melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (02/09/91)
The Unix man pages and the compiler have a more limited audience than Webster, etc. There wasn't enough room on the 105MB drive to include everything, so the C compiler and friends were omitted. You can buy the extend release of 2.0 on floppies, or you can copy the compiler and man pages from someone with the entire release. Aren't the man pages available with the Berkeley sources on uunet.uu.net? Does anyone have the NeXT source to the 2.0 compiler? Can it be posted to an anonymous ftp site? -Mike
ice@wang.com (Fredrik Nyman) (02/09/91)
chet@Advansoft.COM (Chet Wood) writes:
[Criticism about the basic OS lacking cc, man pages etc deleted]
All NeXTs come with the base OS preinstalled, BUT only machines with
340+ MB disk or more have the extended software set (which includes
Objective C, C++, Interface Builder, man pages etc) installed.
What your friend can (and should :-) do is to just copy whatever parts
he wants from the extended software set. Disk space permitting, he
could just install the whole extended software set.
--
Disclaimer: Wang doesn't care about my opinions, so why should you?
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USnail: Wang Labs, Inc., M/S 019-490, One Industrial Ave., Lowell, MA 01851ddj@zardoz.club.cc.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) (02/09/91)
In article <CHET.91Feb8141831@comet.Advansoft.COM> chet@Advansoft.COM (Chet Wood) writes: >no wonder the machine was so cheap. half-unix. caveat emptor. The 105 meg NeXTStations only come with a small part of the software, because not all of it will fit on such a small disk. Your friend is licensed for the whole distribution, including the C and C++ compilers. All that you need to do is find somone who has the stuff and put it on your machine somehow. It's legal. Oh, if you delete Webster you have plenty of room for the man pages and the compiler and libraries (but you probably don't want the profiled libraries -- they're huge and most people don't use them often). You probably want to pick up at least 200 meg of external disk space though, if you can get it (not vital but *real* nice). What's this "caveat emptor"? NeXT was telling everybody about this from the very begining. The 105/20 meg machines gets a dinky distribution but full license, while the 300/400 meg machines get the full distribution. -- Doug DeJulio ddj@zardoz.club.cc.cmu.edu
jacob@gore.com (Jacob Gore) (02/10/91)
/ comp.sys.next / ddj@zardoz.club.cc.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) / Feb 9, 1991 / > if you delete > Webster you have plenty of room for the man pages and the compiler and > libraries (but you probably don't want the profiled libraries -- > they're huge and most people don't use them often). And don't forget /usr/include. Jacob -- Jacob Gore Jacob@Gore.Com boulder!gore!jacob
chet@Advansoft.COM (Chet Wood) (02/12/91)
>>>>> On 8 Feb 91 14:18:31, I said:
chet> My friend just got his new Nextstation
[...]
chet> what? no C compiler?
[...]
Well, so far I've gotten 22 replies by mail. Thanks to all for their
kind (and some not-so-kind) replies.
I'd like to apologize for some mistakes in my post. First, I was a
little steamed up when I wrote the article. I should have cooled off a
little. Second, I posted "blind," having never read comp.sys.next. If
I had read it, I would have found some clues. But on the other hand,
the people that responded gave some specific useful information ( as
well as some hilarious flammage) that I wouldn't have otherwise
gotten.
Some people thought it was unreasonable for me to be upset about the
fact that my friend's machine came without a C compiler or man pages.
I should have stated more explicitly that this was a 200MB machine.
If it had been a 100MB machine, I probably would have figured out that
they left this stuff off for space reasons. But with over 100MB of
free space, it really wasn't that clear to me why the stuff wasn't
there.
Thanks again.
chet.
--
Chet Wood ~ (408)727-3357 X269
chet@Advansoft.Com . Advansoft Research Corporation
arc!chet@apple.COM . 4301 Great America Parkway, 6th floor
apple!arc!chet . Santa Clara, CA 95054, USAharoldt@paralandra.yorku.ca (Harold Tomlinson) (02/12/91)
In article <lnaGmsgi@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > The Unix man pages and the compiler have a more limited audience than > Webster, etc. There wasn't enough room on the 105MB drive to include > everything, so the C compiler and friends were omitted. You can buy > the extend release of 2.0 on floppies, or you can copy the compiler > and man pages from someone with the entire release. Aren't the man > pages available with the Berkeley sources on uunet.uu.net? > > Does anyone have the NeXT source to the 2.0 compiler? Can it be > posted to an anonymous ftp site? > > -Mike Thank you for this thread.... Oh well, my plans of buying a Next just got tossed. I'll have to wait until I can afford a bigger disk in order to do any compiles or read the manuals (don't even suggest paper). My gnu-Emacs has a big enough dictionary in it for me. Ganted, I'm not the typical Next- User, I'm into programming and would like to do so with a box that can also be easily used for word-processing, graphics, and sound. From the info in MacWorld, I found out that the 'interface builder' was missing from the NextStation version of the OS, but not what that means EXACTLY. 'Certain utilites' were said to be missing... What 'certain utilities'??? `ls`?? `cc`?? What is the NextStation really good for "out of the box"? Don't get me wrong, I like the Next (think Cube - which I can't afford), but, I want to have a "Unix PC" where pc means personal computer. Okay, I've blathered enough, here is what I WANT, how close does a NextStation come to it??? Want? 0) High res graphics with the ability to display nice scanned images. 1) Sound. Preferably Midi-Stereo. 2) 20 Mips ;) 3) WordPerfect (c) 4) enough information to write my own windowing software for my box. 5) scanner 6) laser printer Need? 0) Unix (preferably Berkley) compatability. 1) a C compiler 2) a Fortran compiler 3) a Lisp interpreter 4) man pages 5) gcc 6) gnu-emacs 7) 2400bps modem and Kermit software 8) support for terminals 9) ability to add more disk later. Okay, I don't really NEED anything.... I might just buy an old Sun (yuk) instead. ====================================================================== === Harold Tomlinson === == Computing and Communications Services == = YORK UNIVERSITY = = haroldt@paralandra.yorku.ca = = 416- 736-5257-33802 = ====================================================================== -- ====================================================================== === Harold Tomlinson === == Computing and Communications Services == = YORK UNIVERSITY = = haroldt@paralandra.yorku.ca = = 416- 736-5257-33802 = ======================================================================
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (02/12/91)
Yes, as someone has already mentioned(Pascal, I think), it would be nice if NeXT shipped everything on the 200MB systems, and let people delete, or move to floppies what they didn't need on the hard disk. Can this be done? (i.e. Is there enough room?) -Mike
lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (Pascal Chesnais) (02/12/91)
In article Re: NeXTstation: where the bleep is cc? Where are the MAN PAGES ?!? haroldt@paralandra.yorku.ca (Harold Tomlinson) of : York Computing Services writes: Thank you for this thread.... Oh well, my plans of buying a Next just got tossed. I'll have to wait until I can afford a bigger disk in order to do any compiles or read the manuals (don't even suggest paper). [... more stuff removed ...] When you buy a 105 Mbyte machine from NeXT it comes prepackaged with what they consider to be a useful machine for the average user. However the average user reading this is probably computer literate. The license with the machine says you can get the rest of the extended release license free (that is to say you have already paid for the right to use it). Next offers the extended release on floppies and OD (i think...) However what they do not offer are scripts to grab parts of the distribution that you want from a friend or a local distributor. This means a lot of hassles getting what you easily. Harold's message was good in that it provided a "grocery list" of functionality he wanted. Right now we have no way of easily serving him. The solution is obvious, someone has to sit down with a full distribution and limited one and write scripts to package useful stuff together. I will probably sit down in the next week or two and start writing some of the obvious ones (compiler, emacs, man pages...) I suggest that others sit down and do the same, and we put these scripts on the archive servers with the standard disclaimers. pasc
ice@wang.com (Fredrik Nyman) (02/13/91)
haroldt@paralandra.yorku.ca (Harold Tomlinson) writes: > From the info in MacWorld, I found out that the 'interface builder' was >missing from the NextStation version of the OS, but not what that means >EXACTLY. 'Certain utilites' were said to be missing... What 'certain >utilities'??? `ls`?? `cc`?? What is the NextStation really good for >"out of the box"? You can run WriteNow and look things up in Webster's :-) Most of the tools that are aimed at programmers (rather than users) went into the extended release of NeXT OS. To me this makes a *lot* of sense - people who get the 105MB NeXT-stations (who are going to run WP, WriteNow etc) don't have to throw away tools they'd never use anyway, and few developers would settle for less than 300 MB disk. What model of the NeXT-station were you going to get anyway? The 105 MB model *really* doesn't have enough disk to be usable for software development. The 300MB+ models come with a full OS preloaded. If you were to settle for a 200MB model, you would have ~100 MB free. This more than enough room for the C compiler, include files, libraries etc. > Okay, I've blathered enough, here is what I WANT, how close does a >NextStation come to it??? >Want? 0) High res graphics with the ability to display nice scanned images. You get megapixel resolution on an 17" CRT. > 1) Sound. Preferably Midi-Stereo. CD-quality sound. No MIDI port, but 3rd party vendors are probably working on that :-) > 2) 20 Mips ;) "Just" 15 MIPS. So sorry. :-) > 3) WordPerfect (c) A NeXT version is available. > 6) laser printer The low-cost 400 dpi NeXT laserprinter is available. >Need? 0) Unix (preferably Berkley) compatability. NeXT's OS is based on a Mach kernel. I *believe* NeXT OS is more BSDish than SysVish, but I'm not completely sure. > 1) a C compiler Bundled in the extended OS release. > 3) a Lisp interpreter Was bundled in OS 1.0, apparently unbundled in 2.0 :-( > 4) man pages Bundled in the extended OS release. > 5) gcc Bundled in the extended OS release I *THINK* > 6) gnu-emacs Bundled in the extended OS release. > 7) 2400bps modem and Kermit software You can use pretty much any external 2400 bps modem. Kermit is available. > 8) support for terminals Two serial ports. Built-in Ethernet ports (thinnet, 10base2), so you could get an Ethernet terminal server :-) > 9) ability to add more disk later. You have a SCSI port on the machine, so you can add external SCSI disks. Of course, you can also get rid of the internal hard disk and get one with greater capacity. -- Disclaimer: Wang doesn't care about my opinions, so why should you? Internet: <ice@jasmine.wang.COM> <ice@wang.COM> <ice@emil.csd.uu.se> BITNET: <ice@DRYCAS> <ice@SEARN> <ice@SEQZ51> (in order of preference) USnail: Wang Labs, Inc., M/S 019-490, One Industrial Ave., Lowell, MA 01851