hodges@toaster.SFSU.EDU (John Hodges) (12/03/90)
Now that you guys have sifted through some comments, some "realistic" and some not, is there some agreement that "editable" graphics importing is not supported on the NeXT? I would not have posted the message had I not already tried every conversion method and existing graphics product available (to my knowledge). I was hoping that someone had also run into this problem and resolved it. From the responses I'd say not. Perhaps there is a really small community of NeXT users with a need for editable object conversion. Hard to believe when the three products already working on the NeXT all have some form of DRAW facility in them. Also hard to beleive that NONE of them can read AND edit a graphic produced elsewhere. Personally, I would prefer interested parties to send mail to the vendors who are selling these products, and convince them this capability is needed, even demanded. Bickering was not my intended outcome... Apologies to deserving individuals for any misconceptions my original aricle presented... Jack Hodges San Francisco State University
wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Jon Shipley) (12/03/90)
Glenn Reid (ex of Adobe, now Head Cheese of RightBrain software) told me in e-mail that Adobe Illustrator (for the Mac) ships with a little utility called "DrawOver" which changes PICT into PS that Illustrator can edit. Since Illustrator will soon be available for the NeXT, I'd assume this would be one easy to way to get editable PICTs on the NeXT, if you have Illustrator for both. -w DISCLAIMER: Any misinformation in this post is my fault, not Glenn's.
scott@mcs-server.gac.edu (Scott Hess) (12/03/90)
In article <12169@milton.u.washington.edu> wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Jon Shipley) writes:
Glenn Reid (ex of Adobe, now Head Cheese of RightBrain software) told me
in e-mail that Adobe Illustrator (for the Mac) ships with a little utility
called "DrawOver" which changes PICT into PS that Illustrator can edit.
DISCLAIMER: Any misinformation in this post is my fault, not Glenn's.
Well, maybe. The question is: Does it import it to _editable_ postscript?
You can import a .eps file into various drawing tools on the NeXT (Draw,
I think, and probably TopDraw, at the least), but you cannot _EDIT_ it.
You can just resize, possibly rotate and skew. But not edit in the sense
of going in and changing the size or position of a single element within
the image . . . I'm not sure if the last line in the first quoted
paragraph means editable in the true sense or only editable as a complete
object . . .
Please clear it up (since I was one of the lucky ones to start this
debate :-).
--
scott hess
scott@gac.edu
Independent NeXT Developer (Stuart)
GAC Undergrad (Horrid. Simply Horrid. I mean the work!)
<I still speak for nobody>robertw@informix.com (Rob Weinberg) (12/03/90)
In article <1042@toaster.SFSU.EDU> hodges@toaster.SFSU.EDU (John Hodges) writes: >Now that you guys have sifted through some comments, some "realistic" and >some not, is there some agreement that "editable" graphics importing is >not supported on the NeXT? One of my colleagues in publishing here at Informix has a converter for converting MacDraw into FrameMaker graphics, so she can import them that way to the NeXT and modify them. (Frame Technology - (408) 433-3311). OF COURSE, the process is kulgy, and there are serious difficulties in the conversion process. She ends up with text that is all of the wrong size and has to modify it once it gets into Frame. Finally, we ended up just pasting the MacDraw PICTS into PageMaker on the Mac, in a page size just big enough to hold th PICT. Them, we "printed" the one-page PageMaker file to disk as an EPS, which we could import over the network to FrameMaker. (For some reason, the print-to-disk by hitting "f" does not work on our Mac here, so we go this cumbersome route). Of course, you cannot modify the graphics once the are in EPS. All I could think when I saw how munged the PICTs where when we used the special Frame converter software was, deja vu - just like working with PICTs on the Mac itself. Similar problems occur moving PICTs around from program to program on the Mac. >Personally, I would prefer interested parties to send mail to the vendors >who are selling these products, and convince them this capability is needed, >even demanded. Yes, but first let's try to get vendors to come up with a decent conversion standard within the Macintosh community itself, then transport this to NeXT, x-open, or wherever else. Thanks for opening this discussion - it's a non-trivial, frustrating area for publishers. -- * Rob Weinberg, graphics & publishing ***** Does a falling tree make a sound * * {uunet,pyramid}!infmx!robertw ***** if 1: no one hears it * * => Ask me about me. ***** BUT 2: it is not known that * * => Ask Informix about Informix ***** no one hears it? *
robertw@informix.com (Rob Weinberg) (12/04/90)
In article <12169@milton.u.washington.edu> wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Jon Shipley) writes: >Adobe Illustrator (for the Mac) ships with a little utility >called "DrawOver" which changes PICT into PS that Illustrator can edit. > >Since Illustrator will soon be available for the NeXT, I'd assume this would >be one easy to way to get editable PICTs on the NeXT, if you have Illustrator >for both. But note: only certain elements in PICT format can be converted to Illustrator via DrawOver. And, any MacDraw graphic saved as a PICT may loose some of its information. You cannot reliably take your library of Canvas or MacDraw graphics and convert them to Illustrator format. -- * Rob Weinberg, graphics & publishing ***** Does a falling tree make a sound * * {uunet,pyramid}!infmx!robertw ***** if 1: no one hears it * * => Ask me about me. ***** BUT 2: it is not known that * * => Ask Informix about Informix ***** no one hears it? *
mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) (12/06/90)
I would simply like to see something to allow me to move EPS files from my Mac. Maybe I'm missing something simple, which wouldn't surprise me. I have quite a few megs of eps clip art on my Mac, and I would like to port it to the Cube, and use it with Frame. However, after sending the file with Kermit, I can't get either Frame or Yap to read it properly. Thanks a bunch. MikeC BTW, Thanks to all who helped me solve my connectivity problem. -- ___________________________________________________ Michael D. Callaghan,MDC Designs, University of Merryland mikec@wam.umd.edu
glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) (12/06/90)
In article <SCOTT.90Dec3075220@mcs-server.gac.edu> scott@mcs-server.gac.edu (Scott Hess) writes: >In article <12169@milton.u.washington.edu> wjs@milton.u.washington.edu (William Jon Shipley) writes: > > Glenn Reid (ex of Adobe, now Head Cheese of RightBrain software) told me > in e-mail that Adobe Illustrator (for the Mac) ships with a little utility > called "DrawOver" which changes PICT into PS that Illustrator can edit. > > DISCLAIMER: Any misinformation in this post is my fault, not Glenn's. > >Well, maybe. The question is: Does it import it to _editable_ postscript? Yes. It's not really "postscript", actually, it's an "illustrator" file. Illustrator documents just happen to be in valid PostScript syntax. They are indistinguishable from things you drew with Illustrator and saved. Editable PostScript is a holy grail (at the moment). Illustrator files are editable, and they happen to be PostScript, but that's not quite the same thing as editable PostScript, because they aren't arbitrary PostScript files. Here's another way to think about it: "an Illustrator file is always a PostScript file, but a PostScript file isn't always an Illustrator file." I hope that helps. Glenn -- Glenn Reid RightBrain Software glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us PostScript/NeXT developers ..{adobe,next}!heaven!glenn 415-851-1785
scott@NIC.GAC.EDU (Scott Hess) (12/07/90)
In article <1990Dec6.044238.11881@wam.umd.edu> mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) writes:
I would simply like to see something to allow me to move EPS files from
my Mac. Maybe I'm missing something simple, which wouldn't surprise me.
I have quite a few megs of eps clip art on my Mac, and I would like to
port it to the Cube, and use it with Frame.
However, after sending the file with Kermit, I can't get either Frame
or Yap to read it properly.
Brave souls out there can do something about this. The main reason NeXT
don't like some .eps files is that they don't "fully conform". Presumably
with the NeXT's idea of "conformance".
How I've fixed this in general is to load the file in question into
Edit, and use something to generate a NeXT-compatible file on disk
(say, Print a page or two, and save to file). Often the problems
are simply in the format of the first couple lines of the file,
or maybe the last couple. Sometimes adding a single like will make
all the NeXT programs love the file to death . . .
As I said, though, only do this if you are a Brave Soul. This shouldn't
be all that hard for clip art, because most clip art will be in relatively
short documents (ie, a single page), so you need to go through a 300
page manuscript editing page layout commands . . . :-)hodges@toaster.SFSU.EDU (John Hodges) (12/21/90)
In article <9012061632.AA17134@mcs-server.gac.edu> scott@NIC.GAC.EDU (Scott Hess) writes: >In article <1990Dec6.044238.11881@wam.umd.edu> mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) writes: > I would simply like to see something to allow me to move EPS files from > my Mac. Maybe I'm missing something simple, which wouldn't surprise me. > I have quite a few megs of eps clip art on my Mac, and I would like to > port it to the Cube, and use it with Frame. There are lots of ways to incorporate .eps files onto the NeXT. The easiest is to buy FrameMaker for the Mac, read the .eps file on the mac into the FM and see if it will take it there, and then save it locally in maker interchange format (mif). Then bring it to the NeXT and open using FrameMaker. Another way is to read it on the Mac with something like Photoshop which likes EPS and TIFF files and then save it with that program. I have read both formats on the NeXT with no problem. Cricket-Draw may read the EPS files, and the EPS it writes is readable on the NeXT. EDITABLE? Forget it. JBH
aberno@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno) (12/22/90)
hodges@toaster.SFSU.EDU (John Hodges) writes: > In article <9012061632.AA17134@mcs-server.gac.edu> scott@NIC.GAC.EDU (Scott H > >In article <1990Dec6.044238.11881@wam.umd.edu> mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. > > I would simply like to see something to allow me to move EPS files from > > my Mac. Maybe I'm missing something simple, which wouldn't surprise me. > > I have quite a few megs of eps clip art on my Mac, and I would like to > > port it to the Cube, and use it with Frame. > > There are lots of ways to incorporate .eps files onto the NeXT. The easiest i > to buy FrameMaker for the Mac, read the .eps file on the mac into the FM and > see if it will take it there, and then save it locally in maker interchange > format (mif). Then bring it to the NeXT and open using FrameMaker. Another > way is to read it on the Mac with something like Photoshop which likes EPS > and TIFF files and then save it with that program. I have read both formats > on the NeXT with no problem. Cricket-Draw may read the EPS files, and the > EPS it writes is readable on the NeXT. EDITABLE? Forget it. > > JBH EEEEEEK! That's a rather pricey way to import eps files to the NeXT. Why not buy that DataViz product, I think it's called "Mac Link Plus"? Then, you can transfer all sorts of things with ease. I'm pretty sure that eps files are quite easy to send off to the NeXT with this system, and it will also translate Microsoft Word files into WriteNow format.
hodges@toaster.SFSU.EDU (John Hodges) (12/28/90)
In article <9Jaku1w163w@questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno) writes: >> to buy FrameMaker for the Mac, read the .eps file on the mac into the FM and >> see if it will take it there, and then save it locally in maker interchange >> format (mif). Then bring it to the NeXT and open using FrameMaker. Another >> way is to read it on the Mac with something like Photoshop which likes EPS >> and TIFF files and then save it with that program. I have read both formats >> on the NeXT with no problem. Cricket-Draw may read the EPS files, and the >> EPS it writes is readable on the NeXT. EDITABLE? Forget it. >> >> JBH > > >EEEEEEK! That's a rather pricey way to import eps files to the NeXT. > >Why not buy that DataViz product, I think it's called "Mac Link Plus"? > >Then, you can transfer all sorts of things with ease. I'm pretty sure that >eps files are quite easy to send off to the NeXT with this system, and >it will also translate Microsoft Word files into WriteNow format. My posting was based on the following configurations: Mac II at home running FrameMaker, NeXT at work running FrameMaker. DataViz product works with a direct serial line, or a direct modem, not a networked connection. Apologies for inaccuracies. Now, for the DataViz product. I have used DataViz and the product is not suitable for transferring files between UNlike applications. For example, the filter between Word and Writenow leaves out many things from Word that Writenow does not support. This is a general problem with any filter, something which has oft been discussed in this forum. The Word files that I attempted to port using DataViz had to be redone. That is not a very strong positive for the product. Moreover, the company was VERY difficult to work with. I had a question about how well (IF) the product would work with a network, and none of their people knew anything about networks. I have had enough problems transferring Word documents using FrameMaker, mostly the same sort of problem (one application has more/different capability than another), but FM has far superior filters to DataViz. I must admit, I have never tried to transfer an EPS file using this product. Regarding the original posting, it seemed that the poster had already TRIED several means of transferring the EPS file to FM, so I offered a couple of solutions known to have worked in the hope that they were not on his list. I should think that your solution would have been closer to the top of his list. For others of you who have not had the pleasure to try transferring a Word 4.0 document to FrameMaker, here are a couple of glitches that I have reported to Frame. Microsoft supports format sheets which are hierarchical in that they can inherit properties from one another. If you read the Word document with FM, the formats will be retained, however, since FM does not support hierarchical style sheets, any small changes to a style, used throughout the document, will show up as new styles (normalA, normalB, normalC,...,normalN). This is survivable, however, after a while the filter appears to 'give up' and starts to confuse styles in dramatic ways, usually screwing up the document. Of course, since FM does not support tables, all tables get munged. Dates are screwed up usually. Things like that. Often the page layout is affected also. Despite these problems, Frame's filter does an admirable job. I might add that postscripts which are included in a Word file are imported into the Frame document, the only problem that I have seen is a warning message claiming that some things might have gotten confused by the filter. Generally, this appears to be associated with the file size and the style sheets. Personally, I think that resolving the hierarchical nature of style sheets, both for paragraphs and fonts, might resolve these issues. I also think that many other changes can be made to FM, but this response is getting a bit wayward.... Jack Hodges, SFSU