pkern@utcs.uucp (pkern) (10/20/85)
A recent trip to Belgium has opened this person's eyes as to how limited the North American market is. I never realized that in Europe, the VW Rabbit was called Golf all along. The Merkur XR4Ti was really from the Ford(Europe) Escort line. There were a lot more types of Escort there than the box one sees here. The Mazda GLC is really the 323 (?). Ford's Aerostar got its shape from Renault vans (amazing likeness). VW Polo never made it to N. America, as well as a number of VW large vans. Toyota had the Carina and the Starlet. I'd never seen a Carina and I hadn't seen a Starlet in a long while (damn import quotas!). Also, Toyota had a more varied line of vans,including one called "Hiace". Other small vans included Suzuki's mini-van. This was a very small van. It was only as long as an economy car but it seemed very practical. There were a lot of Opels, Peugeots, Renaults, Austins and Talbots. Also something called Diahatsu (sp?). Ford is really big in Europe. I saw a lot of the ones they call the Granada and the Taunus. GM and Chrysler are practically invisible. (I saw 2 Plymouths, both looked old. Also saw 1 GM product which looked very out-of-place, one of the newer 2-door hulks (must have been shipped over)). It seems that European drivers use their brains more often than do N. American drivers. The driving there seemed to be more freestyle than one can find here. I get the feeling that people here drive as if a police officer will pop out of nowhere and ticket them for some obscure reason. Also, the Belgian freeway speed limit was 120 km/h (70 mph) but I noticed many doing 160-180 km/h (mostly BMWs and Mercedes but a few Renaults, too). I really enjoyed driving in Europe, Europeans drive with intelligence. P.Kern ..!ihnp4!utcs!pkern
haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (10/20/85)
In article <932@utcs.uucp> pkern@utcs.uucp (pkern) writes: > >A recent trip to Belgium has opened this person's eyes as to >how limited the North American market is. >I never realized that in Europe, the VW Rabbit was called Golf all along. >The Merkur XR4Ti was really from the Ford(Europe) Escort line. The Merkur XR4Ti is actually a Ford Sierra XR4i with the normally aspirated six having been replaced by a turbo four. XR4i has actually now been replaced by an XR4x4 --- a 4-wheel drive version of the same, to compete against the Audi 4000 Quattro (there called Audi 80 Quattro). >There were a lot more types of Escort there than the box one sees here. Oh? They have a 2-door, 4-door and a station wagon. A notchback version is new, but I believe it has a different name (Orion?). >The Mazda GLC is really the 323 (?). >Ford's Aerostar got its shape from Renault vans (amazing likeness). >VW Polo never made it to N. America, as well as a number of VW large vans. The large van is the VW LT. In Canada at least, though, we have VW-M.A.N. trucks which have an LT cabin and some other components. VW Polo and Derby (a notchback Polo) were never imported beause they were considered too small for the North American market. This may be changing, though. >Toyota had the Carina and the Starlet. I'd never seen a Carina and I hadn't >seen a Starlet in a long while (damn import quotas!). >Also, Toyota had a more varied line of vans,including one called "Hiace". The Hiace is a best-selling van in many European countries. It is surprising Toyota doesn't import it here. Or aren't vans outside quotas? >Other small vans included Suzuki's mini-van. This was a very small van. It >was only as long as an economy car but it seemed very practical. >There were a lot of Opels, Peugeots, Renaults, Austins and Talbots. > Also something called Diahatsu (sp?). Daihatsu. a pint-sized Japanese (about the size of a Honda City/Jazz). >Ford is really big in Europe. I saw a lot of the ones they call the Granada >and the Taunus. The Taunus was replaced a few years ago by the Sierra. Ford has, I believe about 16% of the European market, roughly the same as GM, Renault, Fiat and VW. >GM and Chrysler are practically invisible. (I saw 2 Plymouths, both looked >old. Also saw 1 GM product which looked very out-of-place, one of the >newer 2-door hulks (must have been shipped over)). Opel is part of GM --- I bet you saw a lot of Kadetts over there. Chrysler has now sold its overseas operations to Peugeot, but it used to make Chrysler, Sunbeam and Simca. The Euro-Chryslers were completely different models from the ones here. Simca is now called Talbot, and I expect you must have seen some Talbot Horizons. Didn't they look suspiciously like Dodge Omnis? >It seems that European drivers use their brains more often than do N. American >drivers. The driving there seemed to be more freestyle than one can find here. >I get the feeling that people here drive as if a police officer will pop out >of nowhere and ticket them for some obscure reason. >Also, the Belgian freeway speed limit was 120 km/h (70 mph) but I noticed >many doing 160-180 km/h (mostly BMWs and Mercedes but a few Renaults, too). > >I really enjoyed driving in Europe, Europeans drive with intelligence. > >P.Kern >..!ihnp4!utcs!pkern Sorry if this looks like I'm trying to crush all your arguments. I just wanted to correct and elaborate on some of the information... \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Don't cry, don't do anything No lies, back in the government No tears, party time is here again President Gas is up for president (c) Psychedelic Furs, 1982
wjh@bonnie.UUCP (Bill Hery) (10/21/85)
> > A recent trip to Belgium has opened this person's eyes as to > how limited the North American market is. Besides the ones you mentioned, some others that I have observed while in various pars of europe: BMW 315, 316, 318(i) 320i,323e all share the same body, but with different engine options from 1500 to 2300 cc's. The 315 1nd 316 were significantly less expensive than the 320i in 1981; assuming the same percentage markup as a 320i (admittedly a rash assumption), if the BMW 315 were imported to the US in 1981, it would have cost about the same as a Honda Accord (and blown BMW's elitist image). The 315 was the standard car for the Munich police department at that time. Volvo has a smaller car, the 340 series. Mercedes still sells a 200D in Europe. Lots of cabs are Mercedes. Volkswagon (Polo), Fiat, Renault, and several others make noticably smaller cars than they export to the US. All the Japanese companies make both smaller and larger cars than are sold in the US. The bigger cars look like 20 year old American intermediade sized cars. Datsun (Nissan) has used names instead of numbers to designate models in Europe for years. The 310 was called the Cherry, and the B-210 and its replacement the Sunny. The European Bluebird used to be the old (pre-73) 510; now it's used for what looks like an 810 (or Maxima). Bill Hery
haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (10/23/85)
>> >> A recent trip to Belgium has opened this person's eyes as to >> how limited the North American market is. >BMW 315, 316, 318(i) 320i,323e all share the same body, but with different engine >options from 1500 to 2300 cc's. The 315 1nd 316 were significantly less expensive >than the 320i in 1981; assuming the same percentage markup as a 320i >(admittedly a rash assumption), if the BMW 315 were imported to the US in 1981, >it would have cost about the same as a Honda Accord (and blown BMW's elitist >image). The 315 was the standard car for the Munich police department at that >time. BMW's 300 series now includes the following models in Europe: 316 1.8 4-cylinder 318i 1.8 4-cylinder FI 320i 2.0 6-cylinder FI 323i 2.3 6-cylinder FI 325e 2.3 6-cylinder FI w/cat. converter \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Don't cry, don't do anything No lies, back in the government No tears, party time is here again President Gas is up for president (c) Psychedelic Furs, 1982
wdm@ecn-pc.UUCP (Tex) (10/24/85)
In article <1771@watdcsu.UUCP> haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) writes: >In article <932@utcs.uucp> pkern@utcs.uucp (pkern) writes: >> >>A recent trip to Belgium has opened this person's eyes as to >>how limited the North American market is. >>I never realized that in Europe, the VW Rabbit was called Golf all along. >>The Merkur XR4Ti was really from the Ford(Europe) Escort line. > >The Merkur XR4Ti is actually a Ford Sierra XR4i with the normally >aspirated six having been replaced by a turbo four. So? The Sierra is a European spin-off of the Escort line. >>There were a lot more types of Escort there than the box one sees here. > >Oh? They have a 2-door, 4-door and a station wagon. A notchback >version is new, but I believe it has a different name (Orion?). Engine/suspension options are much bigger in Europe than they are here. > Aren't vans outside of >quotas? Sorry, no more quotas. > >>Other small vans included Suzuki's mini-van. This was a very small van. It >>was only as long as an economy car but it seemed very practical. >>There were a lot of Opels, Peugeots, Renaults, Austins and Talbots. >> Also something called Diahatsu (sp?). > >Daihatsu. a pint-sized Japanese (about the size of a Honda City/Jazz). Daihatsu is a company (or a division of a company), not a model. In the Mid-East I once drove one that was about the same size as a Chevette. I was told, although no one would really swear to it, that Daihatsu is a company formed to sell cars to the Israelis without pissing off the Arabs. >[Ford has about 16% of the market] >Roughly the same as GM, >Renault, Fiat and VW. Well, not really. Usually, either Ford, Renault or Fiat sell the most cars in Europe. This is actually a pretty big deal over there. > >>GM and Chrysler are practically invisible. (I saw 2 Plymouths, both looked >>old. Also saw 1 GM product which looked very out-of-place, one of the >>newer 2-door hulks (must have been shipped over)). Wouldn't surprise me if it were shipped over. American cars are a REAL status symbol to alot of Europeans, probably on a par with a Mercedes over here. >>P.Kern > >Sorry if this looks like I'm trying to crush all your arguments. I >just wanted to correct and elaborate on some of the information... Likewise. > \tom haapanen
haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (10/27/85)
In article <408@ecn-pc.UUCP> wdm@ecn-pc.UUCP (Tex) writes: >>> The Merkur XR4Ti was really from the Ford(Europe) Escort line. >> The Merkur XR4Ti is actually a Ford Sierra XR4i with the normally >> aspirated six having been replaced by a turbo four. > So? The Sierra is a European spin-off of the Escort line. What do you mean by "spin-off"? It's not the same chassis as the Escort, nor are the powertrains the same (there is no way to shoehorn the Sierra XR4x4 V6 engine into an Escort). >> Aren't vans outside of quotas? > Sorry, no more quotas. But aren't the Japanese still voluntarily limiting their U.S. exports (hey, I'm Canadian!)? And *were* vans included in quotas? >> [Ford has about 16% of the market] >> Roughly the same as GM, Renault, Fiat and VW. > Well, not really. Usually, either Ford, Renault or Fiat sell the most > cars in Europe. This is actually a pretty big deal over there. Agreed. The Big Five in Europe are amazingly evenly matched, though, but local market fluctuations and things like the German auto strike make for good and/or bad years for some. \tom haapanen watmath!watdcsu!haapanen Don't cry, don't do anything No lies, back in the government No tears, party time is here again President Gas is up for president (c) Psychedelic Furs, 1982
fritz@phri.UUCP (Dave Fritzinger) (10/28/85)
> > So? The Sierra is a European spin-off of the Escort line. WRONG!!!! The Sierra is a rear wheel drive replacement for the immensely popular(in England), but very poorly regarded Cortina line. Except for being a hatchback, it is not at all related to the Escort, which is front wheel drive, much smaller, and has a totally different lineup of engines, even if some of them are very similar in size to engines offered in the Sierra. > Wouldn't surprise me if it were shipped over. American cars are a REAL > status symbol to alot of Europeans, probably on a par with a Mercedes > over here. Well, not to a lot of Europeans. Quite a few realize that their cars are superior, at least for their driving conditions. -- Dave Fritzinger, Public Health Research Institute, NY,NY {allegra!phri!fritz} "I think. I think I am. Therefore, I am,...I think." Moody Blues