danr@autodesk.com (Dan Rosenfeld) (12/18/90)
Did anyone else notice the listing of new NeXT products in the Dec. 10 issue of Microtimes (a S.F. Bay area weekly) ? A company called Lighthouse Design is apparently selling an optical disk of various NeXT-useful stuff, but what caught my attention was the line "It also includes one year of NeXT-specific Usenet network news ..." I was wondering how people on the net felt about the possibility that their contributions to net news discussions could become part of a commercial product. Has this been discussed before? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Rosenfeld danr@autodesk.com ( ) "Enjoy life, eat out more often." o) o) moo -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- --
louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) (12/18/90)
People can read my words of wisdom for free on any USENET site in the world. What do I care if some people are silly enough to actually pay money for this nonsense. I think that its much like the GNU software; you can get it for free from any number of places, but some folks find it easiest to give someone money to get it for them. louie
blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu (Tom Blenko) (12/18/90)
|I was wondering how people on the net felt about the possibility that |their contributions to net news discussions could become part of a |commercial product. Has this been discussed before? I feel fine about it. Information provided on the net is used to commercial advantage in a variety of ways, and has since its inception. Tom
moose@svc.portal.com (12/19/90)
In article <danr.661466912@melange> danr@autodesk.com (Dan Rosenfeld) writes: > >Lighthouse Design is apparently selling an optical disk of various >NeXT-useful stuff, but what caught my attention was the line "It also >includes one year of NeXT-specific Usenet network news ..." >I was wondering how people on the net felt about the possibility that >their contributions to net news discussions could become part of a >commercial product. Has this been discussed before? Considering that half the useful information on this newsgroup comes out of LightHouse Design, It might be argued that they are only selling their own information :->. Seriously, if you look at the price, you will notice that they are probably only breaking even. I would not be surprised to hear they are taking a loss by providing this service. -- Michael Rutman | moose@svc.portal.com Cubist | makes me a NeXT programmer Software Ventures | For Your Eyes Only Public Key
kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) (12/19/90)
In article <danr.661466912@melange> danr@autodesk.com (Dan Rosenfeld) writes: > >Did anyone else notice the listing of new NeXT products in the Dec. 10 >issue of Microtimes (a S.F. Bay area weekly) ? A company called >Lighthouse Design is apparently selling an optical disk of various ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >NeXT-useful stuff, but what caught my attention was the line "It also >includes one year of NeXT-specific Usenet network news ..." > >I was wondering how people on the net felt about the possibility that >their contributions to net news discussions could become part of a >commercial product. Has this been discussed before? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They are not selling software!!!!!! They are giving the software away. What you are paying for is: 1. The media the software is on. 2. You are also paying for their time and effort in compiling this stuff. THE SOFTWARE IS FREE!!!!!! BTW - If someone gets the disk, wouldn't you feel good that you may have helped someone new to the NeXT world. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Dan Rosenfeld danr@autodesk.com > >( ) "Enjoy life, eat out more often." > o) o) > moo > -- >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >-- KeNT - I need a NeXTstation BaD. -- /* -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. */ /* For I can only express my own opinions. */ /* */ /* Kent L. Shephard : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com */
cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) (12/19/90)
In article <08ld02QC04Da01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes: >They are not selling software![...] >What you are paying for is: >1. The media the software is on. >2. You are also paying for their time and effort in compiling this stuff. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it smells like a duck, then it IS a duck. _-_-_-_-_ -_-_-_-_-Chuck Herrick <cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu> The opinions expressed herein are mine and are in no way attributed to any of the many people for whom I work. Who they are is irrelevant. ___ / | \ |- -| \_|_/ -- _-_-_-_-_ -_-_-_-_-Chuck Herrick <cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu> The opinions expressed herein are mine and are in no way attributed to any of the many people for whom I work. Who they are is irrelevant.
glang@Autodesk.COM (Gary Lang) (12/19/90)
>I was wondering how people on the net felt about the possibility that >their contributions to net news discussions could become part of a >commercial product. Has this been discussed before? Dan - Since the cube is not aimed at the typical net-weenie with ftp access, the Lighthouse disk has been extremely invaluable in getting the pd sources for the NeXT as well as the net postings, BuZZNugs, and so on. We're more inclined to be PC users who didn't know/care about what USENET/ftp/etc. was until we got our cubes, and were grateful for the help. That's the way I think most folks see it. Anyway, there's a lot more than the useful NeXT info that was on the net a year ago on it and they allow user groups to copy it like crazy so it's not like they're hoarding the thing... Hell, I bought one. - g -- Gary T. Lang (415)332-2344 x2702 Autodesk, Inc. Sausalito, CA. MCI: 370-0730
luther@uop.EDU (Pat Luther) (12/20/90)
kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) writes: (About Lighthouse design selling software and usenet news) >They are not selling software!!!!!! They are giving the software away. >What you are paying for is: >1. The media the software is on. >2. You are also paying for their time and effort in compiling this stuff. So how is this not selling software? If I buy WordPerfect, I pay for the media it's on, and WP's time and effort in writing it. If you have to give them money for it, they're selling it. >THE SOFTWARE IS FREE!!!!!! You're in marketing, aren't you? Note, however, that I have nothing against this. If I want to keep something proprietary, I wouldn't post it on an international computer network. ??pat ----- From Pat Luther, Lex's Evil Twin luther@uop.edu OR pluther@madvax.uop.edu (Depending on my mood.....) "Damnit, Jim, you're an actor, not an author!"
tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (12/20/90)
In article <661640384.12535@zeus.uop.edu> luther@uop.EDU (Pat Luther) writes: >So how is this not selling software? If I buy WordPerfect, I pay for the >media it's on, and WP's time and effort in writing it. If you have to >give them money for it, they're selling it. > You're also paying for WP's R&D, the largest portion of the retail price. I do agree that Lighthouse is selling the software. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
cfw@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Chuck Waltrip) (12/21/90)
In article <1990Dec20.054557.25331@ecst.csuchico.edu> tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kenneth K.F. Lui) writes: >In article <661640384.12535@zeus.uop.edu> luther@uop.EDU (Pat Luther) writes: >>So how is this not selling software? If I buy WordPerfect, I pay for the >>media it's on, and WP's time and effort in writing it. If you have to >>give them money for it, they're selling it. >> >You're also paying for WP's R&D, the largest portion of the >retail price. I do agree that Lighthouse is selling the >software. > I guess it's open to interpretation as to whether Lighthouse is selling information or simply recovering distribution costs. I believe they have indicated that they won't redistribute anyone's stuff if the writer objects and they have reminded us that they are not the only redistributor (I believe CompuServe is a redistributor, for instance). My own view is that I'd probably be flattered if someone were to redistribute my Usenet musings (not likely) and wouldn't care if anything I freely contributed actually were re-sold as opposed to just redistributed at cost. Information provided here is intended to be of value to someone and it is of no value to anyone who doesn't have access to it (for whatever reason). Those people who sell public domain information or software (and I'm making no judgment as to whether Lighthouse belongs in that category) may be providing a service -- the buyer is in the best position to judge. When you think about it, an editor that filters out flames, misinformation and irrelevant material is providing a real service that many with "free" Usenet access might be willing to pay for anyway. Which reminds me once again to take the opportunity to thank any newsgroup moderators who might be reading this for the invaluable services they render us all (yup, for free but it's worth paying for). Since previous posters have indicated that Lighthouse people are cool anyway, you can put me on the list of people who might be interested in the information they make available. (I have no affiliation with Lighthouse...only know what I read in the newsgroup.) >Ken >______________________________________________________________________________ >tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| >tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________| c.f.waltrip <cfw@aplpy.jhuapl.edu>
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (12/21/90)
In article <1990Dec20.054557.25331@ecst.csuchico.edu> tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kenneth K.F. Lui) writes: >In article <661640384.12535@zeus.uop.edu> luther@uop.EDU (Pat Luther) writes: >>So how is this not selling software? If I buy WordPerfect, I pay for the >>media it's on, and WP's time and effort in writing it. If you have to >>give them money for it, they're selling it. >> >You're also paying for WP's R&D, the largest portion of the >retail price. I do agree that Lighthouse is selling the >software. Ok, could we stop this discussion? It get old.... By the way, no one doubts they are selling something. The big question is what they are selling. If you sell a product you pay R&D, Marketing, Net Profit, Media, Copying, Documentation. Then you also sell for PROFIT. If you sell a service, you don't sell the software. e.g. FSF sells tapes with their software. Nevertheless they do not sell any software, they sell a copy service. (Ever thought your copy shop next door sells books just because they let you copy some?) Thus you pay for their time and media. If they would sell for profit (which I doubt) then you would also pay for marketing etc. I have never seen such marketing and thus I guess it does not exist. So yes they sell it, no, they don't do it for a profit that would be worth bothering (if any). You can also show this as a 2 by 2 matrix: profit vs. non-profit on one axis, service selling vs. software selling on the other. I think it is a non-profit service and thus a great thing, and if it spreads their name and help sell their other i.e. real products then so be it. In case you have read up to here and still not realized that this whole passage makes fun of the whole discussion then here are the smilies: :-) :-) :-Q Ufff. That's it. Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
glang@Autodesk.COM (Gary Lang) (12/21/90)
Those people here that are so concerned about people "selling" their postings can just go to Prodigy and they'll never have to worry about that again. I bought the disk for the GNU stuff, to look at the XNeXT stuff, get Emacs, play with the NeXT Camp stuff, and in general get a bunch of software without spending a lot of time trying to get ftp access, reading netnews, etc. These people saved me more money than I sent them and deserve praise, not a rebuke. Thanks Lighthouse. - g -- Gary T. Lang (415)332-2344 x2702 Autodesk, Inc. Sausalito, CA. MCI: 370-0730
tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (12/21/90)
I have no problems with Lighthouse selling Usenet stuff. My previous post wasn't really clear on this; I just wanted to add that they were selling software. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|