[comp.sys.next] NeXT in Italy II

orlando@esacs.UUCP (Giovanni Orlando) (01/24/91)

	Dear friends, 

		On November 90, I send an email to this group, asking information
		about NeXT in Italy, price for students, perfomance, ecc.  
		My article begin as: 
		( I am planning on buying a NeXT machine, and I am looking
	   for some information (particularly from European users): ...)

        I received a lot of mails, all very interesting and important.
		Thanks, for all!. 

		I verify the 90% of the mails, call to the numbers, ecc.

		This is my Resume':
				   ------

		1. The price for a NeXTstation Base in USA is: $3250.
		   (on Penn State, information not verified).

		2. There are two places to buy a NeXT machine in Europe:
			
	       
            A. Workstation AG (Zurich, Suisse)
               Rene Ehrenbold
               +41 1813 6676 
			
			B. NeXT Computer UK Limited 
			   1 Heathrow Boulevard 
			   286 Bath Road West Drayton 
			   Middlesex UB7 0DQ
	            	
               Tel:		44 81 759 8646
               Fax:		44 81 759 8696

            Surprise #1: On address A, people from Italy, France, Spain
			(South Europe, I think) cannot take the system. Only
			from Austria, Suisse, ecc. can take.

			This is an incredible break, inconsistent and poor for a
            company in an international market, in expansion.

            Surprise #2: On address B, people from Italy, France, ecc.	
			can take the system, BUT STUDENT HAVE NOT DISCOUNT!.

            This is infinitly incredible.!?

			I understand the European Universities are different from
			North American universities, from South American universities,
			from South African universities. And also European Universities 
			are different each other; italians are different from french
			and different from the better the english universities.

			(For example, I have a bad experience about. I take a degree
			in Math in UCV - Caracas (Venezuela) on April 1986. Now, I 
			need to take the italian degree if I want to work as a italian 
			mathetician in universities, for stupid politic).

			But, anyway, students are students where ever !!??.
			This unconsistent politic, means that NeXT don't believe
            in an international approach. Why this?. Is incredible.
            
			Everyone that tell me about NeXT machine tell me that are
			wonderful, powerful and so on, but I said this people are
			worked on a SUN workstation, or a sample UNIX worstation?.
			Problably, No!.


		3. The price for a NeXTstation Base in NeXT UK is: 

				8.199.000 lire (italian money, italian notation).

           For students, teachers and the rest of us.

           Note that, (3250*1150= 3.737.500 lire; 
                       8.199.000/3.737.500 = 2.19 times more). Incredible !!
           1$ = 1150 lire in these days.


	   Conclusions:
	   -----------

       1. The incosistent European NeXT politic, force me to think 
		  better, before take a machine that don't have support in
		  Italy.

				a. No discount for students implies very expensive
				   no color machine.
                b. If problems with disk, or hardware would be a very 
				   difficult problem. Probably NeXT UK, have not experience
				   on it.
                c. NeXT in Europe are stand alone machines, as a yellow 
                   Ferrari in Sahara Desert; wonderful, powerful, but 
				   expensive and alone, in a world of another windows 
				   interfaces (X Windows).

       2. What machine take for X Windows, Ms Dos, with X Windows 
		  enviroment?.

		  After, a lot of questions, read a lot of magazines, I decide
		  for:

				1. Gateway 2000 33 MHz 386 VGA    -----> $3495.
				   (i386, 4 Mb RAM, 200 Mb HARD, 
					14" Color Monitor, 1024x768i
					see BYTE Magazzine 12/90)
				   (probably I take 16" instead 14"
					+ i387)

	            2. UNIX UHC System V release 4.0  -----> $1995
				   (include: All development standard UNIX,
							 Sun OS, troff, NFS
							 X Windows, version 11 release 3,
							 Motif 1.0, Open Look)
                    compatible: SUN OS 4.3, XENIX.
                    (Problably I take the 150 tape backup,
					 add $890).

				Now, 3495+1995=5490 dollars = 6.313.500 lire.

           This is cheap, and completly STANDARD (beautiful and important
		   word). Anyway, I plan to work also with X11 R4.
		   
       3. Why NeXT?.

			NeXT machine have the followings features for itself:

			A. Mach OS (BSD 4.3 compatible).
			B. The Interface Builder. (Included only in the NeXT Cube, for
			    the NeXTstation must be payed ).
            C. Directory Browser, Graphic Mail, a complete Graphical
			   enviroment.
			D. Display Postcript. 
			E. Mathematica. (same politics as point B.).
            F. TeX
            G. Voice (a.Record+Play, b. Voice Mail).
			H. Objective C. 
            I. A Powerful enviroment.

		    The X Windows comunity answer to NeXT are:

			A. For Sun machines are the same (BSD 4.3/4.2), therefore
			   no points to discussion.
			   For Digital,  Ultrix, also BSD. (Berkley Software
			   Distribution).
			   For i386 Workstation, are: UHC System V release 4.0
			   that support BSD, but anyway a lot of UNIX are very
			   nice also: Intel, Interactive, Esix, support X 11
			   release 3 or 4, Motif or Open Look.
            B. A lot of Interface Builders are on the market, for
			   example X Build 1.1, serpent (free in X11 R4).
			   I will work on it!. (for my italian degree in Math).
            C. To Directory Browser, xdir (standard X11 R4).
			   To Next Mail, xmail (source available from 
			   comp.source.x, but not have voice support, neither
			   the same beautiful appearence).
			   xlogin (the same that appears on NeXT).
			   Webster, xwebster (standard in X11 R4).
			   And so on.
            D. To display Postcript, X have xpr, but I dont't
			   work on it. Anyway you have the source, and
			   can complete. I read some mails and the xpr
			   available now, have some problems, because
			   is new. I am sure that would be better the next time.
            E. For Sun and Dec workstations no problems.
			   The problems are for i386 workstations. Now,
			   I know the i386 DOS version, and don't know
			   what kind of X Window interface work on Sun
			   or Dec. Probably on Sun, use OpenWindows.
			   I will work on it!.
            F. For TeX, no problems. In the X11 R4, is included
			   xtex, a TeX interpreter very nice. A special xtex
			   is released for Sun. Anyway a complete TeX package
			   source for UNIX machine is available via ftp from:
			   labrea.stanford.edu. Also, for DOS, Amiga and 
			   any kind of machine.
            G. For Voice, about point a.(Record+Play, change velocity
			   for playing, compose words, play letters), I have an
			   italian card working on DOS. (Audiologic - Padova Italy)
			   Audilogic, tell me that for UNIX support no problems.
			   Therefore on the X Windows enviroment.
			   About point b. voice mail, I don't know, but i think
			   is the same thing.
			   Another important feature about voice are there.
			   Voice Recognition, don't used by NeXT. Audologic
			   tell me that is very complicated but possible.
			   I will work on it!.
            H. NeXT use Objective C, another alone Object oriented
			   enviroment. The public domain g++ (and their brothers
			   gcc, gdb) are free and every one tell well about.
            I. A powerful enviroment?. Sure, but the difference is the
			   philosophy between X and NeXTStep.
				
			   NeXTStep work for NeXT, for make NeXT machine the most
			   appetible possible. And no more.(---->)

			   X (MIT, IBM, and the rest of companies) work for
			   standards.(<----)

			   Note, if you write an application on NeXT, the
			   window appearence is fixed (NeXT appaearence).
			   Instead you on any X station, can create the 
			   applications as you want. Two are the most used
			   now: OpenLook appaerence, and Motif appearence.
			   If you don't like these you can create yours, for your
			   personal use. This is impossible on NeXTStep.

			   Also, I listen about people that take NeXT and
			   use X Windows. After have problems with the mouse
			   buttons, because NeXT have two, instead of SUN or
			   DEC that have three. This situation means that this
			   people wants a standard free enviroment, than the
			   "wonderful" NeXT enviroment.

			   Remember, "First don't means better".
			   All, this opinions are very personal. I speak for me
               neither for this company or some else.


												Thanks.
												Dr. Giovanni Orlando.