herndon@sctc.com (William R. Herndon) (02/01/91)
About two weeks ago I purchased a Maxtor XT8702S disk drive and
installed it in my 030 cube in place of my swapdisk. Soon after
I used builddisk to install my system software on the Maxtor.
No problem, builddisk recognized my disk, its parameters, and built
the software just fine. However, the first time that I tried to
boot off the Maxtor, the boot sequence threw up a small window
entitled "MACH Operating System", in which a shell was running,
and leaving me in single user mode. Fortunately, I know a few things
about UNIX and forced the machine to continue the boot sequence by
going to multi-user mode by issuing an "init 2" command. Well, when
the machine finished starting the system services, I was left with
a login panel and a cursor that the window manager had no control
over. In fact, the keyboard was locked also.
I then tried to boot again, this time interrupting the boot sequence
in the ROM monitor. I executed:
b sd(0,0,0)
which left me in single user mode again, executed an "init 2" to start
multi-user boot, and viola', I'm up and running, with control of the
cursor and keyboard, I might add.
But what is the problem? I think that it may have to do with a non-
existant network, but I am just guessing.
FLAMES ON:
Businessland, where I bought my machine, has no idea what the problem
might be. NeXT won't let me talk to their technical support people
because I bought my machine at Businessland. I asked Businessland
to talk to NeXT, and they said that NeXT's reply was something like:
"We don't support third party hard drives <blah> <blah> <blah>..."
Well, I don't give a damn about whether or not NeXT supports third
party hard drives. If the problem were with the hard drive, then
I don't think it is likely that NeXTStep and builddisk would both
correctly recognize my disk, much less let me build a release on it,
and then ( eventually ) boot from it!! The problem must have something
to do with the boot configuration paramaters or an error encountered
in the boot sequence,
AND NeXT DAMN WELL BETTER SUPPORT THEIR OWN SOFTWARE!!!!
FLAMES OFF:
I've just about had it the total lack of support from NeXT. Will
somebody please help me.
Thanks in advance.
- Max
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R. Herndon
Secure Computing Technology Corp.
Once you've had black,
herndon@sctc.com you'll never go back...NeXT
(612) 482-7431
bennett@mp.cs.niu.edu (Scott Bennett) (02/02/91)
In article <1991Feb1.154516.5275@sctc.com> herndon@sctc.com (William R. Herndon) writes: > > About two weeks ago I purchased a Maxtor XT8702S disk drive and > [text deleted --SJB] > entitled "MACH Operating System", in which a shell was running, > and leaving me in single user mode. Fortunately, I know a few things > about UNIX and forced the machine to continue the boot sequence by > going to multi-user mode by issuing an "init 2" command. Well, when That is SysV usage. I wouldn't have dared guess what it would do to a BSD-derived system. Thanks for the info. The correct way to change to multiuser mode in a BSD-derived UNIX is to exit the single-user shell (i.e. hit ^D). The system will then process /etc/rc. > the machine finished starting the system services, I was left with > a login panel and a cursor that the window manager had no control > over. In fact, the keyboard was locked also. Well, I can't explain this, but I'm certainly not surprised to see weird things happening after you started up a second copy of init. > > I then tried to boot again, this time interrupting the boot sequence > in the ROM monitor. I executed: > > b sd(0,0,0) > > which left me in single user mode again, executed an "init 2" to start Again, this is *not* the right thing to do. However, when you have the ROM monitor prompt, check the system parameters ("p" if I remember right.) A default boot command like b sd sdmach -s is what you normally would enter if you *wanted* to start up in single- user mode. If the ROM monitor's current default boot parameters are set such that they result in a command equivalent to the above, then you'll need to change those values to give you what you want. The "-s" is the part that results in single-user mode as opposed to the normal startup into multiuser mode. > multi-user boot, and viola', I'm up and running, with control of the > cursor and keyboard, I might add. > > But what is the problem? I think that it may have to do with a non- > existant network, but I am just guessing. > > FLAMES ON: > > [flame deleted, but my sympathies left in --SJB] > > FLAMES OFF: > > I've just about had it the total lack of support from NeXT. Will > somebody please help me. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > - Max > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >William R. Herndon >Secure Computing Technology Corp. > Once you've had black, >herndon@sctc.com you'll never go back...NeXT >(612) 482-7431 > > Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG Systems Programming Northern Illinois University DeKalb, Illinois 60115 ********************************************************************** * Internet: bennett@cs.niu.edu * * BITNET: A01SJB1@NIU * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * "WAR is the HEALTH of the STATE" --Albert Jay Nock (I think:-) * **********************************************************************
waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb1.154516.5275@sctc.com>, herndon@sctc.com (William R. Herndon) writes: [...background material in which he describes a particular problem deleted...] > FLAMES ON: > > Businessland, where I bought my machine, has no idea what the problem > might be. NeXT won't let me talk to their technical support people > because I bought my machine at Businessland. Yeah, this is a real bind. I remember seeing a NeXT User Journal article by a developer who decided to go into Businessland and see what kind of sales attention he received. He complained bitterly that he was steered towards Macs and PCs and found that the sales people didn't even know how to log on to a NeXT. This was some time ago (in the days of the 030 cubes), the situation may have improved and the experience related may not have been typical anyway. But it would hardly be surprising if it is still a typical situation. Much has been done by NeXT to make it possible for developers to put together "commodity" applications. That is, applications which almost any user can install and interface with without requiring technical support. Much has also been done to make UNIX(tm) more of a commodity operating system...but much more needs to be done. One possible approach: NeXT has put together pre-configured systems. Probably you should be able to take them out of the box, plug the pieces together, power it on and find yourself at some generic user desktop from which you could access all installed applications. NeXT could also furnish an install application utility that developers could write to and this application could be accessed from this "commodity" interface so a naive user could install applications without knowing anything about the underlying operating system. This same "commodity" mode could be used by sales people at retail stores to run demos (a whiz-bang multi-media sales pitch could start running at boot-up). In environments where support is available, the NeXT could be set up in true multi-user and network mode by a system administrator. For in-between users, NeXT should offer a support contract at a compensatory rate and also offer support services on a "charge-by-the-minute" basis (a "900" number). This would not co-opt dealers from offering their own support services but would provide a price umbrella that should keep charges at a reasonable level. There are major advantages to offering ones own support, however. You can quickly get a feel for what needs to be fixed or improved. This includes documentation and the intuitiveness of various interfaces. In summary (since this has gotten somewhat longer than I intended), NeXT may want to consider providing: 1. a naive user interface that completely hides Unix from the user (including the sales people). 2. some canned multi-media sales presentations hosted on the NeXT (maybe they already do...I've just never seen one). 3. technical support services...both contract and "metered". c.f.waltrip Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu> Opinions expressed are my own.
mfi@serc.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Interrante) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb4.131821.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes: > In summary (since this has gotten somewhat longer than I intended), > NeXT may want to consider providing: > 1. a naive user interface that completely hides Unix > from the user (including the sales people). > 2. some canned multi-media sales presentations hosted > on the NeXT (maybe they already do...I've just never seen one). > 3. technical support services...both contract and > "metered". I completely agree that point 3 is very important, didnt I just hear the Microsoft is offering 900 support service? I think that this service will reward NeXT through: (1) PR for being a good service-oriented company. (2) getting immediate feedback as to where the problems lie (see the work by Deming on QC data and its value) and where improvements can be made. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Interrante Software Engineering Research Center mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu CIS Department, University of Florida 32611 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from a west Texas farmer "status quo is Latin for the mess we're in."
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb4.131821.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes: >In article <1991Feb1.154516.5275@sctc.com>, herndon@sctc.com >(William R. Herndon) writes: > In summary (since this has gotten somewhat longer than I intended), > NeXT may want to consider providing: > 1. a naive user interface that completely hides Unix > from the user (including the sales people). Already done. Unix is so far from the user that it is even sometimes a bit too far away from my taste, but as it is now noone is forced to use any UNIX features if you run a standalone system. If you run a network you will have a network administrator anyway most of the time. Installation of programs is supported with the new Installer.app. so that's no problem either. > 2. some canned multi-media sales presentations hosted > on the NeXT (maybe they already do...I've just never seen one). see GuidedTour on 2.0 (but use it wisely, it installs a new user. ) > 3. technical support services...both contract and > "metered". Developers get a well very competent but not always quick support. But the problem is that if they don't have enough staff for developers how should they even be close to have enough staff for all their customers as well (Please no dirty jokes about the developer/user ratio...) Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet