orlando@esacs.UUCP (Giovanni Orlando) (01/24/91)
Dear friends,
On November 90, I send an email to this group, asking information
about NeXT in Italy, price for students, perfomance, ecc.
My article begin as:
( I am planning on buying a NeXT machine, and I am looking
for some information (particularly from European users): ...)
I received a lot of mails, all very interesting and important.
Thanks, for all!.
I verify the 90% of the mails, call to the numbers, ecc.
This is my Resume':
------
1. The price for a NeXTstation Base in USA is: $3250.
(on Penn State, information not verified).
2. There are two places to buy a NeXT machine in Europe:
A. Workstation AG (Zurich, Suisse)
Rene Ehrenbold
+41 1813 6676
B. NeXT Computer UK Limited
1 Heathrow Boulevard
286 Bath Road West Drayton
Middlesex UB7 0DQ
Tel: 44 81 759 8646
Fax: 44 81 759 8696
Surprise #1: On address A, people from Italy, France, Spain
(South Europe, I think) cannot take the system. Only
from Austria, Suisse, ecc. can take.
This is an incredible break, inconsistent and poor for a
company in an international market, in expansion.
Surprise #2: On address B, people from Italy, France, ecc.
can take the system, BUT STUDENT HAVE NOT DISCOUNT!.
This is infinitly incredible.!?
I understand the European Universities are different from
North American universities, from South American universities,
from South African universities. And also European Universities
are different each other; italians are different from french
and different from the better the english universities.
(For example, I have a bad experience about. I take a degree
in Math in UCV - Caracas (Venezuela) on April 1986. Now, I
need to take the italian degree if I want to work as a italian
mathetician in universities, for stupid politic).
But, anyway, students are students where ever !!??.
This unconsistent politic, means that NeXT don't believe
in an international approach. Why this?. Is incredible.
Everyone that tell me about NeXT machine tell me that are
wonderful, powerful and so on, but I said this people are
worked on a SUN workstation, or a sample UNIX worstation?.
Problably, No!.
3. The price for a NeXTstation Base in NeXT UK is:
8.199.000 lire (italian money, italian notation).
For students, teachers and the rest of us.
Note that, (3250*1150= 3.737.500 lire;
8.199.000/3.737.500 = 2.19 times more). Incredible !!
1$ = 1150 lire in these days.
Conclusions:
-----------
1. The incosistent European NeXT politic, force me to think
better, before take a machine that don't have support in
Italy.
a. No discount for students implies very expensive
no color machine.
b. If problems with disk, or hardware would be a very
difficult problem. Probably NeXT UK, have not experience
on it.
c. NeXT in Europe are stand alone machines, as a yellow
Ferrari in Sahara Desert; wonderful, powerful, but
expensive and alone, in a world of another windows
interfaces (X Windows).
2. What machine take for X Windows, Ms Dos, with X Windows
enviroment?.
After, a lot of questions, read a lot of magazines, I decide
for:
1. Gateway 2000 33 MHz 386 VGA -----> $3495.
(i386, 4 Mb RAM, 200 Mb HARD,
14" Color Monitor, 1024x768i
see BYTE Magazzine 12/90)
(probably I take 16" instead 14"
+ i387)
2. UNIX UHC System V release 4.0 -----> $1995
(include: All development standard UNIX,
Sun OS, troff, NFS
X Windows, version 11 release 3,
Motif 1.0, Open Look)
compatible: SUN OS 4.3, XENIX.
(Problably I take the 150 tape backup,
add $890).
Now, 3495+1995=5490 dollars = 6.313.500 lire.
This is cheap, and completly STANDARD (beautiful and important
word). Anyway, I plan to work also with X11 R4.
3. Why NeXT?.
NeXT machine have the followings features for itself:
A. Mach OS (BSD 4.3 compatible).
B. The Interface Builder. (Included only in the NeXT Cube, for
the NeXTstation must be payed ).
C. Directory Browser, Graphic Mail, a complete Graphical
enviroment.
D. Display Postcript.
E. Mathematica. (same politics as point B.).
F. TeX
G. Voice (a.Record+Play, b. Voice Mail).
H. Objective C.
I. A Powerful enviroment.
The X Windows comunity answer to NeXT are:
A. For Sun machines are the same (BSD 4.3/4.2), therefore
no points to discussion.
For Digital, Ultrix, also BSD. (Berkley Software
Distribution).
For i386 Workstation, are: UHC System V release 4.0
that support BSD, but anyway a lot of UNIX are very
nice also: Intel, Interactive, Esix, support X 11
release 3 or 4, Motif or Open Look.
B. A lot of Interface Builders are on the market, for
example X Build 1.1, serpent (free in X11 R4).
I will work on it!. (for my italian degree in Math).
C. To Directory Browser, xdir (standard X11 R4).
To Next Mail, xmail (source available from
comp.source.x, but not have voice support, neither
the same beautiful appearence).
xlogin (the same that appears on NeXT).
Webster, xwebster (standard in X11 R4).
And so on.
D. To display Postcript, X have xpr, but I dont't
work on it. Anyway you have the source, and
can complete. I read some mails and the xpr
available now, have some problems, because
is new. I am sure that would be better the next time.
E. For Sun and Dec workstations no problems.
The problems are for i386 workstations. Now,
I know the i386 DOS version, and don't know
what kind of X Window interface work on Sun
or Dec. Probably on Sun, use OpenWindows.
I will work on it!.
F. For TeX, no problems. In the X11 R4, is included
xtex, a TeX interpreter very nice. A special xtex
is released for Sun. Anyway a complete TeX package
source for UNIX machine is available via ftp from:
labrea.stanford.edu. Also, for DOS, Amiga and
any kind of machine.
G. For Voice, about point a.(Record+Play, change velocity
for playing, compose words, play letters), I have an
italian card working on DOS. (Audiologic - Padova Italy)
Audilogic, tell me that for UNIX support no problems.
Therefore on the X Windows enviroment.
About point b. voice mail, I don't know, but i think
is the same thing.
Another important feature about voice are there.
Voice Recognition, don't used by NeXT. Audologic
tell me that is very complicated but possible.
I will work on it!.
H. NeXT use Objective C, another alone Object oriented
enviroment. The public domain g++ (and their brothers
gcc, gdb) are free and every one tell well about.
I. A powerful enviroment?. Sure, but the difference is the
philosophy between X and NeXTStep.
NeXTStep work for NeXT, for make NeXT machine the most
appetible possible. And no more.(---->)
X (MIT, IBM, and the rest of companies) work for
standards.(<----)
Note, if you write an application on NeXT, the
window appearence is fixed (NeXT appaearence).
Instead you on any X station, can create the
applications as you want. Two are the most used
now: OpenLook appaerence, and Motif appearence.
If you don't like these you can create yours, for your
personal use. This is impossible on NeXTStep.
Also, I listen about people that take NeXT and
use X Windows. After have problems with the mouse
buttons, because NeXT have two, instead of SUN or
DEC that have three. This situation means that this
people wants a standard free enviroment, than the
"wonderful" NeXT enviroment.
Remember, "First don't means better".
All, this opinions are very personal. I speak for me
neither for this company or some else.
Thanks.
Dr. Giovanni Orlando.