eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) (12/20/90)
From article <1990Dec17.171742.1309@grep.co.uk>, by frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales): ... > Most software updates include new commands, new facilities and performance > or compatibility improvements which are worth actually paying for. And > remember that much of the code in HP-UX wasn't actually written by HP > at all. When was the last time you had to debug a two million line package > you didn't write? > >>It is unfair. > > No, it isn't. Name any commercial vendor who will provide on-going > support and updates completely free of charge. On a demonstration at out university the european director of NeXT told us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy. I don't know how the'll manage to do this, and as i don't normally read comp.sys.next nor do have other experience with NeXT, this is just a reflection of what i've been told. And "No", it seems to be a real "handling fee" only, unlike SMI's $995 offer for OpenWindows, as you may copy you're new NeXT OS from a friend who has got the media !! Is this really true ? -- Toerless Eckert | /C=de/A=dbp/P=uni-erlangen/OU=informatik/S=eckert 50GB/M limit: NO MERCY | X.400 ^ Internet> eckert@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (12/20/90)
In article <3402@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) writes: >us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except >for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy. [...] >a reflection of what i've been told. And "No", it seems to be a real >"handling fee" only, unlike SMI's $995 offer for OpenWindows, as you >may copy you're new NeXT OS from a friend who has got the media !! Yes, it's true. NeXT owners are fortunate enough to receive updates to NeXTstep and any bundled programs for the cost of media. One will pay roughly $200 or so. Anyone who owns a NeXT has the right to use all items that are included in Extended editions (those who bought NeXTstations with the 105MB disk who can't possibly fit all of NeXTstep 2.0 can, as an option, go to anyone who has the Extended Edition and copy it on OD, magnetic disk, or floppy disk, as well as purchase it from NeXT). Source code is a separate item and costs roughly $125 from a separate vendor because most of what's out there is from GNU. Word has it that NeXT will make _almost_ all source available: the interface builder, the Mach kernel, its <Objective-C, C++, and C> compiler, _but_not_AppKit_ from what I've heard. I don't know for sure, since this was from comp.sys.next, but I have doubts about the Objective-C being included because it's from StepStone. NeXT is no different from Apple in the sense of distributing the operating system for free--essentially; however, Apple makes you pay for documentation while NeXT provides it online. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
riordanmr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu (Mark Riordan) (12/20/90)
In article <3402@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de>, eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) says: On a demonstration at out university the european director of NeXT told >us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except >for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy. >Is this really true ? My NeXT salesman told me (in October) that there is indeed a license fee for the 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade, not just a media fee. Something to do with additional royalties to AT&T. But the upgrade is priced at $195 list for license + optical disk media. That's about the cost of just an optical, so I wonder if he was wrong. Anyway, the salesman said that he would look into a deal to unbundle the license fee part, since we really don't need all those copies of the optical. Mark Riordan Michigan State Univ. riordanmr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
minich@d.cs.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) (12/20/90)
frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales): | ............. Name any commercial vendor who will provide on-going | support and updates completely free of charge. I haven't paid a penny for system software since buying my Mac in 1984. The "support" isn't great but the price is right. -- |_ /| | Robert Minich | |\'o.O' | Oklahoma State University| "I'm a newcomer here, but does the |=(___)= | minich@d.cs.okstate.edu | net ever lay any argument to rest?" | U | - Ackphtth | -- dan herrick
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (12/20/90)
In article <1990Dec19.224727.29743@d.cs.okstate.edu> minich@d.cs.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) writes:
I haven't paid a penny for system software since buying my Mac in 1984.
The "support" isn't great but the price is right.
--
I think 10 years of system software support is built into Apple's
pricing scheme for new computer purchases and hardware upgrades.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
-Mikeeps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (12/20/90)
In article <1990Dec19.220233.22541@ecst.csuchico.edu> tempest@walleye.UUCP (Kenneth K.F. Lui) writes: >NeXT is no different from Apple in the sense of distributing the >operating system for free--essentially; however, Apple makes you >pay for documentation while NeXT provides it online. NeXT is charging us $65 per "old" machine as a license fee ("right to copy") to upgrade from 1.0a to 2.0--they wouldn't let us order one copy of the media, we had to order N-1 additional licenses. Apple's system software has been available by anonymous FTP since version 6.0.5 "for free." -=EPS=-
glang@Autodesk.COM (Gary Lang) (12/20/90)
>I think 10 years of system software support is built into Apple's >pricing scheme for new computer purchases and hardware upgrades. >Sorry, I couldn't resist. Then we ought to get 20 years no? Sorry I couldn't resist either. It's a joke; I am convinced that the cube is the best bargain going in computers today. Actually another ripost would be "well, you get what you pay for"... -- Gary T. Lang (415)332-2344 x2702 Autodesk, Inc. Sausalito, CA. MCI: 370-0730
tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (12/20/90)
In article <1060@toaster.SFSU.EDU> eps@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes: >NeXT is charging us $65 per "old" machine as a license fee >("right to copy") to upgrade from 1.0a to 2.0--they wouldn't let >us order one copy of the media, we had to order N-1 additional >licenses. > Ack, I didn't know about this license fee. Another poster in this thread said it was for AT&T stuff. If this is the case, does it mean some AT&T tools are included...like ksh? >Apple's system software has been available by anonymous FTP >since version 6.0.5 "for free." > Even before 6.0.5, people could go into "reasonable Apple dealers" and get a copy of the new system software on disk. Dealers don't provide disks unless you pay for them, of course. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) (12/21/90)
In article <1990Dec19.221541.23664@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> riordanmr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu (Mark Riordan) writes: > >My NeXT salesman told me (in October) that there is indeed a license fee for >the 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade, not just a media fee. This is correct. I got the following over the phone from NeXT TeleBusiness: N5516 Software Release 2.0 Upgrade License Price for this varies from $50 - $65 for educational institutions, so you have to contact your NeXT rep for that. But, note that the price for 2.0 Extended on OpticalDisk is only $15 more than the BLANK Optical Disk (for UC Berkeley Dept'l purchase). This means that it will cost more for you if you buy blank OD's and separate No-media 2.0 licenses from NeXT. Izumi Ohzawa, izumi@violet.berkeley.edu
cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) (12/21/90)
In article <3402@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) writes: >Is this really true ? no. -- _-_-_-_-_ -_-_-_-_-Chuck Herrick <cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu> The opinions expressed herein are mine and are in no way attributed to any of the many people for whom I work. Who they are is irrelevant.
eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (12/22/90)
In article <1990Dec20.175338.11841@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >N5516 Software Release 2.0 Upgrade License > >Price for this varies from $50 - $65 for educational institutions, UPDATE: When we first called NeXT, they quoted us $65. The P.O. on file shows we actually paid $42 each. MEA CULPA: It wasn't fair for me to compare Apple's free 6.0.5/6.0.7 updates with NeXT; I should have compared A/UX, whose 2.0 upgrades under comparable terms cost us FIVE times as much as NeXT's--and that's not including Apple's X Window System upgrade fee (NextStep, of course, being bundled with the NeXT Software Release). -=EPS=- -- I really don't know why we're paying Apple for X. We don't use it, it's not the native windowing system for *any* SFSU CS machine that runs it, we don't split X client/server across platforms, we have no X terminals, and no plans to acquire any.