bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) (11/21/90)
This news flash: NeXTStep 2.0 is now in duplication. I have only one word for it. AWESOME Every thing is better. Everything. One of my favorites (and completely unexpected) is the improvement to the SCSI drivers. Today I hooked up an unformatted Wren V to my cube and booted from the ROM monitor. It cheerfully reported that it was a Wren V, Sector size, model number, SCSI ID... (I thought geez...!) Then the workspace manager started. An alert came up saying it was unreadable (the Wren V), and would I like to format it? I clicked yes. 3 Minutes later the Workspace mounted it. It works.... That simple.... It just works.... So, for all of you bloodthirsty shareware authors who were dreaming of charging people to format 3rd party hard disks... Find another source of income. AWESOME Bruce Just another Spud
izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) (11/21/90)
In article <352@atncpc.UUCP> bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) writes: > >One of my favorites (and completely unexpected) is the improvement to >the SCSI drivers. Today I hooked up an unformatted Wren V to my cube >and booted from the ROM monitor. It cheerfully reported that it was >a Wren V, Sector size, model number, SCSI ID... (I thought geez...!) > >Then the workspace manager started. An alert came up saying it was >unreadable (the Wren V), and would I like to format it? I clicked >yes. 3 Minutes later the Workspace mounted it. It works.... That Low-level format of a Wren V can't possibly be completed in 3 minutes. So, I assume what is now automatic in 2.0 is (disk -i /dev/rsdxx), and this is possible without a disktab entry for the drive. My question to those with 2.0 is: Does the 2.0 OS include a program which allows us to do low-level formatting of SCSI disks? Such a program is needed to fix SCSI Media errors, which may develop after some use. For Release 1.0, there was an unsupported program (not on OD) called 'formatdisk' which could do this at least on Maxtor drives. Is there something similar or hopefully better in the 2.0 release? Izumi Ohzawa, izumi@violet.berkeley.edu
agm@cs.brown.edu (Axel Merk) (11/22/90)
In article <352@atncpc.UUCP> bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) writes: >[...] >Then the workspace manager started. An alert came up saying it was >unreadable (the Wren V), and would I like to format it? I clicked >yes. 3 Minutes later the Workspace mounted it. It works.... That >simple.... It just works.... > >[...] >Bruce I don't think we'll have to go into this discussion again: The NeXT always provided relatively easy means of high-level formatting drives (as you point out, it's even easier now as it is automized and menu-oriented). This will not, however, low-level format the drives. Result: Your drive will work fine if you only high-level format it. If you want to get the maximum out of your drive, however, you might want to make sure that the cache is set on, the automatic error reallocation is set on, and that the sector size is set to 1024 bytes per sector. In addition, the error allocation scheme may either be set to optimize speed or space. If any of that is not set to your desires, low-level format the drive. Axel, co-author of TheFormatter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Axel Merk "One needs a certain amount of blindness -- -- agm@cs.brown.edu to see perfection" - Christopher Nuzum -- -- phone/fax (401)272 2262 Brown University Box 53 Providence RI 02912 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (11/22/90)
In article <352@atncpc.UUCP> bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) writes: >[..] >One of my favorites (and completely unexpected) is the improvement to >the SCSI drivers. Today I hooked up an unformatted Wren V to my cube >and booted from the ROM monitor. It cheerfully reported that it was >a Wren V, Sector size, model number, SCSI ID... (I thought geez...!) > >Then the workspace manager started. An alert came up saying it was >unreadable (the Wren V), and would I like to format it? I clicked >yes. 3 Minutes later the Workspace mounted it. It works.... That >simple.... It just works.... > First some technical points: Low-level formatting takes about 30 min. Thus NeXT does not do that with OS 2.0. What NeXT does is simply build a new file system on the drive as it is. This does not optimize the drive at all. We never claimed that it is necessary to use our program to install a third party drive, but it was and still is advisable to do so. Second our program allows you to set several parameters such as caching and the way automatic error reallocation is handled. This is also not done through building a new file system. Thus the new OS makes things easier, that's good, but it does not make our program obsolete. At least we believe that an increase in speed of over 100% from the worst to the best setting in addition to higher data security is worthwile considering it as an option. >So, for all of you bloodthirsty shareware authors who were dreaming >of charging people to format 3rd party hard disks... Find another >source of income. > >AWESOME > Now to the personal part: Your posting is more than insulting. Did you think about what these 'bloodthirsty' people do: We encouraged dozens of people to buy third party hard drives, thereby saving about $2000. If we hadn't told the net that we were successful in installing a third party drive early on this year, many people wouldn't have bought a NeXT at all as a reasonable configuration was way to expensive for them. We took the risk of ruining our drives for the sake of making this solution possible. We, the bloodthirsty people, provided extensive technical support, sometimes till 4am, even to people who never used our formatting tool. Luckily, NeXT made it easier for the average user to install third party drives. This will save us a lot of time in dealing with tedious problems. Up to now, however, people asked us when they had problems. Asking $45 for that is certainly not too much. >[Organization: Ashton Tate NCPC, San Jose, CA.] If someone out there is bloodthirsty then it might be companies like Asthon-Tate with their law suits, but not us asking $45 when people can save a couple thousand dollars by using our program. And in case you shouldn't have realized it, one does not get rich this way. Axel and Ronald h------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
Mitch.Alland@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Mitch Alland) (11/22/90)
I've just installed what the seller told me was a Wren 7 but the disktab file I was given referred to a Seagate IMPRIMIS94601-15. Is this the same as the 1.2 GB Wren 7 or was I shipped a slower disk? After building the disk (I installed it as an internal disk, I cannot boot normally from it; I get a "SCSI error" message. After I go into the monitor and "bsd", it hangs at the SCSI message, Ithen hit the power button and enter "n", it bootd and I end up with the # prompt; after hitting "Control-D" IT boots up into the normal NeXT operating sustem. Will these problems be solved when I rebuild the disk with System 2.0? Is there any fix I can do in the meantime? (I don't have direct access to usenet, sp I can't download any utilities. If you cannot respond to this, you can call me at home 202-363-3884 or the office 202-473-0383. I really wonder about the Wren 7/IMPRIMIS question. --Mitch -- Mitch Alland, Mitch.Alland@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org via The Black Cat's Shack's FidoNet<->Usenet Gateway blkcat.fidonet.org and Fidonet 1:109/401
mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) (11/22/90)
>First some technical points: >Low-level formatting takes about 30 min. Thus NeXT does not do that >with OS 2.0. What NeXT does is simply build a new file system on the >drive as it is. This does not optimize the drive at all. We never >claimed that it is necessary to use our program to install a third >party drive, but it was and still is advisable to do so. Second our >program allows you to set several parameters such as caching and the >way automatic error reallocation is handled. This is also not done >through building a new file system. Thus the new OS makes things >easier, that's good, but it does not make our program obsolete. >At least we believe that an increase in speed of over 100% from the >worst to the best setting in addition to higher data security is >worthwile considering it as an option. > I, for one, would be interested in obtaining this software. The way I see it, the reason I'm buying a NeXT is for the performance factor. So, if I can increase the performance of my hard drive for a small cost, I'm going to do it. So, where do I find this low-level formatting software? Is it on the net anywhere? MikeC -- ___________________________________________________ Michael D. Callaghan,MDC Designs, University of Merryland mikec@wam.umd.edu
jacob@gore.com (Jacob Gore) (11/23/90)
/ comp.sys.next / bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) / Nov 20, 1990 / > So, for all of you bloodthirsty shareware authors who were dreaming > of charging people to format 3rd party hard disks... Find another > source of income. Bloodthursty, huh? People who work for glass houses... Jacob -- Jacob Gore Jacob@Gore.Com boulder!gore!jacob
Mitch.Alland@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Mitch Alland) (11/24/90)
Do you know how I can get the Formatter without direct usenet access? --Mitch -- Mitch Alland, Mitch.Alland@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org via The Black Cat's Shack's FidoNet<->Usenet Gateway blkcat.fidonet.org and Fidonet 1:109/401
bruce@atncpc.UUCP (Bruce Henderson) (11/27/90)
In article <57237@brunix.UUCP>, rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) writes: > > Now to the personal part: > > Your posting is more than insulting. Did you think about what these > 'bloodthirsty' people do: > We encouraged dozens of people to buy third party hard drives, thereby ..... > party drives. This will save us a lot of time in dealing with tedious > problems. Up to now, however, people asked us when they had problems. > Asking $45 for that is certainly not too much. > > >[Organization: Ashton Tate NCPC, San Jose, CA.] > > If someone out there is bloodthirsty then it might be companies like > Asthon-Tate with their law suits, but not us asking $45 when people > can save a couple thousand dollars by using our program. > And in case you shouldn't have realized it, one does not get rich this > way. > > Axel and Ronald First: I would like to apologise about the bloodthirsty bit. It was uncalled for. I'm sure you guys are trying to make a contribution to the cause. Second: The F*$%&ing lawsuits of Ashton Tate embarass and annoy the hell out of me, too. I have never claimed to speak for Ashton Tate, and they have never claimed to be acting on my behalf or with my blessing (heck, they didn't even consult me.... 8-) In the future, If you want to flame someone, it is usually useless to attack thier employer's actions, most employees could care less what the "dudes upstairs" do to amuse themselves. Bruce