jnicolas@athena.mit.edu (Julien J Nicolas) (02/05/91)
Hi everyone! This is mostly aimed at old cube owners...Now that most of the third party software and upgrades is going to be distributed on diskettes, I am curious to find out what old cube owners are doing: buying an external floppy disk drive (e.g. the PLI drive at $500), installing an internal drive (which would require getting a new face plate -NeXT seems unwilling to provide them), using the E-net to download the software from other machines, waiting for something better to come along :), or not doing anything... What is the general opinion? -- ______________________________________________________________________________ Julian Nicolas Internet: jnicolas@athena.mit.edu Phone: (617) 621 0443 (Cambridge)
cyliax@ecn.purdue.edu (Ingo Cyliax) (02/06/91)
In article <1991Feb5.153658.24248@athena.mit.edu>, jnicolas@athena.mit.edu (Julien J Nicolas) writes: |> Hi everyone! |> |> This is mostly aimed at old cube owners...Now that most of the third |> party software and upgrades is going to be distributed on diskettes, I |> am curious to find out what old cube owners are doing: buying an |> external floppy disk drive (e.g. the PLI drive at $500), installing an |> internal drive (which would require getting a new face plate -NeXT seems |> unwilling to provide them), using the E-net to download the software |> from other machines, waiting for something better to come along :), or |> not doing anything... What is the general opinion? I have been using an external SCSI floppy drive, which I assembled myself using a Teac 235JS-401 2.88Mb SCSI floppy and some powersupply/case I just happened to have laying around. I also had to write some software to init and format the drive as well as being able to read the drive raw (i.e. without a NeXT filesystem on it). This worked OK under 1.0, but I just installed 2.0 last night and I'm trying to figure out how to tell the "automounter" not to poll the SCSI floppy and try to mount the drive as soon as I insert the floppy. It also wants to initiliase the drive if it doesn't contain a NeXT filesystem. This of course fails, since the NeXT SCSI driver doesn't know about this particular type of drive and then tries to spit it back out. I'll have to dig into this. If you're interested, let me know and I might post/E-Mail some more info. after I get it all running under 2.0. -ingo -- /* Ingo Cyliax, Home: (317) 474-0031, E-Mail: cyliax@flaubert.laf.in.US */
tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (02/06/91)
In article <1991Feb5.153658.24248@athena.mit.edu> jnicolas@athena.mit.edu (Julien J Nicolas) writes: >am curious to find out what old cube owners are doing: buying an >external floppy disk drive (e.g. the PLI drive at $500), installing an >internal drive (which would require getting a new face plate -NeXT seems >unwilling to provide them), using the E-net to download the software [etc...] If NeXT would sell the damn faceplate from the new NeXTs (selling the new drive bay chassis wouldn't be bad either...), I would buy an internal floppy. Unfortunately, this ain't so, thus I'm--as well as other older cube owners--SOL and can't go through this route. So, I will, reluctantly, buy an external floppy drive...yuck, how unpleasing. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) (02/06/91)
In article <1991Feb06.034803.5577@ecst.csuchico.edu> tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kenneth K.F. Lui) writes: >In article <1991Feb5.153658.24248@athena.mit.edu> jnicolas@athena.mit.edu (Julien J Nicolas) writes: >>am curious to find out what old cube owners are doing: buying an >>external floppy disk drive (e.g. the PLI drive at $500), installing an >>internal drive (which would require getting a new face plate -NeXT seems >>unwilling to provide them), using the E-net to download the software [wants NeXT to see faceplates from the new cubes] Just for the general awareness, I finally got an answer for my question: "Do third party external drives function the same as the new internal drives from an OS/user point-of-view." I called a couple of manufacturers, didn't get my calls returned (I didn't try too hard, actually) and ended up calling NeXT. The answer is "yes." These 3rd party drives and the NeXT internal drive are both SCSI devices. (This is different from EVERY system I've seen, including Suns and Macs, but it certainly makes sense.) As usual, the 1-800 staff at NeXT has hyper-efficient, friendly, and all other nice things. - -John H. Osborn -osborn@cs.utexas.edu
garnett@cs.utexas.edu (John William Garnett) (02/10/91)
In article <1991Feb06.034803.5577@ecst.csuchico.edu> tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kenneth K.F. Lui) writes: >In article <1991Feb5.153658.24248@athena.mit.edu> jnicolas@athena.mit.edu (Julien J Nicolas) writes: >>am curious to find out what old cube owners are doing: buying an >>external floppy disk drive (e.g. the PLI drive at $500), installing an [a few lines deleted] > >If NeXT would sell the damn faceplate from the new NeXTs (selling >the new drive bay chassis wouldn't be bad either...), I would buy >an internal floppy. Unfortunately, this ain't so, thus I'm--as >well as other older cube owners--SOL and can't go through this >route. So, I will, reluctantly, buy an external floppy >drive...yuck, how unpleasing. > I agree with the above poster - having an external floppy drive would be aesthetically unpleasing. However, considering the general trends regarding software distribution on opticals and 2.88 floppy drives, floppiless cube owners will be left in the cold if they do not purchase a floppy drive. I too would like to purchase a new-style drive chassis and the new-style faceplate for an old-style cube. Is there any technical reason why this is not feasible? The benefits are obvious - four half-height device mount-points instead of two full-height mount points (which drops to one full-height mount-point if you have an optical drive) and a way to install an _internal_ floppy. Enough people have stated a desire for such an upgrade that I believe an official NeXTian response (to comp.sys.next) is warranted. -- John Garnett University of Texas at Austin garnett@cs.utexas.edu Department of Computer Science Austin, Texas
madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) (02/11/91)
John William Garnett craves: >> I too would like to purchase a new-style drive chassis and the >> new-style faceplate for an old-style cube. Me too. Oh NeXT, puhleeeeeze sell me one. I have this connector on my 040 upgrade board that is simply *begging* to have a floppy connected to it. And there's this Intel 82077 floppy controller with no one to talk to execpt the 5V power supply. Poor thing. One problem I have encountered is that the drive the NeXT uses, the Sony MPX-111N, is not available from distributors or Sony itself. The "X" apparently means "experimental". If I could buy one, I would and bring the case to the shop and cut a hole on the left where two expansion boards might go. Big empty space that I'll not be likely to use anyway. (Right now, my two full height slots are full, but if I could get a new faceplate, etc., I would buy a half-height hard disk.) I don't really believe the claims that the PLI drive will work *exactly* like the internal drive. One reason is that there is an ioctl request to the floppy driver to execute arbitary 82077 commands directly (see the man page fd(4)), and I would be skecptical that the external SCSI drive would support this correctly, even if it is using an 82077. >> Enough people have stated a desire for such an upgrade that I >> believe an official NeXTian response (to comp.sys.next) is >> warranted. I'm raising both hands, hoping NeXT will count me twice. How 'bout it NeXT? Mark Adler madler@pooh.caltech.edu
jfreem@uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman) (02/11/91)
There are two issues that, immediatly, come to mind on the idea of adding floppies to an old cube. 1) Most people have an OD and a full hight hard drive in their cube. This means that there is no space in the box for the floppy. So, you get a choice of having your hard driver external or the floppy external. Since the hard driver is a boot device, you will probably want it mounted in the case. Either way, you still have an external box. 2) How many people would be willing to pay $$$ for the necessary panels and hardware for the changes? You will need some new sheet metal for the mount points. And, you will need a new black faceplate for the front. Swapping the sheet metal attached to the power supply, probably does not count as a user servicable thing so a the repair center's might have to be used. I have no idea what the two pieces of metal would cost but I can imagine that most people would probably "just say no" An alternate plan, might be to fabricate a new piece of sheet metal that allows the floppy to be mounted in one of the slots. Of course that means you'd have to reach around back every time. Not too good either. >>If NeXT would sell the damn faceplate from the new NeXTs (selling >>the new drive bay chassis wouldn't be bad either...), I would buy >>an internal floppy. Unfortunately, this ain't so, thus I'm--as >>well as other older cube owners--SOL and can't go through this >>route. So, I will, reluctantly, buy an external floppy >>drive...yuck, how unpleasing. >> > >I agree with the above poster - having an external floppy drive >would be aesthetically unpleasing. However, considering the >general trends regarding software distribution on opticals >and 2.88 floppy drives, floppiless cube owners will be left in >the cold if they do not purchase a floppy drive. > >I too would like to purchase a new-style drive chassis and the >new-style faceplate for an old-style cube. Is there any technical >reason why this is not feasible? The benefits are obvious - four >half-height device mount-points instead of two full-height mount >points (which drops to one full-height mount-point if you have an >optical drive) and a way to install an _internal_ floppy. -- Joe Freeman jfreem@uncecs.edu The opinions espressed here are my own and are not shared by my employer or anyone else I know of. Flames can be mailed to me or routed to /dev/null.
madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) (02/12/91)
Joe Freeman figures: >> 1) Most people have an OD and a full hight hard drive in their cube. I've been thinking about getting a new hard drive anyway for more space, and if I do, I'll get a half-height so there's room for a floppy. I figure I can sell my genuine NeXT-blessed 330Mto some poor OD-only owner. >> 2) How many people would be willing to pay $$$ for the necessary >> panels and hardware for the changes? Me for one. I'll bet the drive (when available) will go for about $200 to $250. This leaves about $200 or more budgeted for the faceplate if you compare to $500 for a PLI drive that's probably not as compatible as an internal drive. And $200 ought to be more than enough for the hardware. Mark Adler madler@pooh.caltech.edu
jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (Joseph Chin) (02/12/91)
Count me in ... Although my Cube has two full height devices in the drive bay, I would be more than willing to move the 660MB Micropolis to an external case, get a 400MB 1/3 heigh internal hard drive (Connor?) and a NeXT FLOPPY DRIVE. I am willing to pay up to $250US for a NeXT internal floppy drive. The lack of mounting holes is not a problem ... this is the reason why I own a Makita power drill. As for the lack of power connectors ... a Y-connector would solve that problem real quick. So, my friends at NeXT (especially management and marketing), how about it? I know at least five other Cube owners who would be willing to do the same thing. PLEASE sell us the internal floppy drive!!!! :-) Joe jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca -- ************************************************************** * "Kill the body and the head will die" (Hunter S. Thompson) * * NeXT --> The ultimate electronic publishing platform! * ********** Joseph Chin --> jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca *********
tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.120342.27349@uncecs.edu> jfreem@uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman) writes: >2) How many people would be willing to pay $$$ for the necessary > panels and hardware for the changes? You will need some new > sheet metal for the mount points. And, you will need a new black > faceplate for the front. Swapping the sheet metal attached to the > power supply, probably does not count as a user servicable thing > so a the repair center's might have to be used. I would be willing to pay $$$. Joe, you make it sound as if the sheet metal would be built from scratch. Do you mean this or having the dealer order and install the part in question? I would prefer to get real NeXT parts over user-made for the faceplate; however, for the drive mount, as long as it's sturdy... >An alternate plan, might be to fabricate a new piece of sheet metal that >allows the floppy to be mounted in one of the slots. In my opinion, this is unacceptable. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) (02/14/91)
In article <1934@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca> jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (Joseph Chin) writes: >Count me in ... > >Although my Cube has two full height devices in the drive bay, I would be >more than willing to move the 660MB Micropolis to an external case, get a >400MB 1/3 heigh internal hard drive (Connor?) and a NeXT FLOPPY DRIVE. I am >willing to pay up to $250US for a NeXT internal floppy drive. > >The lack of mounting holes is not a problem ... this is the reason why I >own a Makita power drill. As for the lack of power connectors ... a Y-connector >would solve that problem real quick. > >So, my friends at NeXT (especially management and marketing), how about it? >I know at least five other Cube owners who would be willing to do the same >thing. PLEASE sell us the internal floppy drive!!!! Make that six. > >:-) Joe >jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca > >-- > ************************************************************** > * "Kill the body and the head will die" (Hunter S. Thompson) * > * NeXT --> The ultimate electronic publishing platform! * > ********** Joseph Chin --> jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca ********* -- /* -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. */ /* For I can only express my own opinions. */ /* */ /* Kent L. Shephard : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com */
ty@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Tyng-Jing Yang) (02/15/91)
> >thing. PLEASE sell us the internal floppy drive!!!! > > Make that six. > > Reserve TWO more for me! Richard Dib AT&T BL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ty> I want internal floppy drive also and Please let us upgrade the new, "right" design Cube case. I mean a Cube case that has no dust problem and a Cube case that could accept new devices from NeXT. I am not happy that the reason will make me to buy an external floppy because I have no choice of buying internal one. To be fair to NeXT, Dust problem of Old cube case finally was solved by providing an internal filter in 2.0 upgrade kit. (correct me if I'm wrong, not receive my upgrade yet) Jing
DWN2@psuvm.psu.edu (02/15/91)
...and one for me! ----Dave----
drin@nro.cs.athabascau.ca (Adrian Smith) (02/16/91)
kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) writes: > Make that six. > > > >:-) Joe > >jchin@van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca > > > >-- Make it seven..
cyliao@eng.umd.edu (Chun-Yao Liao) (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb10.184157.16920@nntp-server.caltech.edu> madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes: >John William Garnett craves: > >>> I too would like to purchase a new-style drive chassis and the >>> new-style faceplate for an old-style cube. > >Me too. Oh NeXT, puhleeeeeze sell me one. >>> Enough people have stated a desire for such an upgrade that I >>> believe an official NeXTian response (to comp.sys.next) is >>> warranted. > >I'm raising both hands, hoping NeXT will count me twice. How 'bout it >NeXT? Here goes my both hands and both feet, so please add me 4 times! I WANT new faceplate! -- cyliao@bagend.eng.umd.edu o Q. Who am I? @wam.umd.edu o A. A NeXTed person with "small" HD and OD @epsl.umd.edu o An Apple // guy xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx o An airplane pilot (I hope)