lines of traffic or to pass between curb lane traffic and the curb." -- Joel Upchurch Perkin-Elmer Southern Development Center 2486 Sand Lake Road/ Orlando, Florida 32809/ (305)850-1031 {decvax!ucf-cs, ihnp4!pesnta, vax135!petsd}!peora!joel
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (10/01/85)
In article <2052@amdahl.UUCP> dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) writes: >It is legal for motorcycles to drive between lanes if the traffic >is backed up and not moving. If the cars in traffic are moving, then >the motorcycle is not supposed to pass them by driving between lanes. > >I think the rule has something to do with the fact that the bike engines >are air cooled and over heat if the bike is kept idling for too long. I have a copy of the California Vehicle Code. ($2.00. 905 pages. A bargain!) I can find no such law using the table of contents or the index. In fact, I find such a claim difficult to believe and the explanation quite preposterous. Unless you can give me a citation from the CVC I will assume you made it all up. -- Arthur Rudolph believe that technology is morally neutral and so, therefore, are those who create it. Phil Ngai +1 408 749-5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPA
shilo@t4test.UUCP (Shilo Jennings) (10/01/85)
> > What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) > > for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic > > is backed up? I've seen lots of motorcyclists do just that, and also > > the CHP motorcycle patrol. It seems to be a dangerous thing to do. > It is legal for motorcycles to drive between lanes if the traffic > is backed up and not moving. If the cars in traffic are moving, then > the motorcycle is not supposed to pass them by driving between lanes. > I think the rule has something to do with the fact that the bike engines > are air cooled and over heat if the bike is kept idling for too long. Although bikes overheating is VERY true, that was not the basis of the law. Also, it doesn't have to do with traffic moving either(but personally i would not do it if it was). The law actually states it is ok for two vehicles to share the same lane if there is room (two bikes , or a car and a bike).Neither vehicle can pass the other one at more than 5 miles an hour over what the other is doing. Passing on the right or left shoulder, even tho it looks safer will get you a ticket. THAT is the law(in California, not in a lot of places) and even the cops do it every day. There is a stipulation about staying in the same lane tho, not weaving in and out of traffic like you see a lot of smaller (mostly Japaenese[flame expected]) bats -i mean bikes- doing. -scj- Doesn't this belong in net.cycles?
dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) (10/02/85)
> In article <2052@amdahl.UUCP> dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) writes: > >It is legal for motorcycles to drive between lanes if the traffic > >is backed up and not moving. If the cars in traffic are moving, then > >the motorcycle is not supposed to pass them by driving between lanes. > > > >I think the rule has something to do with the fact that the bike engines > >are air cooled and over heat if the bike is kept idling for too long. > > In article <4467@amdcad.UUCP> phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) responds: > I have a copy of the California Vehicle Code. ($2.00. 905 pages. A > bargain!) I can find no such law using the table of contents or the > index. In fact, I find such a claim difficult to believe and the > explanation quite preposterous. Unless you can give me a citation from > the CVC I will assume you made it all up. > -- I do not have the CVC. My statement re legality of motorcycle riders passing the stationary cars by driving between lanes was based on the statement of a CHP officer who was instructor for a traffic school I attended to clean up a ticket. The explanation for the reason - re overheating of engines - was provided by a biker. Either way, I am not a biker and personally don't like being startled by a bike zipping past my left elbow. -- Deepak S. Sabnis ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!dss00 (408) 746-6058 (Usual Disclaimer Here)
davidl@tekig5.UUCP (David Levadie) (10/02/85)
------- Some people deliberately try to kill motorcyclists who do this. I heard one story about someone whose truck-driver friend has deliberately killed or injured more than one slot-riding motorcyclist... On one occasion he was driving in tandem with another truck, evidently driven by a friend with similar tendencies, and when a motorcyclist rode into the slot between them, they eased over towards each other until the slot, and the motorcyclist, "just disappeared", in the words of the storyteller. On another occasion, the guy saw a biker coming up the slot in his rearview mirror, and opened the door to his truck directly in the rider's face.
daw1@rduxb.UUCP (WILLIAMS) (10/02/85)
> ------- > Some people deliberately try to kill motorcyclists who do this. I heard > one story about someone whose truck-driver friend has deliberately > killed or injured more than one slot-riding motorcyclist... I'd never do that around a trucker. They are mostly a bunch of strung-out scumbags who do lots of sick stuff for kicks on the highways. They can all go to hell! Doug Williams AT&T Bell Labs Reading, PA mhuxt!rduxb!daw1
chip@vaxwaller.UUCP (Chip Kozy) (10/03/85)
HIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
I checked with the Calif Highway Patrol and was told that this
"lane-splitting" is a gray area. The word was that if it was done with
reasonable caution, and at a reasonable speed IN THE OPINION OF THE
OFFICER, you could get away with it. To me this means that if traffic
is in grid-lock mode, and you are very careful and drive slowly, AND
the officer who sees you doing this has had a good day, you should be
reasonably safe from citation. If, however, you're cruising down the
freeway at 60+ and you pass by lane-splitting, and are caught, you
can be written for reckless driving...which, around here, is not good.
Now this applies in Calif. Other states probably have a different
view of this, so if you're travelling between states, be sure you know
what you're getting into!! Personally, unless everything is at a dead
stop, I wouldn't try lane-splitting...too many crazies out there for me
to take that chance. Anyway, back to the oars.
Happiness;
Chip
--
Chip Kozy (415) 939-2400 x-2048
Varian Inst. Grp. 2700 Mitchell Dr.
Walnut Creek, Calif. 94598
{zehntel,amd,fortune,resonex,rtech}!varian!chippchan@mnetor.UUCP (Peter Chan) (10/04/85)
In article <762@rduxb.UUCP> daw1@rduxb.UUCP (WILLIAMS) writes: >> ------- >> Some people deliberately try to kill motorcyclists who do this. I heard >> one story about someone whose truck-driver friend has deliberately >> killed or injured more than one slot-riding motorcyclist... > It actually happened to me once, although I didn't hit them intentionally. It was my first time driving in Europe during a visit. Not very familiar with the ways in downtown (they called it "Centerville", I think) Paris, I hesitated at a stop light (in the left-most lane) finally, I made up my mind to make a left hand turn. However, there was a biker, with his girlfriend, trying to past me in the left, the opposite lane. The next thing I saw was watching 2 persons flying in front of my eyes. The guy wasn't too hurt but the girl was injured pretty badly. The police came, despite of all the communication problems, I finally gave them my address and phone number in Canada. I have never received any mail or call from them. Perhaps my insurance with the rental company took car of it, perhaps they figured out it wasn't my fault. Although I will not intentionally hit those bikers, I have no sympathy with them. If they want to play nasty and if they are hurt, nobody is to blame but themself. Peter Chan
stv@qantel.UUCP (Steve Vance@ex2499) (10/05/85)
>What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) >for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic >is backed up? In Illinois, the law you are breaking when you do this is one that says you can't pass a car on the right unless you have six feet of clearance. This is what they get you for when you are caught going down the dotted lines. Of course, motorcyclists who do this are hard to catch, unless the cop is also on a motorcycle. -- Steve Vance {dual,hplabs,ihnp4}!qantel!stv dual!qantel!stv@berkeley Qantel Corporation, Hayward, CA
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (10/05/85)
In article <102@sdcc7.UUCP> paloma@sdcc7.UUCP (Cindy Paloma) writes: >by in the region between lanes. One motorcyclist lost control of his >bike; hit a car on one side, bounced off, hit a car on the other side, >bounced off again and went down, sliding, and was then run over by a car. >(Serves him right, you say?) Yes! He probably wasn't wearing a helmet either. >What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) >for motorcycles to drive between lanes, From the California Vehicle Code, Div. 11, Section 21658a: "A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane..." >or on the shoulders, when traffic >is backed up? I've seen lots of motorcyclists do just that, and also >the CHP motorcycle patrol. It seems to be a dangerous thing to do. I've seen motorcyclists get cited for it but I don't know under which section of the CVC. CHP of course can do anything they want. It does seem dangerous. -- Arthur Rudolph believed that technology is morally neutral and so, therefore, are those who create it. Phil Ngai +1 408 749-5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPA
kitten@hao.UUCP (10/06/85)
> >What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) > >for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic > >is backed up? I've seen lots of motorcyclists do just that, and also > >the CHP motorcycle patrol. It seems to be a dangerous thing to do. > > My Florida Driver's Handbook says: > > "Motorcycle operators shall not drive between lanes of traffic > or rows of vechicles." > > and > > "Remember, it is illegal to operate a motorcycle between lines > of traffic or to pass between curb lane traffic and the curb." > -- > Joel Upchurch Unfortunately, this habit of motorcyclists, called "lane splitting", is legal in California. It is used most often in slow crawling 'rush' hour traffic. The great danger of this practice is that the cars are moving at about 5 mph, a motorist sees an opening to change lanes, motorcycle crashes into this car because he was going 35 and the car didn't see him because when he first looked, the bike wasn't in sight. I'd love to see this out-lawed. It can't really be modified, because no biker would stick to a maximum speed. This kind of situation is the main 'benifit' of lane splitting. Many people in Southern California get bikes for this reason. Of course, there is still the drastically reduced costs of commuting on a bike... {ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!noao | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!noao} !hao!kitten CSNET: kitten@NCAR ARPA: kitten%ncar@CSNET-RELAY
9234dwz@houxf.UUCP (POND SCUM) (10/07/85)
As a rider of 20 years now, I definately wouldn't lane hop around slow
& stopped cars here in the US(probably Canada too after reading Peter
Chans article). US drivers have little to no lane discipline, are totally
unaware of what's happening outside there 4000 lb "heaven" (again see
Peter Chans article).
For 3 years I rode across London rush hour traffic & riding around & through
traffic was the only way to make decent time. Never once was I cut off, "not
seen" or otherwise placed at any major risk. However here in the states it's
a much different story, people don't even see other cars, trucks etc let
alone a bike. I was real surprised when I first found out that headlights
on bikes where permenantly ON. Now I know why.
Maybe we should carry small nuclear devices built into all bikes, THEN these
*ssholes in cars would realise that people get HURT when they smash into
bikes.
Aside to Peter Chan, sorry if I appeared to come down heavily on you but the
attitude "that it's their fault" really bugs the sh*t out of me especially
when you probably put someone in the hospital, and do you KNOW for a fact that
they WERE breaking the law. THEY ARE PEOPLE ON THOSE BIKES !
Dave Peak
@ ihnp4!hotel!dxp
"All the net's a stage and all the men and women merely ham actors !"
- Rev Peak (apologies to Bill S.)augustc@zeus.UUCP (Augustine T. Chan) (10/08/85)
> The danger of lane splitting
Along the most heavily used section of I-5 in Seattle,
a carpool lane is reserved for those "fuel efficient"
motor vehicles, defined as buses or automobiles with 3 or more persons
on board or motocycles. Even during rush hours
when everyone else is creeping along at 25 m.p.h, traffic
in the carpool lane still moves at close to speed limit, reducing
the need for bikers to drive between lanes.
Augustinerfc@calmasd.UUCP (Robert Clayton) (10/10/85)
> >What I want to know is this: Is it legal (in California, or anywhere) > >for motorcycles to drive between lanes, or on the shoulders, when traffic > >is backed up? > > In Illinois, the law you are breaking when you do this is one that says > you can't pass a car on the right unless you have six feet of clearance. > This is what they get you for when you are caught going down the dotted > lines. Of course, motorcyclists who do this are hard to catch, unless > the cop is also on a motorcycle. > -- A California cyclist once told me that in California it is not legal to have more than two vehicles abreast in a single lane. This is supposed to allow two cyclist to ride abreast in the same lane, a site I often see and have no problem with. Many cyclists are interpreting this to mean that they can pass cars *provided* they stay in the same lane. On many of our skinny parking lots (freeways) you will see cyclists running down the dotted line between the stopped cars during rush hour. Said cyclist also said that sometimes they are ticketed for reckless driving when they cross the dotted line because they often must weave across the line to make their way between cars. Another law that arrests them is the law of physics when a motorist opens his door to see why the traffic stopped. Bob Clayton GE Calma San Diego R&D
29042128@sdcc13.UUCP (29042128) (10/14/85)
One time when I was riding on the back of a friends motorcycle, A
police officer stopped us for speeding. While he was writing the
ticket for my friend, I asked him about "splitting lanes". His
reply was short and direct.
"It's stupid but not illegal"
This reply came from an officer in Torrance, California.