melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (02/04/91)
I've been hearing A LOT of complaints about the price of the NeXTstation Color. The color NeXT's are so expensive because of the monitors. They're $2000 after the educational discount. Does anyone know if you can connect a cheap color monitor the the NeXTstation Color? *** I get the feeling that many people would choose a crappy 13" color monitor over the 17" grey-scale monitor. *** If this is true, NeXT might want to consider the non-intuitive thing and sell low-resolution color monitors. There a too many Ted Turners in the world to overlook the low-end color market. -Mike
mldemsey@cs.arizona.edu (Matthew L. Demsey) (02/04/91)
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > I've been hearing A LOT of complaints about the price of the > NeXTstation Color. The color NeXT's are so expensive because of the > monitors. They're $2000 after the educational discount. Does anyone > know if you can connect a cheap color monitor the the NeXTstation > Color? *** I get the feeling that many people would choose a crappy > 13" color monitor over the 17" grey-scale monitor. *** If this is > true, NeXT might want to consider the non-intuitive thing and sell > low-resolution color monitors. There a too many Ted Turners... etc.. what people seem to be missing here is that the microphone input, keyboard input, and mouse input are all controlled through the monitor - i don't really see how you expect to control those things if you by an el-cheapo monitor... now if some one would manufacture a compatible cheaper, then Next might be inspired to lower their prices, but who knows if this is feasible - Next doesn't seem to be too capitalistic, but this is coming from an ex-Mac owner and after owning a Mac, 10 bucks for bread doesn't seen too capitalistic.. is it Next innovation or Next has you by the testes? i dunno Loki
lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (Pascal Chesnais) (02/04/91)
Don't buy cheap crappy color monitors!! you will be depriving all those amiga and apple owners of what they deserve!!! However if you are insisting on getting a "yugo" of a monitor then the specifications for the color monitors are widely known. from the sales brochure: MegaPixel Color Display - - 1120 x 832 resolution - 68Hz refresh rate, non-interlaced (I did not find a horizontal scan rate, twiddle your monitor until the aspect ratio seems right) Connector - 13W3-style triple-coaxial (don't get 10WD40 as a substitute for connector, even though it is less expensive) By the way, if you plan on using a two headed display, you probably want to have two monitors which have the same size. This makes moving a window across two windows visually pleasing. Unless NextStep has provisions for different DPI on multiple display heads... pasc
zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) (02/04/91)
In article <775@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> mldemsey@cs.arizona.edu (Matthew L. Demsey) writes: > what people seem to be missing here is that the microphone input, >keyboard input, and mouse input are all controlled through the monitor - >i don't really see how you expect to control those things if you by >an el-cheapo monitor... > >Loki While the microphone input, keyboard, etc are controlled through the monitor on the mono NeXTStation, I believe this is not the case for the color machines. The color machines have a separate device that controls those devices, and then has a Sony Trinitron as the color monitor. Any color monitor that would support the resolution, frequencies, and has the correct type of inputs (RGB and composite sync) should work. Resolution is 1120x832 The separate device is part no. N4004 Integrated monophonic speaker and microphone. Note: I'm not sure that I would want to try to save a lot of money by buying a cheaper monitor. The cheaper monitors would probably be smaller, and with a faster phosphour. I have tried to use a 14" monitor at 800x600, (on a PC). It was hard to read, and seemed to flicker unless the brightness was turned down. Wish list: What I would like is a way to have the NeXT allow me to run NeXTStep on my IBMPC. That way, I would have access to color for the occasional time I want color. Andrew zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu
lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (Pascal Chesnais) (02/04/91)
In article Re: Cheap color, HEY NeXT (was: GETTING A NEXT melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) of : Penn State Computer Science writes: *** I get the feeling that many people would choose a crappy 13" color monitor over the 17" grey-scale monitor. *** -Mike 2000$ you mentioned is for a *color* monitor the monochrome monitor at MIT is well under $1000. pasc
izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) (02/04/91)
In article <775@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> mldemsey@cs.arizona.edu (Matthew L. Demsey) writes: > > melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >> monitors. They're $2000 after the educational discount. Does anyone >> know if you can connect a cheap color monitor the the NeXTstation >> Color? *** I get the feeling that many people would choose a crappy >> 13" color monitor over the 17" grey-scale monitor. *** If this is > what people seem to be missing here is that the microphone input, >keyboard input, and mouse input are all controlled through the monitor - These signals do not go through the Color minitor. That's why NeXT has the sound box for "1-headed" color systems. You don't have to use NeXT Color monitor, which is SONY GDM-1601. I heard that NeXT might switch supplier for the color display to Phillips because SONY can't supply them in the quantity NeXT requires (I could be wrong. I like that SONY monitor). You might try to get GDM-1601 from the open market, but I doubt it is available for less than $1500 now. Any RGB monitor which supports 64kHz Horitontal scan rate, and 60-70 vertical scan rate (non-interlaced) can be used with the NeXT color systems, although you might have to tweak a few trimmers inside the monitor to get it to sync properly, and to adjust aspect ratios right. All color monitor manufacturers have at least one model which operate at these scan rates. Unlike SCSI hard disk drives, and memory, I don't think NeXT is charging a rediculus amount of money for Color displays (at least with edu discount). One thing is certain for me. I do NOT want NeXT to come out with any display resolution lower than the current standard. And I am sure they won't. -- Izumi Ohzawa [ $@Bg_78^=;(J ] USMail: University of California, 360 Minor Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720 Telephone: (415) 642-6440 Fax: (415) 642-3323 Internet: izumi@violet.berkeley.edu NeXTmail: izumi@pinoko.berkeley.edu
izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) (02/04/91)
In article <1991Feb3.230830.15748@agate.berkeley.edu> I, izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: > >Any RGB monitor which supports 64kHz Horitontal scan rate, and >60-70 vertical scan rate (non-interlaced) can be used with >the NeXT color systems, although you might have to tweak a few >trimmers inside the monitor to get it to sync properly, and to >adjust aspect ratios right. One note, because some people quoted, as the requirement for alternate monitors: 1120x832 pixels, 68Hz non-interlaced frame rate. Well, those numbers are not the critical numbers. If you look for monitors in the market citing the above numbers, I will guarantee you that you will not find any monitor which matches those numbers. The key number is 64kHz horizontal scan rate. Ignore what the pixel resolution says. SONY GDM-1601, which NeXT has been using currently, is specified as 1280x1024 pixels 60Hz non-interlaced, if you look at the spec sheet from SONY. -- Izumi Ohzawa [ $@Bg_78^=;(J ] USMail: University of California, 360 Minor Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720 Telephone: (415) 642-6440 Fax: (415) 642-3323 Internet: izumi@violet.berkeley.edu NeXTmail: izumi@pinoko.berkeley.edu
barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) (02/04/91)
(Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >I've been hearing A LOT of complaints about the price of the >NeXTstation Color. I agree! They should be free upgrades for those who bought original cubes :-) > The color NeXT's are so expensive because of the monitors. > can you connect a cheap color monitor the the NeXTstation Color? I don't know for sure, but I do know the monitors are the same as those used on the 16" color SPARCs (Sony Trinitron, If I recall, painted black of course). (Whereas the monochrome monitor is built special for Next.) Thus I would bet any monitor compatible with a SPARC would work on the NeXT. Further, since the flood of cheap SPARC clones will hit the market this spring (one of the cheapest coming from a major monitor manufacturer, which is how they cut their price) I bet you could get a less expensive color SPARC monitor and use that on the NeXT. Or, next may realize this and contract for a cheaper monitor. By the way, our campus rep said something to me about NeXT changing the monitor on the color machines, and also offering a 21'' option. They will have a color on display here at UCLA tomorrow, BTW. >NeXT might want to consider the non-intuitive thing and sell >low-resolution color monitors. They might want to, but they can't. The legal agreement they signed with Apple says all NeXT monitors must be mega-pixel (to avoid infringing on the Mac market). > There are too many Ted Turners in the >world to overlook the low-end color market Hmmm...I bet Ted could afford a NeXTDimension :-) -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet)
declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) (02/04/91)
In article <1991Feb3.233555.17860@agate.berkeley.edu>, izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: > SONY GDM-1601, which NeXT has been using currently, is specified > as 1280x1024 pixels 60Hz non-interlaced, if you look at the > spec sheet from SONY. For various reasons, NeXT has opted not to ship the Sony 16-inch monitor, replacing it with a Philips 17-inch one. They've also added a Hitachi 21-inch display for only $1,000 (list) delta. NeXT says the quality and reliability of both new monitors are very high. Both will ship this month. Don't go with a cheap monitor; it's just not worth it. Declan McCullagh Independent NeXT Developer
eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb3.230830.15748@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >One thing is certain for me. I do NOT want NeXT to come out >with any display resolution lower than the current standard. Hear, hear! >And I am sure they won't. Surprise!!! In article <Feb.3.21.32.46.1991.28219@remus.rutgers.edu> declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) writes: >For various reasons, NeXT has opted not to ship the Sony 16-inch >monitor, replacing it with a Philips 17-inch one. They've also added >a Hitachi 21-inch display for only $1,000 (list) delta. Hey kids!! Guess what 92dpi on a 17-inch monitor becomes on a 21-incher? That's right! 72dpi, just like a Macintoy!!! Those of you who've been asking for Mac emulation, I guess some of your prayers have been answered. You can now have the same lousy display quality! >Don't go with a cheap monitor; it's just not worth it. Neither is 21 inches, except for the visually impaired. -=EPS=-
edwardj@microsoft.UUCP (Edward JUNG) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb3.225400.29316@Neon.Stanford.EDU> zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) writes: > > While the microphone input, keyboard, etc are controlled through the >monitor on the mono NeXTStation, I believe this is not the case for the >color machines. The color machines have a separate device that controls >those devices, and then has a Sony Trinitron as the color monitor. > You are correct; on the color machines all microphone, keyboard and sound output is via the Sound Box. >Wish list: What I would like is a way to have the NeXT allow me to run >NeXTStep on my IBMPC. That way, I would have access to color for the >occasional time I want color. Talk to IBM and tell them to get their butts in gear regarding getting NextStep on the PC, if that's what you want. Certainly IBM will do it if there is a sufficient market (read: $$$) in it. -- Edward Jung Microsoft Corp. My opinions do not reflect any policy of my employer.
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (02/07/91)
In article <Feb.3.21.32.46.1991.28219@remus.rutgers.edu> declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) writes: >For various reasons, NeXT has opted not to ship the Sony 16-inch >monitor, replacing it with a Philips 17-inch one. They've also added >a Hitachi 21-inch display for only $1,000 (list) delta. > >NeXT says the quality and reliability of both new monitors are very >high. Both will ship this month. I have yet to see any monitor that comes even close to Sony's quality. If this should be true I have only one comment: BUHHH! All of our Suns here have Sony monitors and they are great. I have seen a lot of the so called "high-quality" workstation monitors, but none of them are as good as the Sony ones. One thing is sure, if NeXT is not selling Sony monitors, then Sony will be. Too bad that then we will have to settle with the gray case... Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
johankha@tz.wimsey.bc.ca (e_mou) (02/12/91)
I believe the Sound Box is that so-called additional device you mentioned.
drin@nro.cs.athabascau.ca (Adrian Smith) (02/21/91)
smithw@hamblin.math.byu.edu (Dr. William V. Smith) writes: > While this does not solve the complaints about color prices, > an added bit of info is that NeXT is offering two more color > monitor sizes: 19 in. and 21 in. > The NeXTdimension is *still* scheduled for March I hear. > Several NeXT people told me this, so take it for what its worth. > -Bill > -- However, I heard it today from our campus rep (he tends to get things right) that NeXT has a *major* problem with the Dimension board. The C-Cube chip (real-time video compression) has a bug, and - doesn't work!!! They're in a quandry as to whether to: 1) Ship the boards with a hole to drop the chip into when the bug is fixed. 2) Ship the boards with the bad chip and give free upgrades later. 3) Revamp the board so there *is* no chip. 4) Don't ship at all until the chip is fixed. Personally, I think 32-bit PostScript colour, even without video compression, is better than no colour at all... -drin