ach@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Joseph Poirier) (01/22/91)
In article <1991Jan20.214014.18419@uncecs.edu> jfreem@uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman) writes: >>6. Arrogant silence in this newgroup >> Frequency of NeXT's voice on comp.sys.next are countable. > Arrogant postings are also in this news group. What is the reward > for responding? Wow. I am surprised by this response. I can readily see a couple reasons for NeXT to maintain a more definite presence on the net, as opposed to the rather random appearance they currently have. Some of these reasons even have direct rewards for NeXT. First, I read this newsgroup not only to see how the NeXT computer itself is holding up but also to see how NeXT, Inc. responds to customers' problems. Customer support is very important for me. I do not have a NeXT yet, but I am strongly considering buying one once I gather enough money. When, and if, I do, I will end up using it at home. Hence, the support NeXT provides individually is very significant. I find out about this support through two main channels: this newsgroup and talking to people who own a NeXT already. The people here who own a NeXT seem to like the machine a lot until they have to deal with NeXT's customer service. In the past, I recall that NeXT seemed to be selling its service as an advantage over other workstation manufacturers. However, the people who own a NeXT rarely praise NeXT for its support. I see the same general feeling in this newsgroup. Thus, I take any reports that NeXT will provide good customer service with a grain of salt. I tell my feelings to various people. Some of them are also considering a NeXT (usually weighing it against a Mac II). I can only relate secondhand experiences to the people I meet. And here is the main point: People read this newsgroup and relate their experiences and feelings to many other people who do not read this newsgroup. Word of mouth can be powerful. Providing consistent and prompt customer service seems, to me, to be almost a necessity. Isn't that what that other really big computer company concentrates on? And a major reason customers flock to it in hordes? Second, what does it matter whether the posting or the customer is arrogant, rude, obnoxious, friendly, or any of a host of other traits? Did someone forget "The customer is always right"? I have always been much more impressed to see an employee treat a rude or displeased customer with respect and genuine concern than with an unconcerned, one-customer-isn't- important, just-who-do-you-think-you-are attitude. In fact, there have been occasions where the sole reason I have purchased something was because I saw an employee treat a customer "with kid gloves". This is the type of service that I reward. Thus, when Mr. Freeman asks for the reward of responding to an arrogant posting, my answer is that a good, concerned and accurate response that either solves the customers' problem or directs the customer to the solution tells me that the company is concerned about their customers and their products. This reflects back on the company: I feel that is tells me much about the company that sales and product literature doesn't. Uncaring attitudes reflect negatively on the company, of course. That is why I am surprised that NeXT leaves its customers hanging about the status of such things as upgrades and software. It doesn't matter if the posting is arrogant. Just respond to it. You're reward will be that current and potential customers will be more apt to regard the company well. And your responses will be like free, or at least very cheap, advertising. I don't pretend to know about NeXT's marketing plans. I'm not trying to tell NeXT what it is doing wrong -- I certainly have never ran a company and I have been impressed that NeXT was able to crank out such a machine rather quickly. I am simply mentioning that I don't see how good customer support can be bad for the company. And, of course, this needs to be backed up by actions and not just words and promises. Joseph -- Joseph Poirier Internet UUCP ach@mentor.cc.purdue.edu ...!{decwrl, ucbvax}!pur-ee!mentor!ach
madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) (01/22/91)
NeXT should participate on comp.sys.next, if for no other reason, because comp.sys.next is the most extensive and most effective example of the idea of "interpersonal computing" that NeXT is trying to push. Admittedly, the signal to noise ratio here could be a little better, but the signals are damned useful. When I saw NeXT pushing this idea in their marketing blurbs, I was quite pleased since I believe the vision to be correct. This network stuff is what the future is going to be like. And we're there now. Mark Adler madler@pooh.caltech.edu
waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (01/22/91)
In article <4966@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>, lacsap@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Pascal Chesnais) writes: > [...material deleted...] Good comments. c.f.waltrip Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu> Opinions expressed are my own.
jfreem@uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman) (01/22/91)
I guess I should have known it wouldn't last. I finally stepped in one. Well lets see how to dig out. I really debated on whether to leave the last comment in. I knew some people would understand the intent of the remark and some people would read stuff into it. I guess I will know better next time. My personal policy is that I reply by email to most messages. Then, a long series of attack and defense postings are not generated. The bulk of the replies to a given question are email which allows the person who generated the question to post on how their problem was resolved. Failure to post, a flaw that I have, helps push the idea that no one is listening. I do agree with one comment about handling customers. Handling a difficult customer correctly usually generates a customer for life. It is also the right thing to do. In article <4152@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ach@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Joseph Poirier) writes: >In article <1991Jan20.214014.18419@uncecs.edu> jfreem@uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman) writes: >>>6. Arrogant silence in this newgroup >>> Frequency of NeXT's voice on comp.sys.next are countable. >> Arrogant postings are also in this news group. What is the reward >> for responding? > > Wow. I am surprised by this response. I can readily see a couple reasons >for NeXT to maintain a more definite presence on the net, as opposed to the >rather random appearance they currently have. Some of these reasons even >have direct rewards for NeXT. ... 48 lines deleted ... -- Joe Freeman jfreem@uncecs.edu jfreeman@next.com I work for NeXT but this is not an official posting from them. The opinions espressed here are my own and are not shared by my employer or
jack@linus.claremont.edu (01/22/91)
In article <1991Jan21.203407.12952@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes: > > NeXT should participate on comp.sys.next, if for no other reason, because > comp.sys.next is the most extensive and most effective example of the idea > of "interpersonal computing" that NeXT is trying to push. Admittedly, the > signal to noise ratio here could be a little better, but the signals are > damned useful. > I have been on vacation an I have missed most of this discussion so I apologize if what I am about to say has been covered before. NeXT inc., or designated representatives, CANNOT participate on the USENET. Nor can any other company (i.e. Sun, DEC, HP-Apollo, etc.). It is a fundamental limitation of the various Networks (NSFNet, ArpaNet, HEPnet) that they only be used for Education, Research or Sciencetific communications only. It is a limitation evolving around the way that most of these networks were initially (and in many cases still are) are funded. While I'll admit that various newsgroups stretch these charters from time to time (and in some cases, are not carried on certain sites for that reason), generally the people who bend these rules are idividuals and not highly visible public corperations. Since some people have questioned it, I must say that support from NeXT has been great. It is one of the reasons that I decided to buy a NeXT. They have, in my opinion, the best techinical support of any company I have dealt with (DEC, IBM, Sun, and Apple). The "Internet" has shown signs of loosening some of its restrictions. Very recently, permission was given to HP to support its customers via E-Mail on a trial basis. However, the direction that the "Internet" takes is probably up to you and your congressman. If you want to change the way that these Networks, write your congressman. However I would be careful of what you ask for. Consider some of the benifits; No Junk Mail and No Advertisements, which could be lost if the Networks were completely open. ---Jack Jack Stewart Jack@Hmcvax (Bitnet) User Support Coordinator, jack@hmcvax.claremont.edu (Internet) Harvey Mudd College, jack@134.173.4.32 (also Internet) Claremont, Ca. 91711 714-621-8006
dlw@Atherton.COM (David Williams) (01/23/91)
>>In article <1991Jan21.142539.1@linus.claremont.edu>, jack@linus.claremont.edu >>writes: >>In article <1991Jan21.203407.12952@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, >>madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes: >> >> NeXT should participate on comp.sys.next, if for no other reason, because >> comp.sys.next is the most extensive and most effective example of the idea >> of "interpersonal computing" that NeXT is trying to push. Admittedly, the >> signal to noise ratio here could be a little better, but the signals are >> damned useful. >> >I have been on vacation an I have missed most of this discussion so I >apologize if what I am about to say has been covered before. > >NeXT inc., or designated representatives, CANNOT participate on the >USENET. Nor can any other company (i.e. Sun, DEC, HP-Apollo, etc.). >It is a fundamental limitation of the various Networks (NSFNet, >ArpaNet, HEPnet) that they only be used for Education, Research or >Sciencetific communications only. It is a limitation evolving around >the way that most of these networks were initially (and in many cases >still are) are funded. While I'll admit that various newsgroups [rest of paragraph deleted] Hmmm, well If I have questions about Macintosh software, say HyperCard I have virtually the entire HyperCard team at my disposal in comp.sys.mac.hypercard--including the engineering lead for the program! So, while companies are not to do advertisement on USENET other than comp.newprod--individuals may make a personal decision to answer questions and engage in dialog with users of their products. Obviously, Apple has more people, so their number of individual people who choose [on their own time] to help out users is larger. In any case I applaud any and all who do so, from whatever company they belong to. >Since some people have questioned it, I must say that support from >NeXT has been great. It is one of the reasons that I decided to buy a >NeXT. They have, in my opinion, the best techinical support of any >company I have dealt with (DEC, IBM, Sun, and Apple). I must also say that I mailed into NeXT one of the postings regarding the X Window System controversy and not only got an official response number, but a personal email note from one of NeXT's support engineers. I think many people would like to see more NeXT employees take some of their OWN time to talk with their customers in comp.sys.next--this is of course a personal decision on the part of NeXT employes...they also have a lot of work to do to keep their company alive and their technology competitive with offerings from (Apple, Sun, IBM et al). >Jack Stewart Jack@Hmcvax (Bitnet) David Williams NeXTcube owner dlw@atherton.com
waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (01/23/91)
In article <1991Jan21.203407.12952@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes: > > NeXT should participate on comp.sys.next, if for no other reason, because > comp.sys.next is the most extensive and most effective example of the idea > of "interpersonal computing" that NeXT is trying to push. Admittedly, the > signal to noise ratio here could be a little better, but the signals are > damned useful. > While I agree the NeXT posters have been quite helpful and agree that I would like to see NeXT participate, I hate to see good technical people get caught up trying to deal diplomatically with the sort of fuss that can get started in one of these newsgroups. My recommendation would be that all net communications from NeXT come from a designated person skilled in handling marketing communications (and perhaps changing diapers:^) Such a person would know when to followup, when to reply and when simply to lie low. S/he could also go to whatever technical resources were needed to respond to postings. And, in those instances where policy matters were involved, might occasionally be able to post an official policy statement. Most of the readers of newsgroups and posters to newsgroups are responsible, mature, intelligent, informed and desire to be helpful. A few others--probably just as desirous to be helpful, etc.--can't help grinding axes. This is true of any newsgroup. I suspect that when too much of this occurs, it can be harmful to the company whose people are trying to be helpful. Accordingly, I would recommend leaving net communications to the professionals and let the technical gurus do real work. Of course, few companies are going to assign someone to do this so it's probably our loss if anyone DOES take my advice (but how likely is THAT:^) But, anyway, thanks to all you NeXT employees for your help. All of us are grateful whether we sound like it or not. c.f.waltrip Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu> Opinions expressed are my own.
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) (01/23/91)
In article <1991Jan22.172811.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (c.f.waltrip) writes: I don't know anyone who wants to have harrangues, but you know, these discussions have a lot to do with what sort of culture and society are emerging as a result of this kind of forum. To each of the points you raise, there is an alternative viewpoint, one I think should be considered, both by the vendor and by the users here. >While I agree the NeXT posters have been quite helpful and >agree that I would like to see NeXT participate, I hate to >see good technical people get caught up trying to deal >diplomatically with the sort of fuss that can get started in >one of these newsgroups. Why shouldn't they get caught up in it? And *good* technical people especially? Learning how to deal with "fuss" or whatever won't hurt anyone, and more likely will help a lot of people. >My recommendation would be that all net communications from >NeXT come from a designated person skilled in handling >marketing communications (and perhaps changing diapers:^) Passing over the discounting of those you consider infants, I think a designated person is exactly the wrong direction to move. Why not encourage the widest possible participation? >Such a person would know when to followup, when to reply and >when simply to lie low. S/he could also go to whatever >technical resources were needed to respond to postings. Why narrow the participation? Everyone needs the skills of knowing how to manage the styles and problems of this kind of exchange, I think, at least access to it if they so desire. >And, in those instances where policy matters were involved, >might occasionally be able to post an official policy >statement. I think any official pronoucements could be clearly labeled as such; I rather imagine NeXT employees would make sure before speaking for the company, since their necks would be on the block. >Most of the readers of newsgroups and posters to newsgroups >are responsible, mature, intelligent, informed and desire to >be helpful. >A few others--probably just as desirous to be helpful, >etc.--can't help grinding axes. This is true of any >newsgroup. I suspect that when too much of this occurs, it >can be harmful to the company whose people are trying to be >helpful. What kind of harm are you talking about? It's not a sin to grind an axe, and I would say that in our society most people are far too docile already; a little axe-grinding might just be what the doctor ordered to be sure the listeners are listening. No one is really hurt by that, as I see it. >Accordingly, I would recommend leaving net communications to >the professionals and let the technical gurus do real work. Though indeed I am a networking professional, I *strongly* dissent from that view! The main benefit of all this is to open it up, not to sequester it as the exclusive province of a small number of professionals. As it is in fact a fairly open forum, the idea you suggest is unworkable in any case. >But, anyway, thanks to all you NeXT employees for your help. >All of us are grateful whether we sound like it or not. You might consider letting "all of us" speak for ourselves, thank you very much. Most people seem pretty adept at it. <> Experts are people who learn more and more about less and <> less, until eventually they either know everything about <> nothing or nothing about everything. -- Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) (01/23/91)
In article <34099@athertn.Atherton.COM> dlw@Atherton.COM (David Williams) writes: > >I think many people would like to see more NeXT employees take some >of their OWN time to talk with their customers in comp.sys.next--this >is of course a personal decision on the part of NeXT employes...they also >have a lot of work to do to keep their company alive and their technology >competitive with offerings from (Apple, Sun, IBM et al). I do appreciate NeXT employees taking their own time and post articles in this newsgroup. However, it may make a lot of sense for NeXT to have a FULLY PAID employee (or two) in their work time to monitor all reasonable messages and alert appropriate people with the summary of suggestions made in comp.sys.next. (May be this is just the sort of work for good student consultants.) Responses to the questions raised may be put into something like NextAnswers, or into a corner of NeXT on Campus, etc. Since all the messages posted here are public domain data, I don't think this causes any problem with the Internet restrictions mentioned in an earlier posting. If anybody has problems with NeXT analyzing comp.sys.next directly off the net, then they can buy the data from LightHouse Designs. Izumi Ohzawa, izumi@pinoko.berkeley.edu (NeXTmail) Izumi Ohzawa [ $@Bg_78^=;(J ] Group in Neurobiology/School of Optometry, 360 Minor Hall University of California, Berkeley, California 94720
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) (01/23/91)
In article <1991Jan23.063402.28521@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >I do appreciate NeXT employees taking their own time and >post articles in this newsgroup. Yes, that's definitely something to appreciate. >However, it may make a lot of sense for NeXT to have a FULLY >PAID employee (or two) in their work time to monitor all >reasonable messages and alert appropriate people with the >summary of suggestions made in comp.sys.next. >(May be this is just the sort of work for good student > consultants.) Good ideas, I think, though not completely free of problems, from NeXT's point of view. It isn't their fault that the world is full of sharks, or that they must swim in the same pond with those sharks. The competition is keen, and a small mistake in judgment about what information is company-confidential could cost the firm its life. IBM and DEC can survive a lot of mistakes, probably; NeXT's grip on survival is somewhat more tenuous. This is not necessarily a bad thing, after all; they are forced by this to be responsive to their market. >Responses to the questions raised may be put into something >like NextAnswers, or into a corner of NeXT on Campus, etc. > >Since all the messages posted here are public domain data, I >don't think this causes any problem with the Internet >restrictions mentioned in an earlier posting. A minor correction of fact: postings are not public domain. Writers do not relinquish copyright by publishing; those rights do not require proper notice, though proper notice makes it easier to prevail in court, if it came to that. <> You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out <> of focus. -- Mark Twain -- Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
lclarke@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Lawrence Clarke) (01/24/91)
> NeXT inc., or designated representatives, CANNOT participate on the > USENET. Nor can any other company (i.e. Sun, DEC, HP-Apollo, etc.). > It is a fundamental limitation of the various Networks (NSFNet, > ArpaNet, HEPnet) that they only be used for Education, Research or > Sciencetific communications only. It is a limitation evolving around > the way that most of these networks were initially (and in many cases > still are) are funded. While I'll admit that various newsgroups > stretch these charters from time to time (and in some cases, are not > carried on certain sites for that reason), generally the people who > bend these rules are idividuals and not highly visible public > corperations. > > > Jack Stewart Jack@Hmcvax (Bitnet) > User Support Coordinator, jack@hmcvax.claremont.edu (Internet) > Harvey Mudd College, jack@134.173.4.32 (also Internet) > Claremont, Ca. 91711 714-621-8006 If NeXT cannot participate on internet, how about Compuserve ???? Borland, Microsoft, Lotus, etc. all have areas on Compuserve..... NeXT are you listening ? Don't reply though ..... /==============================================================\ | lclarke@questor.wimsey.bc.ca | c/o TRIUMF Operations | | larry@triumfcl.bitnet | University of B.C. Canada | | Compuserve: 70441,1776 | 4004 Wesbrook Mall | | Phone: +1 604 275-5902 | Vancouver, British Columbia | | FAX: +1 604 275-4184 | Canada V6T 2A3 | \==============================================================/
asmith@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Adam Smith) (01/24/91)
lclarke@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Lawrence Clarke) writes: > If NeXT cannot participate on internet, how about Compuserve ???? > > Borland, Microsoft, Lotus, etc. all have areas on Compuserve..... > > NeXT are you listening ? Don't reply though ..... > NO! NO! NO! NO! NO NO NO NO NO NO ! Don't listen to him! It's the booze talking! Ignore this man! My apologies to Lawrence, but I'm terrified that this is what will happen. CI$ is the antithesis of the NeXT. It is archaic, cryptic, over-priced, ect etc. I was (VERY) briefly thnking the same thing, but when I came to my senses I realized that what is probably needed is a NET specifically for NeXT. Something that will exploit the brilliant NeXT interface. I use CI$ with my MS-DOS machine and it is never anything short of an ordeal. In a perfect world, NeXT would assist in the formation of a new NET that would be th next generation of the BBS. Regrettably, the INTERNET is so close to being what is needed and carries the extra benefit of being accessable to most of the proverbial movers and shakers in the NeXT developers world. It is, however, unavailable to J. Average User, and is limited (quite rightfully so) to the academic and scientific world. I'd be interested in hearing anyone's ideas an how "NeXTuserve" might work. adam p.s. My Cube's on the way! My Cube's on the way! (sorry, but I HAVE to tell someone who knows what that means.) ######################################################################## Adam Smith Graphic Artist - Bad Mood Guy -> REFUSE TO FIGHT! The Chameleon Papers Vancouver, BC CANADA "Just when you thought it was safe to admit you're a human being..." ########################################################################
sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) (01/24/91)
In article <BFD0V1w164w@questor.wimsey.bc.ca> lclarke@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Lawrence Clarke) writes: >If NeXT cannot participate on internet, how about Compuserve ???? Alternatively (and better, in my opinion), next (and other companies) can make a news heirarchy, and feed it through uunet. If a site is interested in the heirarchy (say, next.aLl), they can either get it by calling uunet, or from some site that gets it (however they get it). That covers news. Email can be handled similarly, by going through uucp feeds only. -- Sean Eric Fagan | "I made the universe, but please don't blame me for it; sef@kithrup.COM | I had a bellyache at the time." -----------------+ -- The Turtle (Stephen King, _It_) Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan24.092648.19530@kithrup.COM> sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:
Alternatively (and better, in my opinion), next (and other
companies) can make a news heirarchy, and feed it through uunet.
If a site is interested in the heirarchy (say, next.aLl), they can
either get it by calling uunet, or from some site that gets it
Sounds like you want to create a biz.comp.next. The "biz" hierarchy
fits your description almost exactly. There are no restrictions or
procedures for group creation in biz, so just do it.
Your next problem will be persuading NeXT to post stuff there and
making it all useful. Telebit and DEC seem to like it well enough.dennisg@kgw2.bwi.WEC.COM (Dennis Glatting) (01/26/91)
i wonder if Sun participates in comp.sys.sun?
i wonder if apple participates in comp.sys.mac?
how about all the other comp.sys... like hp, sequent,... ??
--
..!uunet!kgw2!dennisg | Dennis P. Glatting
dennisg@Xetron.COM | X2NeXT developer
| NeXT/C++/Objective-C wieniene201ph@prism.gatech.EDU (Halvorson,Peter J) (01/26/91)
In article <1895@kgw2.bwi.WEC.COM> dennisg@Xetron.COM writes: >i wonder if Sun participates in comp.sys.sun? Yes >i wonder if apple participates in comp.sys.mac? Who cares -- Peter Halvorson -- Nuclear Engineering Program Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ne201ph Internet: ne201ph@prism.gatech.edu -- peter@fission.gatech.edu
mfi@serc.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Interrante) (01/26/91)
In article <20364@hydra.gatech.EDU> ne201ph@prism.gatech.EDU (Halvorson,Peter J) writes: >In article <1895@kgw2.bwi.WEC.COM> dennisg@Xetron.COM writes: >>i wonder if Sun participates in comp.sys.sun? > >Yes > >>i wonder if apple participates in comp.sys.mac? > >Who cares Apple does participate. Many people care. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Interrante Software Engineering Research Center mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu CIS Department, University of Florida 32611 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from a west Texas farmer "status quo is Latin for the mess we're in."
mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) (01/26/91)
In article <1895@kgw2.bwi.WEC.COM> dennisg@Xetron.COM writes: > >i wonder if Sun participates in comp.sys.sun? >i wonder if apple participates in comp.sys.mac? I believe that apple does not participate as an official company presence; that is, noone that I know of is designated as an official spokesperson or liaison on comp.sys.mac (or other apple-related news groups), but apple people very definitely review and comment on information posted to those groups. For example, Larry Rosenstein who knows a lot about MacApp, often comments on MacApp-related issues, and Andrew Shalit, who is rather well-acquainted with Macintosh Common Lisp, often comments on Lisp-related issues.
cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) (01/28/91)
In article <998@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes:
of 52 articles in comp.sys.sun, 1 came from Sun. Thus
the Sun:noise ratio is 1% (with a standard deviation around 10% though,
for this sample).
How do you get 1% from 1 out of 52?
How did you define your error so that you could
calculate your std dev?dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (01/29/91)
In article <998@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: >for this sample). Comp.sys.mac had only 16 articles, none of which >were from Apple. You didn't look in the right place, IMHO. On our system, comp.sys.mac.programmer had 341 articles, 25 of which were from Apple employees. When I post questions to comp.sys.mac.programmer, an Apple employee nearly always responds, sometimes with stuff that is documented nowhere, and that a PR-type would never know. I don't think that's because of company policy; rather, Apple people are answering questions out of the goodness of their hearts, just like the NeXT people who post here. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) (01/29/91)
In article <1991Jan28.192742.24563@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes:
When I post questions to comp.sys.mac.programmer, an Apple employee nearly
always responds, sometimes with stuff that is documented nowhere, and that
a PR-type would never know.
I don't think that's because of company policy; rather, Apple people are
answering questions out of the goodness of their hearts, just like the
NeXT people who post here.
Sigh. at last a bit of sanity on this well-worn issue.
Of course, if
those who wondered why corporations don't post to the net had read
the newnewsuser netiquette postings when they first started to use
Usenix, they would understand that commercial use of the net is a
gigantaur no-no.. and of course, this doesn't prohibit a company's
employees from posting (as individuals) nor does it prohibit a
company from reading the newsgroups.
The fact that you don't see
posts direct from commercial enterprises may, in fact, be a reflection
of a heightened sensitivity and awareness on the part of the
company in question.
One could look at the newsgroups and construct a list of the
commercial enterprises whose employees take their own time to help
users "out here" and use that as an indication of the companies which
care about their customers. At least one could if one had half a mind. to.koverber@hawk.ulowell.edu (Kurt Overberg) (01/31/91)
In article <998@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: >In article <1895@kgw2.bwi.WEC.COM> dennisg@Xetron.COM writes: >> >>i wonder if Sun participates in comp.sys.sun? >>i wonder if apple participates in comp.sys.mac? While reading comp.sys.amiga.programmer eariler today, out of about 40 articles, 5 were from one person at commodore, and 5 were from a different person at commodore (both tech support). Both guys were programmers, and were very helpful (they answered some of MY questions...) >-- >Barry Merriman >UCLA Dept. of Math >UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research >barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) +--------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+ | #include <stddisclaim.h> | "There once was a time when ( ACK ! ) | | These opinions are mine! | my life was so wonderful..." (_______) | | Mine! Mine! Who else | "Then they sent me away, taught me o | | would want them? Not | how to be logical...sensible, o | |--------------------------| rational, a vegetable..." _ /| | |koverber@hawk.ulowell.edu | -Supertramp \`o.O' | +--------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+