mrl@drutx.UUCP (LongoMR) (11/24/84)
<> I have read a multitude of articles on what the netters consider to be true sports cars. I have noticed that most all of the opinions lean towards new cars. I don't wish to imply that newer cars are not nice, I have driven several and have been reasonably impressed with many of them, but doesn't anyone talk or care about the older "special interest" cars anymore (i.e. flat out accelleration type fun!). I traded my 1982 Mazda RX7-GSL with 15000 miles, stored in the winter, pampered in the summer, not driven in the rain, etc., for a supercharged 1966 Shelby GT350, and, though the RX-7 was a very nice car, I don't miss it when I look in the garage and see the Shelby sitting there. I miss it even less when I take it out on a sunny day and blow the doors off of anything I come up against. This has lead to more than one roadside chat with the driver of the newer competition, and it has always been an enjoyable experience. For all the time I drove the RX-7, although it was a nice car, I never got to have a conversation with anyone about cars, driving, etc. Something else that makes me miss the RX-7 less and less is the fact that although I got top dollar for the car when I sold it (11K), I still lost money over the 2 1/2 years I owned the car. The Shelby is worth at least as much now as it was when I bought it (i.e. I didn't pay a penalty of a couple of thousand dollars just for driving the car off the new car lot) and the value will go up in time, not down. I have owned a few new cars in the past and have ALWAYS lost money. Yes, I could have pampered them for 20 years and got my investment back, but it doesn't seem reasonable when there is an easier way. Doesn't anyone else feel this way? How about some real (honest) stories about older special interest cars on the net. I, for one, would enjoy a change of pace. It would be interesting to see what kind of rare and special automobiles exist out there! Mark Longo (drutx!mrl) AT&T ISL, Denver
prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) (11/26/84)
[vrrrrooooommm.... vrroooooommmm....] First off, let me say that in the very few short years I have been on this Earth (37 to be exact!) and an even fewer number years that I have been purchasing automobiles, I have never owned a new car. The current pride (!!??) consist of the following; 1972 Corvette Convertible. Purchased in March of 1973, I paid approximately $4400. I value it currently at $8000. 1964 Corvette Coupe. This is an original factory fuel injected car with knock-off wheels and optional interior. Purchased in 1975 for $3400, I put over 400 hours of my time and approximately $1000 in parts to restore the car just after I bought it. I value it currently at $14,000. By the way, it would blow the doors off your Shelby, Mark, so watch out!! 1957 Rolls-Royce Bentley. Purchased about 8 months ago, I have had little to do on this car other than cleaning and waxing. I did put some wide white sidewall tires on it... This car was purchased with trades over the last two years. First I bought a 74 Cadillac, kept it for about 3 months and sold it at a profit. I used that money to buy a 76 Cadillac Eldorado that had been a repossession with a bad transmission for $1500. About $400 later the 76 was sent down the road in trade for a 76 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. This car had been chauffeur driven and belonged to a monsignor somewhere near Chicago. I had the 76 repainted and drove it for a year when I located the Bentley. The 76 was traded in on the Bentley (got about $5500 for it!) and thats how the Bentley came to be. I value the Bentley at $17,000. 1976 Pontiac. This car was bought back in the days of gasoline crunch. The car has a 400 cubic inch engine in it and the dealer almost begged me to take the car from him!! Anyway, we still have the Pontiac and it gets driven to work daily (approx. five minutes from home). I have no idea what this car is worth, but I know I have gotten my moneys worth out of it! I really enjoy going out and buying used cars. I make sure that I always get across the idea that I don't need their car and that I am just "looking around". This seems to get their sales juices going! I remember a 74 Nova that I was looking at, I headed for the exit door three times! Each time the guy would say "let me go talk to my boss and see what I can do"! When they will let you walk out the door, you know you have them at their lowest dollar. I even got one of the fellows here at work to let me buy a new car for him, a brand new Oldmobile! That was fun! I went through 4 sales people, they passed me off on each other till I finally got to the top salesman. It took about 2 1/2 hours to get to this level. I left the place and waited for them to call me. When they called I told them that I was not interested in the car but that the fellow that was with me would be intrested if he could get the same deal. They sold him the car! You hear quite a few horror stories about used cars, but I love 'em, and can't say that I've gotten a lemon yet! Phil Gunsul -- AT&T/CP Montgomery Works -- Cornet 392-4485 (312) 859-4485
mrl@drutx.UUCP (LongoMR) (11/27/84)
<> Blow the doors off my shelby?? HA! You have got a fast car. I won't debate that. I have a list of the fastest 50 of all time that I got out of some magazine recently and the 1964 Corvette with the 327 FI engine is listed as #41. The car tested was a 327 FI, 4 speed w/4.11 rear. It did the 1/4 in 14.2 sec at an even 100 mph. (But, however) the Shelby with the paxton supercharger, automatic transmission (mine is a 4-speed top-loader) and air conditioner (which I don't have) with a Paxton supercharger blowing into a 715 CFM 4V on top of a Shelby modified 289 hipo Ford engine and 3.89 rear came in 21st turning the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds at 102 mph. It would indeed be an interesting race. Mark
djl@fisher.UUCP (Dan Levin N6BZA ) (11/27/84)
>By the way, it would blow the doors off your Shelby, Mark, >so watch out!! Got to doubt this. Not to open a painfull subject, but that blown 306HP 289 would put out ~400 BHP, and in a 2700 lb. curb weight car, that would leave most any 3100 lb. Corvette in its dust. Just take a look at the B Production results for '65-'66, and you will see normally aspirated GT-350's placing second between the Cobras and the injected Corvettes. -- ***dan {allegra,astrovax,princeton,twg}!fisher!djl The misplaced (What *are* those trees doing??) Californian
wilhite@usceast.UUCP (Robert Wilhite) (11/28/84)
[ACK!]
Just the article I was waiting for! I enjoy reading about the new
machinery, but my heart was captured by an "older woman"..
(Hmmm.. perhaps we should find some empirical definition of OLD?)
I have a '68 Jaguar XKE.. bought from a friend in Birmingham. (Alas,
I'm not the original owner, but at age 8 I was in no condition to
drive.) I'm not sure what aspect of the car caught my interest, but
I've come to appreciate many things about older cars..
* Metal. Look under the hood of the new cars these days.. LOTS of
plastic -- and on the bumpers, too. >yuk< On the older cars
it's all metal. I realize that plastic's much lighter & helps
the ol' MPG, but I like a car that's built to last. (Which
leads to..)
* Reliability. Older cars, with reasonable care, will out-do
the new ones. Certainly there are exceptions (the new Mercedes,
Volvo, and just-about-anything-Japanese seem to have a good rep.),
but old cars are easier to keep running. I do my own mechanical
work on the Jag -- something I don't think I could manage on one
of the new "hi-tech, ultra-compact" jobs.
* Resale. I bought my Jag knowing that at any point in the future
I could (can) sell it and recover the full amount. Probably more.
The same goes for the Shelby's, 'Vette's, Healy's, and other
collectibles, but even the not-so-collectible oldies have done
all the depreciating they'll do.
* Turning radius? Make that head-turning radius. A new car has a
head-turning radius of about ten feet, and that's mostly people
reading the sticker to see "how much it hurt". On the other hand,
nearly every time I stop somewhere, people will ask me about my
car, share anecdotes, etc. (This I find to be most rewarding.)
[Hmm.. You s'pose this "old-car-syndrome" is hereditary? My father has a ]
['66 Chevy Impala (original owner), going on 300K miles! (The CAR, not him)]
Yes, I have an "old" car. REAL metal, REAL chrome, REAL spokes and spin-offs,
REAL low gas-mileage, etc. It won't "blow the doors" off of the others, but
it's no slouch. Wouldn't trade it for the world. I have many tales to
tell (most of which belong in net.singles ;-) but I've rambled enough....
---------
Robert Wilhite @ USC - East (the one with the football team)
^^^^
..akgua!usceast!wilhiteknutson@ut-ngp.UUCP (Jim Knutson) (11/28/84)
All this "blow your doors off" business is getting a little boring. We all
know that the Muscle car era produced big and fast V8s and that everyone who
has one thinks theirs is the fastest, but I'm getting tired of hearing the
same tune ("My car is faster than yours is..." sung to your favorite dog food
commercial). Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the finesse of some
of the older classics, body styles today (compared to yesterday and future
trends), technological improvements (plastic/alloy rims), etc.
Fast cars are fun (I've had a couple myself) but lets hear something new.jeepcj2a@fluke.UUCP (Dale Chaudiere) (11/28/84)
Yes, there are old car lovers out here. The RX-7 is a sharp car, but they are just to common to draw the conversations you get driving your Shelby. I have always been more impressed with a well maintained, restored or customized older car, than a new one that anyone with a fat wallet could obtain. My wife's first car was a 1964.5 Mustang Coupe. We repainted it and rebuilt the 289. During the gas crunch we sold it and bought a 1971 Opel GT. Last summer I dropped a factory rebuilt engine in it. My car is a 1946 Jeep CJ2A. I have owned it now for 10 years. Last summer I installed a 1964 225 V6 and installed a new suspension. I payed $1000. dollars for the jeep orginally and dumped maybe $5000 into it over 10 years (not counting gas and oil). Not only do I enjoy the conversation that the older cars bring, but I can not justify the cost of a new car for what you get. Here in Wa. State the yearly licensing fees for a new car kill you. A new jeep equipped like mine would cost ~$10000 and the licensing fees would be over $200 a year. By the way Wa. State is an old car buffs dream. They do not salt the roads here, when and if it snows. I have seen more older cars still on the road here than anywhere else in the country. .
hoo@teldata.UUCP (11/29/84)
> <> > > I have read a multitude of articles on what the netters consider to > be true sports cars. I have noticed that most all of the opinions lean > towards new cars. I don't wish to imply that newer cars are not nice, > I have driven several and have been reasonably impressed with many of them, > but doesn't anyone talk or care about the older "special interest" cars > anymore (i.e. flat out accelleration type fun!). I traded my 1982 Mazda > RX7-GSL with 15000 miles, stored in the winter, pampered in the summer, > not driven in the rain, etc., for a supercharged > 1966 Shelby GT350, and, though the RX-7 > was a very nice car, I don't miss it when I look in the garage and see the > Shelby sitting there. I miss it even less when I take it out on > a sunny day and blow the doors off of anything I come up against. This > has lead to more than one roadside chat with the driver of the > newer competition, and it has always been an enjoyable experience. > For all the time I drove the RX-7, although it was a nice car, I > never got to have a conversation with anyone about cars, driving, etc. > Something else that makes me miss the RX-7 less and less is the fact that > although I got top dollar for the car when I sold it (11K), I still lost money > over the 2 1/2 years I owned the car. The Shelby is worth at least as much > now as it was when I bought it (i.e. I didn't pay > a penalty of a couple of thousand > dollars just for driving the car off the new car lot) > and the value will go up in time, not down. I have > owned a few new cars in the past and have ALWAYS lost money. Yes, I could > have pampered them for 20 years and got my investment back, but it doesn't > seem reasonable when there is an easier way. Doesn't anyone else > feel this way? How about some real (honest) stories about older > special interest cars on the net. I, for one, would enjoy a change > of pace. It would be interesting to see what kind of rare and special > automobiles exist out there! > Mark Longo (drutx!mrl) > AT&T ISL, Denver *I posted an article a while back that listed the 50 Fastest "Muscle Cars" to see if there was anyone out there who was interested....however since I didn't see any responses, I suspect that the article never made it out. So, I'll re-issue again ( with apologies if everyone's seen it). Mark, how about some more info on your Shelby? Here's some information that maybe of interest to all you "Muscle Car" enthusiats out there...This table is derived from an article entitled "The 50 Fastest Musclecars" in the Nov 1984 issue of CAR REVIEW magazine. If there is enought response and interest, I may post the entire article later. THE 50 FASTEST Number Car year/make e.t./mph engine trans weight source ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 1966 427 Cobra 12.20/118 427 8V 4-spd 2529 CD11/65 2 1966 427 Corvette 12.80/112 427 4V 4-spd 3160 CD11/65 3 1970 BUICK GS STAGE 1 13.38/105.5 455 4V auto 3810 MT 1/70 4 1968 427 Corvette 13.41/109.5 427 6V* 4-spd 3285 CL 6/68 5 1968 Hemi Charger 13.50/105 426 8V auto 4035 CD11/67 6 1969 Hemi Road Runner 13.54/105.1 426 8V auto 3938 CD 1/69 7 1969 Hemi Charger 500 13.68/104.8 426 8V 4-spd 4025 CL 4/69 8 1971 Hemi Super Bee 13.73/104 426 8V auto 4083 MT12/70 9 1970 Hemi 'Cuda ?13.70/101.2 426 8V auto na MT 9/69 10 1965 Catalina 2+2 13.80/106 421 6V 4-spd 4155 CD 3/65 11 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80/104.2 440 6V auto 3845 CL 7/69 12 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80/104 351 4V 4-spd 3452 MT 1/71 13 1968 Royal Bobcat GTO 13.80/104 428 4V auto 3784 CD 2/68 14 1966 Hemi Satellite 13.80/104 426 8V 4-spd 3954 CD 4/66 15 1970 SS454 Chevelle 13.81/103.8 454 4V auto 3885 CD 2/70 16 1969 Cyclone CJ 13.86/101.7 428 4V auto 3880 MT 1/69 17 1962 Catalina 13.90/107 421 4V 4-spd 4070 MT 5/62 18 1969 Mach 1 Mustang CJ 13.90/103.3 428 4V auto 3420 CL 3/69 19 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99/101 429 4V 4-spd 3586 MT 2/70 20 1970 Hemi Challenger 14.00/104 426 8V auto 3880 RT 6/70 21 1966 Shelby GT-350S 14.00/102 289 4V**auto 2950 MT 8/66 22 1962 Corvette 14.00/100 327 4V 4-spd 3080 CL 5/62 23 1964 289 Cobra 14.00/98 289 4V 4-spd 2206 CL 8/64 24 1968 Hemi GTX 14.00/96.5 426 8V auto 3950 CL 2/68 25 1968 'Cuda 440 14.01/103.8 440 4V auto 3405 CL 6/69 26 1961 Impala SS 14.02/98.1 409 4V 4-spd 3736 MT 27 1969 Torino Cobra 14.04/100.6 428 4V auto 3890 CD 1/69 28 1969 Super Bee 14.04/99.5 383 4V auto 3765 CD 1/69 29 1966 GTO 14.05/105.1 389 6V 4-spd 3620 CD 3/66 30 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 14.09/102.9 429 4V 4-spd 3560 CL 6/69 31 1967 GTO 14.09/101 400 4V 4-spd 3445 MT 1/67 32 1965 Corvette 14.10/104 396 4V 4-spd 3260 CL 8/65 33 1969 Grand Prix SJ 14.10/95.3 428 4V auto 4180 CL 2/69 34 1972 454 Corvette 14.10/93 454 4V auto 3725 MT 1/72 35 1969 SC/Rambler 14.14/100.9 390 4V 4-spd 3160 RT ?/69 36 1970 LT-1 Corvette 14.17/102.2 350 4V 4-spd 3710 CL 8/70 37 1970 442 Olds 14.20/102.1 455 4V 4-spd 3887 RT 3/70 38 1967 Dana Camaro 14.20/102 427 4V 4-spd 3368 CL 4/67 39 1970 Z/28 Camaro 14.20/100.3 350 4V auto 3640 CD 5/70 40 1968 Firebird 400 HO 14.20/100.3 400 4V auto 3550 CD 3/68 41 1964 Corvette 14.20/100 327FI***4-spd 3180 MT 9/64 42 1962 Corvette 14.20/99 283 4V 4-spd 3040 CL 9/61 43 1970 SuperBird 14.26/103.7 440 4V na 3841 RT 4/70 44 1967 Fairlane GTA 14.26/99 390 4V auto 3640 CD 3/66 45 1969 Road Runner 14.35/101.6 383 4V 4-spd 3630 MT 2/69 46 1970 Duster 340 14.39/97.2 340 4V 4-spd 3368 CD 2/70 47 1962 Dodge Ramcharger 14.40/101 413 8V auto 3440 MT 8/62 48 1970 'Cuda Six Pack 14.40/100 440 6V 4-spd 3720 MT 5/70 49 1967 Firebird 400 14.40/100 400 4V 4-spd 3598 CD 3/67 50 1971 GTX 14.40/98.7 440 4V auto 3852 RT12/70 * Aluminum Heads ** Paxton Supercharged *** Fuel Injected MT=Motor Trend CD=Car & Driver CL=Car Life RT=Road & Track [ Information is taken from table in article "The 50 Fastest Musclecars" ] from Nov 1984 issue of CAR REVIEW Magazine. "There is no substitute for CUBIC INCHES..." Jim Hoo Teltone Corporation, Kirkland, Wa. => !uw-beaver!teltone!hoo (By the way, I own one of those.... "3rd Fastest".)
mrl@drutx.UUCP (LongoMR) (11/30/84)
<> >All this "blow your doors off" business is getting a little boring. We all >know that the Muscle car era produced big and fast V8s and that everyone who >has one thinks theirs is the fastest, but I'm getting tired of hearing the >same tune ("My car is faster than yours is..." sung to your favorite dog food >commercial). Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the finesse of some >of the older classics, body styles today (compared to yesterday and future >trends), technological improvements (plastic/alloy rims), etc. > >Fast cars are fun (I've had a couple myself) but lets hear something new. My feelings are... The "blow your doors off" stuff is part of the glamor of owning an old car. I would suspect that there is no one who is saying "my car is better than yours, so yours is a piece of junk", they are just saying "my car is better than yours", which is OK. There are several cars that I can think of and I have read about which the Shelby could run away from, but I still like to hear about them and wouldn't mind owning a few. My preference comes from many years of interest in the Mustangs. They ain't the greatest, but I love 'em! I remember when Ford first introduced the mustang, they were being laughed at and scoffed by gear heads of the day! That has changed. If you own a nice older car, one of the things you want to do is brag a little. What better forum is there to brag in than one that gets distributed to people who have the same interest. BTW... There have been about 4 articles with the "blow your doors off" theme in them, and none of them had the phrase as the main theme of the article. I don't mind reading about Toyota Celicas and Dodge Daytonas, I just want a little diversity. The recent articles about old metal have been refreshing! "Keep those cards and letters coming!" Mark Longo AT&T ISL Denver P.S. If you have any observations about the finesse of some of the older classics, body styles today (compared to yesterday and future trends), technological improvements (plastic/alloy rims), etc., please feel free to post them. I, for one, would be interested in your observations.
marcum@rhino.UUCP (Alan M. Marcum) (11/30/84)
Ah, NOW we're talking! I found the love of antique cars while
growing up -- my father restored a 33 Plymouth PC Convertible
Coupe and a 33 Chrysler CT Royal Eight Convertible Coupe (both
frame-ups). In addition, he's had a 33 Chrysler Imperial CQ
Convertibel Sedan, and a 32 Chrysler CL Custom Imperial
Convertibel Coupe (hmm, do we detect a slight pattern here?).
All the work Dad did on these gave me a real appreciation for the
mechanical aspect of the cars, for the beauty, for the effort.
We had marvelous times going to shows, trapsing though flea
markets and junk yards, examining paint chips for EXACT color
shades.
Contrary to perhaps popular belief, a well restored car from this
era is actually a true joy to drive. The 33 CT will cruise all
day on the highway at 50-55, handles well (no, its NOT a sports
car, NOT a BMW, but it sure is pleasant), and is gobs of fun to
drive. (The 32 CL would cruise nicely at 60-65, actually...!)
Learning to shift without synchromesh is actually rather useful,
even in today's cars -- and you've no choice when driving one of
these.
Any other experiences in the antique car hobby?
Ahh, the sweet memories of my first sight of a Duesenberg SJ....!
--
Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California
...!{ihnp4, ucbvax!amd, hpda, sri-unix, harpo}!fortune!rhino!marcumprg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) (11/30/84)
[] O.K. Jim... My car's prettier than your car!! :-) Phil Gunsul AT&T/CP
dionne@mcnc.UUCP (Russell Dionne) (12/01/84)
While I am very interested in current production sports cars, I find the charm of older "special" cars irresistable. At the moment, I own a 1970 Volvo P-1800 and a 1973 Fiat Spyder. When I drive either of these cars, I share the experiences of others on the net who begin conversations with strangers solely on the basis of my driving a "special" car in pristine condition. I read CAR and DRIVER to keep up with the new, but Hemmings Motor News to consider my next purchase. Incidentally, does anyone on the net know of good sources of old automobile advertising posters?
mike@amdcad.UUCP (Mike Parker) (12/04/84)
> Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the finesse of some > of the older classics, body styles today (compared to yesterday > and future trends) > I have something to say about the finesse of some of the older classics. "Will someone please give me 15K$ or so, I want a vintage 230SL very much. Thanks in advance for your contribution" Mike @ AMD p.s. Please no flames, I think the car is really sharp and don't care if it's slow or undependable or anything else.
tpl@scbhq.UUCP (12/10/84)
> <> > > I have read a multitude of articles on what the netters consider to > be true sports cars. I have noticed that most all of the opinions lean > towards new cars. I don't wish to imply that newer cars are not nice, OLD CAR LOVERS? HOW ABOUT 'TRUCKS'!! With all this talk of "old and Antique" cars going around, it seems appropriate to me that some discussion of "trucks" ought to be included. I know I'm not the only redneck who drives a truck on the network (I drive on the hi-way) so how about it? I'd like to hear from those who have souped up or somehow done restoration/rebuilding work on pickups, whether small size (S-10, Ranger's, Datsun, Toyota, etc.). I'm mostly interested in full-size trucks. I've got a '75 Chevy full 3/4 ton truck and I just got through rebuilding a 350 engine for it. By the way, working on full size trucks is a somewhat easier task just because of the availability of room under the hood. I've found that trucks don't normally "blow the doors off" all the other guys, but they can be quite a sight when done right. I've just begun to re-do the interior and a paint job comes sometime after Uncle Sam's payback. Rebuilding the engine was a blast - TRW mains and rod bearings, bored .030 with Sterling piston's (flat top), an Edelbrock 2101 cam and 2102 matching intake manifold with existing 1 5/8 headers. I rebuilt the stock Quadrajet and put a B&M shift kit in the Turbo 350 transmission (Ihad rebuilt it 2 years ago in the garage.) I'd like to hear from other's who drive pickups and like to sport 'em up. I'm particularly looking for information on designing an overhead console and any electrical wiring problems that one may have to watch out for. Tom Lefebvre South Central Bell 205-321-2846 or on the net
segre@uicsl.UUCP (12/02/85)
I own a 1960 Austin Healey "Bugeye" Sprite, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. It has the following characteristics: 1. 948 roaring CC's 2. 0-60 in one week or less 3. leaks like a sieve in the rain 4. interior (/exterior?) noise level = takeoff noise level of a 747 5. mean mileage between failures = approx. 20 mi. 6. great gas mileage when the carbs aren't leaking 7. and, of course, an extensive dealer network for those spare parts! I paid $1500 for it 5 years ago, and have since spent about $1000 in parts. It's in fairly good shape, at least at first glance. Once you get to know it you realize where all the problems are. Just when I convince myself to get rid of it, you get one of those beautiful sunny days - driving this thing around with the top down does attract its share of attention, what with those frog-like headlights and smile. Keep your Shelbys - this is a Real Car.